AIC Hounding SampleX... Bad to worse!

[ODC]

This is funny, I am going to do this !!!

 

I had my harrassment call last night and told him the call was being recorded, can he state full name, organisation, time, date and reason for the call for the tape .......... I got a "Why is that sir ??" ......... no more need be said !!

Bet that wasnt on his script Wonder what lies and threats he was afraid of being recorded. Well done. I bet you couldnt stop smiling all evening

[lookinforinfo]

SampleX, as two months ve elapsed since you sent the CCA letter you can

now send them another letter which I am sure you will enjoy sending.

 

Dear Sirs,

You will recall signing for a recorded delivery letter from myself on the 28th March. In it I made a request to you under under s.77/78 of the

Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

As you know it is a legal requirement that you respond to such a request

within a specified time. That time is now well past and you have thus committed a summary offence that carries a conviction and a fine of up to £2500.

 

In addition, in the absence of the original agreement, any debt is totally

unenforceable. If you continue to unlawfully harass me by phone despite

the Consumer Credit Act being crystal clear that you cannot pursue me as

you are in breach of the Act you will leave me with no alternative but to

report you via Trading Standards to the Office of Fair

Trading. There I will call into question your ability to hold a Consumer

Credit Licence. I will also take you to Court to ensure that you are punished

for your despicable behaviour.

 

I expect to hear from you in writing within seven days that your continued

harassment will cease.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

MR SampleX

 

Something along those lines anyway. Send it recorded and keep a copy.

[SampleX]

OK... I DO like that letter, BUT... AIC stopped being involved altogether, and have passed it to another DCA... do I still have any grounds to claim the agreement is null and void in the absence of paperwork on the basis of AIC's involvement, or does the whole thing start again, now?

[SampleX]

And what do I do about the fact that AIC who may have been only 'acting' on behalf of the bank in question still violated a legal obligation, even though they've forwarded it on.

[Curlyben]

Time for a Bog Off:

Edit as needed

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

 

 

 

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to yourselves, as it is in dispute with the **original creditor/DCA** and has been since DATE 2007.

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

My last letter from **original creditor/DCA** was DATE and intimated that my complaint would be resolved on **DATE**, this obviously hasn’t happened.

As **original creditor/DCA** are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, Subject Access request and have also breached s10 Data Protection Act request , I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the **original creditor/DCA** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as **New DCA** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If **New DCA** chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Enjoy

[SampleX]

What if the original DCA has not put anything to me in writing other than the usual 'your account has been passed to us, please ring us so we can help you pay us.'

 

I did find AIC in a serious breach of the rules of debt collection from the OFT... aparrently they're not supposed to make the situation unworkable... 'Mr Kennedy' did just that... he pushed me into a cyclical argument where I could pay in full, or... well... pay in full... I kept telling him to take me to court, and he kept saying 'we can avoid all that if you pay in full'... He was not in a 'position' to negotiate on behalf of his client (RBS), only to obtain payment in full.

 

If I remember rightly, they're not allowed to demand a singular, unacheiveable course of action, or tell you to borrow money from friends or family in order to comply...

[ODC]

Mr Krnnedy is stuck with what would seem to be an Unenforcable Debt. I would have no further telephone conversations with him.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Don't speak to Mr Kennedy or any of his colleagues again. In some ways this is a shame; there could be some fun to be had.

 

He is using a technique known as the 'dripping tap'; repeating the same key phrase over and over in order to persuade the target that it must be correct.

 

There are two methods to counter this:

 

1. The broken record, in which you repeat the same thing over and over again, without responding to anything the other person says. It requires some confidence and is best done with a script for maximum effect.

 

2. Attacking his pride and ego. He says he's not in a position to negotiate, so you exploit it. For example:

 

Why can't you negotiate?

Are you so junior you can't discuss basic things?

Why do you keep repeating yourself; are you reading a script? Can't you think for yourself?

I bet you you wish you had a better job; one where you were allowed to make decisions on your own.

