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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Tv License question....just curious


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For years we didn't have TV when the kids were very small as we felt that it would be a negative influence on them. Nevertheless, we were badgered frequently by the TVLA because we had no TV licence. On one occasion, we were visited by an inspector who asked if she could come in and check if I had a TV. I told her no but she was welcome to park a detector van outside my home indefinitely as far as I was concerned.

 

A week or so later, we got a letter from the TVLA expressing concern that an inspector had been denied access to check whether or not I had a TV. At the time, I was doing illustration work and my income depended on copyright licence fees from companies (mostly greeting card companies) using my designs under the terms of the copyright licence. So I wrote to the TVLA expressing concern that I had no record of ever having received a licence fee for the use of any of my designs and asked if they could arrange a time and date at their convenience when I could call into their offices and check through their stationary and literature to ensure that they weren't using any of my designs without a copyright licence.

 

I did receive a reply. It stated that it would not be possible to allow members of the public access to their offices for the purposes requested but went on to assure me that the TVLA was not in the habit of using copyright protected work without appropriate consent.

 

In response to their initial letter, I sent a copy of this letter along with a brief note from me that it would not be possible to allow officers of the TVLA access to my home for the purposes requested but I assured them I was not in the habit of owning TVs, vehicles or any equipment requiring a licence without the appropriate licence. I added that any further demands for payment, threats of legal action or demands to enter my home would be regarded as harrassment and appropriate action taken.

 

I very much doubt that I actually had the law on my side but they never bothered me again.

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TVL are just arses - Sorry, but they rely on Bully tactics, I remember reading somewhere that about 90% of people prosecuted were single Mums with kids, who were "coereced" into giving a doorstep "admission"

 

I always chase the cheeky fookers, and yes - we do have a licence, but only because my OH wouldn't let me go without....

 

Mike

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  • 4 months later...
So to confirm. If they want to enter your premises they need to apply for a warrant through a Judge at which point you would have been notified? If they turned up you could simple say "no thank you".

 

Absolutely Robert. They have less power than your paperboy, cannot 'demand' anything and are called 'officers' as an intimidatory measure. They can only enter if you invite them in or with a warrant issued by the courts, but of course they don't tell you that, they use the air of authority to make you think they have some kind of power, but they have none.

 

You do not have to respond to any letters they send you either as these have no legal standing, and it is up to them to prove that you are using a television receiver to receive 'live' broadcast, and not mearly that you own one.

 

A post earlier mentioned that detector vans do not work. Sorry to burst your bubble, but they do. A cathode ray tube television emits a very strong rf field and that can be picked up in quite a wide circle around where it is being used and in the normal house that is in the street, and they can tell you which channel you are watching as well, so I am afraid that the privacy laws do not cover it either.

 

Modern LCD and Plasma televisions or computers with the same monitors do not radiate this rf field so it is they that cannot be detected.

 

When we have all changed to these type of screen at some time in the future, their job is going to be made a lot harder

 

And never ever sign anything. They are as devious as debt collectors and will say it is to acknowledge they have called when it is in fact an admission that you are using a television without a licence even if you don't own a television, and a court summons will probably appear soon after.

 

Just one other thing. TVL is the BBC, they use an outside contractor to collect the fee and it is not a statutory body set up by the government or anyone else

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I had the same problem, had a mobile home which was used for the odd weekend and one weekend they came round, no tv visible and they asked the neighbours if I lived there permanently and had a tv... neighbours didn't know as they were 'weekenders' too and the bloke was well miffed. He went to the site manager and he confirmed that I didn't live there permanently.

 

When I moved I got my license for my old address stopped and as I am in rented property and the landlord pays the tv licence here they couldn't make me take a new licence as I am not a separate household... I now watch tv from a tv tuner card on my digital PC screen.

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A post earlier mentioned that detector vans do not work. Sorry to burst your bubble, but they do. A cathode ray tube television emits a very strong rf field and that can be picked up in quite a wide circle around where it is being used and in the normal house that is in the street, and they can tell you which channel you are watching as well, so I am afraid that the privacy laws do not cover it either.

True, but my understanding is that of all the "detector vans" you see in the street, only one or two are actually functional, the rest being dummy vans to re-inforce their scare tactics. I have also read that there has never actually been a prosecution based on detector van evidence. Only on "confessions" obtained on the doorstep/in the premises by TVL

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Everyone HATES paying for tv licences but EVERYONE doesn't avoid paying them through deception.

 

Yes, the tactics of TVL are atrocious but this doesn't give anyone the right to avoid payment when they use a TV, thus increasing the cost of licences for poor buggers like me who pay it!!!

 

Those who avoid paying when they have a TV are not screwing the BBC, they're screwing the licence payers, i. e. me and 99.9% of people on this site who I am certain will be disgusted by some of the ignorant remarks on this thread.

 

What next - let's stop paying council tax and say we don't use the roads, bins and pavements . . .

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Modern LCD and Plasma televisions or computers with the same monitors do not radiate this rf field so it is they that cannot be detected.

 

When we have all changed to these type of screen at some time in the future, their job is going to be made a lot harder

 

 

yes but we are all going digital soon..........

 

wont be that long before they can "turn you off" for not paying .......

 

The agency they use to collect the tvl is I believe CAPITA.......responsible for among other things collecting and enforcing the london congestion charge.

 

rgds

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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Everyone HATES paying for tv licences but EVERYONE doesn't avoid paying them through deception.

