advice needed,on so many debt collectors after me

[Zimmie]

Hi Michsienna, you say it says 'credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974' just above your signature. What does it say at the top of the form? Does it have all the required information about APR, repayments etc. Have a closer look..you might have an application form.

[djdave]

Michsienna, if there's any way you can scan the document (blanking out all personal details) and post it here, we'll see if we can advise on it's validity.

 

As others have said, they may well have sent you an application, which isn't worth the paper it's written on.

 

[kennyparkroad]

can you scan it in?

[michsienna]

hi there i have a scan machine ive never used, il have ago now:)

[michsienna]

hi everyone,

i dont know how to work the scanner,its one of them 3 in one type things i only use it for printing.

on the agreement i was sent, it does read at the top department of finance capital one application certificate 555.

my name and address are printed on right, (i think it must of been one of them ones you get sent to you in the post asking you if you want one of there credit cards, becouse my name and address was already printed on there.

it then asks for my

title,

date of birth,

time at present address,

home phone number

am i employed

work number

gross annual income

do i want a additional card

length of time with bank

and then it goes on...

do i want to make use of the priority service option for faster processing of my application

am i interested in taking an immediate cash advance

do i want payment protection

then it reads credit card account agreement

credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974

then there is the small print, about being given a pin number, and i confirm all details ive given are correct,and i authorise capital one to search the files of any credit reference agencys,they will add to my record details of capital ones search and my application and this will be seen by other organisations that makes searchs..... ect

then it goes on about credit scoring

and them marketing onfo

on the left is some ones signature (authorised signature of capital one

on the right is my signature, and the date 16th nov 2001,next to the words this is a credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 sign only if you want to be legally bound by its tearms:???: xx

[djdave]

It's an application form. I doubt it's worth the paper it's written on.

 

Does it include any T&Cs? An interest rate? A credit limit? Has it been signed by the lender?

[kennyparkroad]

frequency of repayment?

 

anything like that?

[michsienna]

hi there

it does not say any thing about interest rates or nothing about repayments

there is a signature from some one on it, next to it, it reads authorised sinature of capital one, i guess they were the person who processed it. xx

[stadium_arcadium]

Hi there Michsienna, does it look like this?

[michsienna]

hi there,

yes it does but mine doesent have a picture of the credit card on it, and instead of easy application form 5556, mine reads department of finance capital one application certificate 5555.

all the questions on yours are excatly the same on mine, even the small print is the same. xx

[michsienna]

yours has closing application date 4th jan 2002,

mine reads closing application date 7th dec 2001

[djdave]

Definately an application not an agreement

 

Where you go from here is up to you. They're in default, and should know it. As such they cannot try to enforce the debt.

 

However, it may be worth being proactive in case they later pull something out of the hat.

 

Personally I'd send them a SAR, asking for full details of the data they hold about you including statements and copies of any contracts which they are relying on. If you want, I'll PM the letter I sent MBNA.

 

If that still doesn't yield a valid agreement, I'd say you're safe to assume there isn't one.

 

I say this because if they suddenly magic one up in a future court case, it will look good for you if you've given them every chance to supply one.

 

Of course, many people would advise taking no further action, and I can see advantages in that. It depends how much you're up for the fight!

[michsienna]

i say bring it on! im up for the fight!!!

[PriorityOne]

then it reads credit card account agreement

credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974

 

 

on the left is some ones signature (authorised signature of capital one

on the right is my signature, and the date 16th nov 2001,next to the words this is a credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 sign only if you want to be legally bound by its tearms:???: xx

 

Hi Michsienna... thank you for your PM.

 

Although it reads like an Application Form.... the 2 extracts from your post leave a little doubt in my mind.

 

InKogneeToh is very good at dissecting these Agreements/Application Forms. It might be an idea to PM her.... as I cannot be confident that it isn't an Agreement because of the wording and the 2 sigs.

[stadium_arcadium]

:grin: i say bring it on! im up for the fight!!!

 

Good on ya Michsienna!

 

The scan I posted is what lowell sent my hubby after his CCA request. At the time we thought it was kosher, but after reading around the threads it seems the general census say it is not. I personally am unsure what to do next as we claimed back the charges from Cap One and now have a small outstanding balance left with Lowell.

Good luck with your quest, sounds like you will give them what for!

[stadium_arcadium]

InKogneeToh is very good at dissecting these Agreements/Application Forms. It might be an idea to PM her.... as I cannot be confident that it isn't an Agreement because of the wording and the 2 sigs.

 

I would be interested in InKogneetToh's conclusion, if that wouldn't be too much trouble:)

[gypsumsif]

i do hope its just an agreement you've got there michsienna, that'd be great news for you, and another one out of the way

[michsienna]

me too!!!

im sure it was the form i filled out when i aplyed for the credit card, some times you get them sent to your house and they already have your name and address on them, even though you never requested them. all you do is fill in the rest of the form,sign it and then send it back.. thats what happend with this one.