Who's your boss? Is it a man or a woman?

That must really get on your nerves, being told what to do by a woman. Is she bossy? Does she nag you? Does she treat you like a child?

That must be really annoying, being told what to do by some other bloke all the time. Still, I suppose he's done better than you.

How long have you worked there? Haven't they let you move on to thinking for yourself yet?

How old are you? Really, you sound about 17.

How old are you? Wow, as old as that and you're stuck in a dead end job like this. That must really hack you off.

What's it like working there? Don't you ever wish you'd done something worthwhile instead?

Why don't you let me speak to the organ-grinder, not the monkey, if you can't make a decision?

 

You get the idea... It works best on phone monkeys and can be remarkably effective in getting them to hang up.

[Fuzzgin]

When you think about it it's odd that they expect the call to as follows...

 

Them: Hello, can I speak to Ms Fuzzgin?

Me: Ms Fuzzgin Speaking

Them: Hello Ms Fuzzgin, please give us all your personal details, even though you don't have a clue who we are and we won't tell you.

Me: why not?.....

Them: ok we are a company you've never heard of before, and you owe us money that you've no memory of borrowing. We'd like to get a payment now. Of course we hope you won't ask and if you did we'd refuse to tell you who exactly we are.

Me: Oh, I'll get my debit card and give you free access to my bank account then.

 

Unfortunately that does happen. I'm really grateful for this forum making me realise that I have rights too.

[Gingerbaby]

Hi

I have been reading through these threads with avid interest due to a number of problems i am also having with AIC, And just like SampleX was contacted initially via a text message as asking me to call AIC with a reference number (at this point i had not idea who they were or what the matter was regarding) so i called the number and they immediately threatened me with Bankruptcy if i could not pay £5.5k i explained that i simply did not have these funds available so i was asked " well what can you get" or are you not able to borrow this from friends or family!!

 

I asked them if i would be able to negotiate a repayment plan and was told they do not enter in to repayment plans and simply out to recover the full outstanding they left me in such a state after all of there initial threats that i even had to be sent home from work as i was unable to concentrate due to all the threats that had been made.

 

This all happened on the Friday and i pulled myself together and found this fantastic site and also sourced other information through National Debthelpline i was then ready for action - On the saturday i recived also a card through the post from them demanding immediate payment so i took action and sent off for a CCA request as i was also supposed to pay the full balance by monday mid day i called them at 09.30, 10.39 and also after waiting for a call back at 1.39 each time i was told the person dealing with my case was not in my CCA letter was sent recorded delivery and recived by them on 13th and cheque cashed on the 16.11. since that point i had not had any missed calls and no response to the 3 messages i had left so on friday 16.11 i returned home to find a letter dated 13th which stated I write with reference to your letter dated 13.11.2007, I am frustrated at the content of this letter to which you make the following points “Due to continued failure to contact AIC, despite numerous letters, or the failure to arrive at a satisfactory repayment solution that you are now considering court action ...what a joke they had not responded to me

so i called the office and the following happened After receiving this letter dated 13.11.07 i again made contact with Mr xxxxxx with regards the content of the letter whom was unable to provide any reason as to why he had failed to respond to the messages that had been left he merely was unable to respond he also then stated in this call that he found my my attitude to be poor this coming for a company that have not done anything but make verbal threats, needless to say as Mr xxxx was unable answer these questions he put the phone down

I am now playing a waiting game with them as to what will happen next but again no further letters or calls have been recived to date and i am really alarmed at the number of threads i have found about this company and am surprised that they are even allowed to trade

[SampleX]

I'll give a testimony now...

 

I'm actually in no better a position than I was when I started looking here, and certainly am no closer to any 'arrangements'...

 

But how I feel about everything has changed a lot.

 

Through the strength and encouragement that I found here, I've been able to deal with things in a different way...

 

These people no longer intimidate me.

 

Am I avoiding them?

 

Absolutely.

 

Am I paying them anything?

 

Absolutely not.