CAG certainly encourages everybody who watches television to pay the licence fee, and distances itself from comments to the contrary.

If you watch TV, pay the fee.

If you do not, then don't be bullied.

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I didn't have a television for some years, though I have one (and a licence) now. During the time I didn't have a licence I started off sweet and innocent, writing them letters saying I didn't have a television. After a while I worked out that keeping up your side of the bargain was a complete waste of time, so I just started ignoring the letters. Only phoning occasionally to complain about misleading wording.

 

I've read (TV Licensing – and the non-viewer – an FAQ) that there is a simple way of getting rid of TV Licencing Inspectors. If they are going to interview you under caution, then under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act, they have to provide you with a lawyer should you demand one. So if you demand one, they'll go away. The link I doesn't look too conclusive concerning this, so confirmation/other evidence might be useful.

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They use those words as further intimidation.

 

You do not have to speak to them at all, unless they turn up with a warrant, (even then you don't have to say anything).

 

I like your way of thinking AT but unfortunately you will have to pay for that legal eagle as you can only get free legal advice if you are being interviewed in a police station.

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They use those words as further intimidation.

 

You do not have to speak to them at all, unless they turn up with a warrant, (even then you don't have to say anything).

 

I like your way of thinking AT but unfortunately you will have to pay for that legal eagle as you can only get free legal advice if you are being interviewed in a police station.

 

OK, HSE - Questioning of Suspects supports your claim. But they can't continue on with the "interview" without legal advice having been taken, so it ends there. I would presume.

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CAG certainly encourages everybody who watches television to pay the licence fee, and distances itself from comments to the contrary.

If you watch TV, pay the fee.

If you do not, then don't be bullied.

 

Really?

 

Of course they do have a bit at the bottom (almost called it a link then) saying you should write to them if you don't have a TV, but given how aggressive and hostile their letters are, I didn't see why I should. Instead I decided to be as uncooperative as possible

 

The evidence suggest otherwise

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Sorry, crash - how is this advocating not paying a licence fee? I agree with webby. If one does not have a tv, why should one make it easy for them? Why should one write to them? Surely the onus is on them to prove that one watches tv?

 

This is not avoidance of paying the licence at all.

Any help and advice is offered in good faith, based solely on my own knowledge and on experience gathered from this site. I am not qualified to offer legal or financial advice, which you should seek from an expert before making any important decisions. My opinions are therefore offered without liability.

 

If I've been helpful, please click my scales. :-)

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As further intimidation, these people who obviously use the DCA collection manual as their instruction manual, attempt to make it look as though your house must have a licence, and you may receive a letter begining:

 

Official Warning - This Property is Unlicensed

 

You are hereby notified that we have authorised officers from our Enforcement Division

to visit you home and interview you under caution, as our records show there is still no TV Licence at this address.

Maybe, on second thoughts, these people wrote the manual that the DCAs use for collection.

 

Surely this type of thing must come under the 'Harasement' regulations.

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So basically because my friend only has a dvd and his games console attached to his tv, he does'nt have to pay....Cheers for that.

 

Careful! I amused myself by reading up on TV licencing some time ago. It appears that there is case law which means that a TV capable of receiving transmissions requires a licence even if it isn't connected. The advice that I read (not written by lawyers, nor am I one), said that anyone wanting to use a TV for purposes other than receiving broadcasts should disable it so that it cannot receive such signals. Even that won't help you though if a TVL inspector fools you into signing a confession, which is, I'm told, easier to do by accident than you'd think, with key phrases hidden in larger documents etc. It is claimed that TVL doesn't publicise these precedents (though it uses them in court) as it's easier to get a conviction if people aren't familiar with them.

 

On the lighter side, I also read a story where someone had a TVL inspector on his doorstep. The TVL inspector asked to come in. The householder said no. The TVL inspector said that he was going to stand there until he was allowed in. It was raining heavily and there was no shelter outside the door. The householder said "fine" (or similar) and just stood there for some time until the TVL inspector realised that the situation was ridiculous and left.

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To disable does not mean removing some part so that it can't receive. It is satisfactory to have the television detuned.

To enter your home they have to have cause, ie they have seen it through the window (and believe that it is a live tv picture) or captured it on a detector. They will still even then, need a warrant from the court to enter.

 

If the set has an aerial plugged in or a set top box, and on switching it on a live television picture appears, then I am afraid that no denial will be good enough.

Just a television and a dvd is fine. Remember though that a video is a television receiver and some dvd have receivers in them (rare), and also a computer with a television card is also classed as a television.

 

One of the reasons to try and educate is that there is nothing tvl has that you need to sign.

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To enter your home they have to have cause, ie they have seen it through the window (and believe that it is a live tv picture) or captured it on a detector. They will still even then, need a warrant from the court to enter.

 

I have read some horror stories of what TVL inspectors will do if they believe that the person they are (in my opinion) harassing does not know the law. In theory they need to follow the process you describe. In reality there appear to be some "bad eggs" among TVL inspectors.

 

There are also more mild examples where inspectors will use bullying or manipulative, erm, "strategies" to get the homeowner to give them permission to enter. As a fictional example, imagine the inspector putting his hands on his hips, saying in an officious voice "I need to inspect your property to ensure that you do not have a television. Show me to the lounge." Wouldn't work on one of us I'm sure, but on poorly educated unemployed people, sometimes effective.

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