Tv License question....just curious

[Annoying Twit]

To disable does not mean removing some part so that it can't receive. It is satisfactory to have the television detuned.

 

I have lots of televisions around, and a valid license. But out of curiosity I've emailed TVL to ask what they consider sufficient disabling of a television so that a license is not necessary.

 

Their standard answer for the question of whether a license is necessary if a tv is only used to watch DVDs etc. suggests that an enforcement officer may need to visit.

 

https://tvlicensing.metafaq.com/templates/tvlicensing/main/answerPage?_mftvst:answerRef=%24http%3a%2f%2fapi.transversal.com%2fmfapi%2fobjectref%2fEntryStore%2fEntry%2fhttp%3a%2f%2fwww.metafaq.com%2fmfapi%2fMetafaq%2fClients%2ftvlicensing%2fModules%2flicensingInfo%2fTopics%2fgeneral%3a134832%3a3&_mftvst:moduleID=%24licensingInfo&_mftvst:topicID=%24&id=LLJRMP4J4LBCCVU3JPC15I7VHM

 

Would it be cynical of me to think that they probably want to catch people whose TVs are not sufficiently "disabled", rather than want to help people make sure whether or not they need a license.

[Conniff]

No I don't think you were being cynical at all. When the 'dreaded' VAT man calls to inspect you books, unless you have obviously tried to fiddle them, he will assist you, suggesting ways to do this or that to make your life easier and less prone to error.

TVL wont do that, which is why I believe they must be on some sort of bonus scheme.

[Annoying Twit]

Here's a page with BBC responses to FOI queries concerning the license.

 

BBC - Freedom of Information - Responses: TV Licence

 

It's rather long, and I certainly haven't read every one. But I notice that the BBC refused to confirm whether "enforcement officers" are paid and whether they receive a commission. They also refuse a lot of other requests on the grounds that this would affect law enforcement.

 

I've emailed them (not under FOI) to ask what they consider sufficient "disabling" of a receiver so that a license is not needed. If they don't reply, I'll ask again under the FOI.

[Conniff]

I always take a refusal to answer a question as an unmittigating 'yes'. Just like politicians, will never answer a question.

I don't see how confirming collection on a 'commission' basis would affect law enforcement.

 

This is the sort of story the Sun or Mirror likes and would probably have more success at getting a response, try dropping them a letter.

[Annoying Twit]

I always take a refusal to answer a question as an unmittigating 'yes'. Just like politicians, will never answer a question.

I don't see how confirming collection on a 'commission' basis would affect law enforcement.

 

This is the sort of story the Sun or Mirror likes and would probably have more success at getting a response, try dropping them a letter.

 

If I remember correctly, they denied the request concerning the commission question by saying that they subcontracted out enforcement work to Crapita, and do not hold the information themselves. Since Crapita is a private business, it is not subject to the FOI act.

[Conniff]

I would say there must be a way around this and 'crapita' would have to answer Freedom of Information Act type questions on the collection of public money. It is probably just a case of wording.

If they cannot be made under any circumstances to divulge this info because they are a private company, then the BBC must have these figures and are lying.

Public accounts are always open to scrutiny.

[Annoying Twit]

I would say there must be a way around this and 'crapita' would have to answer Freedom of Information Act type questions on the collection of public money. It is probably just a case of wording.

If they cannot be made under any circumstances to divulge this info because they are a private company, then the BBC must have these figures and are lying.

Public accounts are always open to scrutiny.

 

In another reply the BBC said that they pay Crapita a fixed fee per year for them to provide their services and do not hold information as to how enforcement officers are paid.

 

I have been unable to find anything which says what happens concerning the Freedom of Information Act act where a private company is contracted by a public company to provide services. What I' have been able to find out for similar situations (e.g. pages 64 and 85 of this: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt200607/jtselect/jtrights/77/77.pdf)

suggests that private subcontractors are not covered by the act, and hence cannot be required to provide the information if it is not held by the public body.

 

This newspaper article from Wales talks of performance related bonuses for TVL enforcement officers as a matter of fact. TV licence worker guilty of pay [problem] - icWales

 

Note that the basic salary (in 2005) was 11K. I'm guessing that not many people would take an 11K job unless there was significant opportunity for increasing that salary through bonuses, commission, or similar.

[wanderingsoul]

I have just lived in the UK for 12 months, with a TV, but only DVD and Xbox.

They sent me about 10 letters, though they were always addressed to 'the current occupier' - except once when it was addressed to the last person to live there.