[laaldinger]

Dont get too stressed about how many,

You only need to OFFER what you can AFFORD to pay

 

Me an my OH, 19 in total,

but we are getting there

[Zimmie]

I think, Michsienna as I suggested earlier...this is an application form...not an agreement.

[InKogneeToh]

Did I hear my name mentioned?

 

I dunno how this rumour has spread but I am not the agreement expert! I'll give my opinion though.

 

But first some Golden Rules:

 

Never communicate over the phone with any company who is chasing you for debt - only in writing and keep copies of EVERYTHING.

 

Always start your initial communication with 'I do not acknowledge any debt to your company', never refer to 'my' agreement or 'my' debt, always the 'alleged' debt/agreement etc.

 

Don't start any payment plan with a debt management company for any debt that is now in the hands of a DCA until they have proved to your satisfaction that they have a right to collect the debt and, if they now own the debt, the credit agreement to back up what they are demanding. There are many cases where a DCA acquires a debt and chases the wrong person!

 

Similarly, never offer repayments to a DCA until they have proved the above.

 

With regards to the CCA request, only the CREDITOR is obliged to comply with this. If the DCA is acting as an agent for the creditor, the request should be sent to the creditor, not the DCA. However, if the DCA have stated that they have bought the debt, then they are the 'new' creditor and the request should be made to them.

 

Many catalogue accounts exist where an agreement has never been signed. If this turns out to be the case, they will not be able to enforce the debt.

 

Right, now to the agreement.

 

FIRST TEST:

 

Does it contain all of the following:

 

A credit limit (or explanation as to how it is to be determined/notified to you)

 

An Interest Rate

Number and frequency of repayments

 

If any of the above are missing then it is totally unenforceable.

 

Has it passed this test?

 

Regards, Pam

[stadium_arcadium]

It has indeed no credit limit, no interest rate and no payment plan:D Thanks very much for clarifying InKogneeToh!

 

I dunno how this rumour has spread but I am not the agreement expert!

 

This has obviously happened due to your sound advice and knowledge. I have seen this myself from reading around the threads. You are a valuable member to the CAG and I'm sure others will agree. Thank you for your help.8-)

[michsienna]

yes a big THANK YOU!!

so now i need to contact them and tell them this ent a agreement, any suggestions on what to write would be most helpful.

also today i recieved a letter from HILLESDEN SECURITIES, acknowledging receipt of my cca letter i sent them, they are contacting citifinancial europe for a copy of the original agreement.

they also have wrote; if we are unable to forward a copy of the original agreement, we will be able to supply a true copy of the document which will comply with section 78 of the consumer credit act 1974.

many thanks to all of you helping me it means so much!! xxx

[djdave]

Have a re-read of my post #62. You don't necessarily have to write anything - they're in default and probably know it. If you do anything, I'd wait until the 12wd+30 day period is up, by which time they'll be comitting an offence. At this point I'd report them to Trading Standards.

 

I had a nice conversation with TS this morning and they are very keen to hear of these cases, especially where DCAs and card companies try to pull the wool over people's eyes with application forms or unenforcable agreements.

 

It may be worth sending a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) as detailed in my PM, just to give you that extra peace of mind that they won't suddenly magic a valid agreement out of a hat. But that's your call, it's another tenner which you may prefer to spend on a nice bottle of wine to celebrate Cap One's stupidity!

 

PS: don't worry about Hillesden, it sounds like they're bluffing. If they had an agreement they'd have sent it by now. Wait and see what, if anything, they come up with and go from there.

[InKogneeToh]

Hi

 

Firstly, many thanks for the rep points I have received today!

 

There is much debate about whether an application form can be classes as an 'agreement' but the bottom line is that ANY document that contains ALL of the prescribed terms and the debtors signature will be potentially enforceable, depending on how many other errors there are in it.

 

Please check your documents VERY carefully as these terms are often in the small print. If what you have received is an application form, and if you are certain that the 'prescribed terms' (above) are not ALL present then my advice is to send them the following:

 

Thank you for the information you sent following my request under the CCA 1974.

 

However, I made a request to you on .... for a copy of the executed agreement applicable to the alleged debt. Under the CCA s77/78, you are obliged to send me a true copy of the actual credit agreement but have only sent me a copy of the initial application form.

 

A regulated credit agreement contains all of the prescribed terms, other required information and statements of my statutory rights.

 

I would therefore be obliged if you would send me a copy of that document as soon as possible.

 

Yours

 

This gives them a 2nd chance to send a 'proper' agreement (if they have one) and also lets them know that YOU know what is required.

 

If the document is an agreement, then without all the 'prescribed terms' it is totally unenforceable and you can tell them so.

 

In any other case, where any required information is missing, then the agreement is just 'improperly executed' and enforceable on an order of the court only. In such cases the court will assess the prejudice caused to the debtor by the particular errors/omissions and when making any enforcement order has the discretion to change any part of it in order to compensate the debtor.

 

Regards, Pam