How can it be a legal charge if they don't even know who lives there?

I ignored every single one. If they want to knock on my door, then go ahead. They never did. If they did, I was prepared to refuse entry as I don't have to prove anything to them.

Australia and the US, as well as plenty of other countries abolished this stupid tax 20 years ago. You can pay 150 pounds per year for 4 channels with nothing on in the UK, or get 400 channels via cable in the US for less than that.

EDIT There IS advertising on the BBC, they DO make money from it, so I challenge anyone to tell me how the BBC can do this, and how it is fair.

[HSBCrusher]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1306723.html

[Conniff]

That shows they are out to make it look like the address has to be licensed.

 

Unfortunately W, it has to be paid as it is classed as a 'Tax' in the UK so is a criminal offence that will go to court if not paid.

[mfpa]

What about when you pay them and they keep giving your money back, then chasing you for having no licence?

[Conniff]

I think you will need to explain that in more detail if you want an answer.

[The GodMother]

they have demanded money from me and i sent them a letter saying i dont watch tv as i dont want to watch CR*P and any enforcement office MUST make an appointment with me before they come to the door.

 

I got a lovely letter back saying ty for informing us that you dont watch tv and we may sent an enforcement officer round without notice to check on your claim. Good luck i thought they hve always been told to leave the premises when ever they call on me as they need an appointment. They then try and inform me they dont need an appointment then l just tell them that under english common law they do and they dont have an appointment then they cnt come in and i will count to 3 and if they have not left i will be pressing send on my mobile and asking for the police.

 

theythen leave saying i cant avoid them for ever.

[mfpa]

I think you will need to explain that in more detail if you want an answer.

 

They tell me how much per month they want. I pay the first month by internet banking, quoting the TV licence number they gave me. Three weeks later get a cheque from them, so pay double second month. Back to normal third month, fourth month, fifth month as far as payments are concerned. But get a letter forwarded via my bank towards end of fourth month from TV licensing, quoting the TV licence number, claiming they do not know what the money is for and a letter after the fifth month from my bank quoting the TV licence number and stating that TV Licensing have said it is insufficient reference for them to apply the payment. In the meantime, they send me letters claiming I'm not licensed.

[Conniff]

Well at least they have been honest in returning you money.

 

I think in this case you should email them quoting the licence number and the circumstances and ask them what further information they require.

 

TV Licensing - Contact us

[mfpa]

I think in this case you should email them quoting the licence number and the circumstances and ask them what further information they require.

 

They don't require any further information. After several exchanges of email they finally admitted they had received and returned the money. The reason they give is that payment by BACS transfer can only be for the full annual amount. They give no indication how this relates to their return of my monthly payments made by internet banking.

[buzby]

Internet banking 'IS' BACS transfer. If you pay by any method other than full payment, they insist on controlling the monthly debits.

[borisbeaver]

It'll be interesting to see what happens when the analogue signals are finally turned off.

 

This potentially means that unless you have a digital converter for your TV, then it would be impossible to receive television signals.

 

As these converters range from set-top boxes to simple plug in "dongles" TVLA would have problems confirming the existance.

[buzby]

How so? There is no distinction in the regulations as to the method of delivery, analogue, digital terrestrial, cable or satellite - it makes no difference. As for detecting them, this is a bit of a misnomer, as it's fairly well known that the 'TV Detector vans' were simply a ruse to encourage licence take up - indeed what was left of the fleet were formally retired over 10 years ago.

 

The detection is simpler than you think. Every UK address is flagged as being business or residential, if the latter then it it assumed it will need a licence. If there is one for that address, there's no enforcement. If there isn't you are placed on the monthly mailing list and scheduled a visit by a field agent - normall within 12 months.

 

To make things easier, every sale of a device capable of recieving TV signals must be recorded and sent to the TVRO within 14 days (by law). Again, if there's no licence for the address given, this kickstarts a renewed flurry of mail-shots.

[The GodMother]

Yes but what gets me is when you ar temperaly placed in a B+B buy the council and the TV licence ppl enforcement officers say that every room needs a licence but the tv licence call centre ppl say you are covered by the one for the buildingas it is down to the landlord to pay for a building one.

 

Who is rite?

[The GodMother]

How so? There is no distinction in the regulations as to the method of delivery, analogue, digital terrestrial, cable or satellite - it makes no difference. As for detecting them, this is a bit of a misnomer, as it's fairly well known that the 'TV Detector vans' were simply a ruse to encourage licence take up - indeed what was left of the fleet were formally retired over 10 years ago.

 

The detection is simpler than you think. Every UK address is flagged as being business or residential, if the latter then it it assumed it will need a licence.Theres that word again. Assumed you need a TV licence. What if you dont and there enforcement office wont stop harassing you and saying you cant avoid us for ever and that they dont need a warrent to enter your property? If there is one for that address, there's no enforcement. If there isn't you are placed on the monthly mailing list and scheduled a visit by a field agent - normall within 12 months.

 

To make things easier, every sale of a device capable of recieving TV signals must be recorded and sent to the TVRO within 14 days (by law). I have brought TVs and never had to give where it is going to. I was never asked about a tv licence either. The company must have thought i had a licence. Again, if there's no licence for the address given, this kickstarts a renewed flurry of mail-shots.

..........

[dave]

I have brought TVs and never had to give where it is going to. I was never asked about a tv licence either. The company must have thought i had a licence.

 

Then, in that case, if the TV's were new, the seller was breaking the law.

 

Unless you paid by card, in which case, your address details will be collected that way and passed to the TVLA.

[buzby]

Yes but what gets me is when you ar temperaly placed in a B+B buy the council and the TV licence ppl enforcement officers say that every room needs a licence but the tv licence call centre ppl say you are covered by the one for the buildingas it is down to the landlord to pay for a building one.

 

Who is rite?

 

 

For a hotel/B&B a licence is required by the owner(s), however irrespective of this, if you're in temporary accommodation your existing licence will cover you, providing nobody is viewing TV at the licence address - so any issue with the TVLO and the owner is not your concern.

[buzby]

As Dave says, if you buy a TV from a retailer, they MUST take your details - it is filled into a Duplicate Book, usually by the retailer and the completed pages sent off weekly to TVLO. I've seen staff in Argos and ADSA all taking these details. Of course, whether the information gives is accurate or not is another issue. (Especially if a gift). If you buy the TV second-hand, there is no such obligation.

 

As to your point about them assuming you need a licence when you may not - well, that's the way it works. Once you have established to TRVRO's satisfaction you DON'T have a TV, the monthly demands stop for 2 years ONLY, before it all starts again.

[The GodMother]

As Dave says, if you buy a TV from a retailer, they MUST take your details - it is filled into a Duplicate Book, usually by the retailer and the completed pages sent off weekly to TVLO. I've seen staff in Argos and ADSA all taking these details. Of course, whether the information gives is accurate or not is another issue. (Especially if a gift). If you buy the TV second-hand, there is no such obligation.

 

As to your point about them assuming you need a licence when you may not - well, that's the way it works. Once you have established to TRVRO's satisfaction you DON'T have a TV, the monthly demands stop for 2 years ONLY, before it all starts again.

 

 

I could name all the companys but that would take to long.

 

Needless to say Asda have had me buy a Tv and digi box b4 christmas brought for my sister paid in cash and never asked anything.

 

I then went to Argos and they did not ask me for any details when l brought mum a digi box.

 

but l went to Tesco and was asked for my details when l brought a DVD player which does not hold any type of recording facilitys. I did and was told they did not need to take them for a DVD player.

 

I do have a TV actually more than one but we only use the one in littlens room for DVDs. The one in my partner and my room for DVDs and occassionaly the PS2 and the one in the front room for the same reasons.

 

I am still getting montly visits and letters twice a month even tho they have been informed and have accepted by letter i dont have the need for a licence. One TV enforcement officer tried pushing me out of the way of the door and forcing his way into hte house. He soon backed off when l asked my partner to call the police and he saw my partners dog.

 

The police came in and checked the TVs and even told him they were not contected to any ariel or digi box and he was to leave after they had taken his details and ststement.

 

He told them l had repeatly refused to tell him if l was using a TV and refused him entry to the property to check the tvs were not recieving a signal and that he had every rite to enter the property buy force if necessary.

 

In the mean time l had found all my documents to saying l had informed them they new l had no reason for a tv licesnce and found where l was told they needed a warrent to enter the property on one of the TV licence threads, think it is this one.

 

I gave them copies of everything and they then left.

 

The police sent me a letter a few days later saying they are not taking the matter further as he has admitted he may have been wrong.

 

4 weeks to the day of the letter later he was back on my doorstep.

 

I have even had a visit between my posts this morning saying he has to gain entry to the property to inspect the tvs.

 

I told him to get a warrent and he said he does not need one.