 

Do I acknowledge that I owe a debt?

 

Certainly.

 

When the DCA's in my different circumstances start to treat me like a rational, thinking, adult human being who is not manipulated by sneaky tactics and near-criminal business practice, then they'll get a response on the same level. Frankly, if I owe a bank £2000, or a credit card, there is absolutely NO REASON IN THE WORLD why multi-billion pound corporations that specialise in peddling slavery and debt shouldn't accept a repayment of £25 per month because they've managed to collapse someone personally and financially. These corporations don't just want money, they want that level of control... an endebted society is an immobile society and a vulnerable society and is infinitely more likely to continue in debt for a lifetime and pay a lifetime of interest. Financial freedom is empowerment, and that is the last thing the finance houses want.

 

So the way I figure it, they're actually happier with me in debt and in default, than they would be if I settled.

 

Every single letter, every single phone call is filled with rhetoric to make me feel like a failure, like a criminal, like I've perpetrated some heinous deed against them. Well screw them! I don't care anymore. This has made my life miserable enough and I came to a grim realisation in the summer... with the exception of one debt, which is secured on my parents property (and which is being repaid at a maximum possible amount)... when you've got nothing left, you've got nothing left to lose. So now I treat them exactly like that... want to threaten court action? don't threaten it... do it... lets talk to the judge. Want to threaten bailiffs...? Fine... when you've jumped through all the legal hoops I give you to jump through, then try to find a property that I own, or rent, and try to prove that I actually own anything at all... and then see if a court will let you auction off my clothes and my toothbrush and prevent me from eating food so that a bank can make its money back... there is such a thing as bankruptcy, and it's not the worst thing that can happen to you.

 

Here's an encouragement... AIC DO go away. They ARE replaced by someone else, but they DO go away, which to me is proof that if they COULD execute the debt, they would... but they can't, or they aren't, and therefore it ends up being passed on elsewhere, and you just have to get used to playing the same games with CCA and such.

 

First thing I do, now, when I get a letter from a new DCA introducing themselves, is send them the telephone harrassment letter. Just put a warning shot across their bow, that you know what you're doing.

 

And the trick is to teach yourself instinctively to tune in to every telephone based pitch (and I mean EVERY) be it sales, or cold calling, or debt collection, and never never let yourself be led into giving a scrap of detail away...

 

'Is that Mr SampleX?'

- 'Who's calling, please?'

 

Answer a question with a question - there is no law whatsoever that demands that you give them what they want. When they realise they're being unproductive, they soon go away... They keep ringing, but by now you know their numbers, and you're ignoring them and making a log of each and every attempt to call you. DO NOT confirm your identity in any way... it will annoy the hell out of them. Run rings round them and have fun, by all means. Bottom line, you have, actually, far more power than they do... you have your finger on the bankruptcy button and you can put an end to the whole thing as soon as you get tired of playing the game. If they COULD exercise the power they claim, then the country wouldn't have record numbers of people struggling with debt, it would have record numbers of people automatically and urgently bankrupted by debt collection agencies. These people's businesses thrive on, they exist solely on, their ability to bully you into giving them money to justify their existence. I strongly suspect that AIC is one such company struggling to justify existence... they seem to be hired bullies, unable to negotiate, not in ownership of their own portfolio of debts... all growl and no teeth.

 

And as you've seen, as rude and insulting as hell.

 

But here's the thing... if you don't confirm your identity, they can't talk to you. If they send you a letter or card saying 'ring us' then send them a letter written on your behalf (and pp. the signature)(with a slight delay on it - slight delays help string out an inefficient process) stating that Mr Yourself will not conduct such discussions by telephone and is prepared to review the particulars of the situation they are raising in writing only, at which time the details will be reviewed by your legal counsel...

 

They'll be confused as hell, because they can't discuss matters with you without knowing its you they're talking to, they cannot disclose information to third parties, so they're not sure who they're writing to, and they don't pay operatives to review cases and write letters, they only have a stock of standard letters to send out, so they could just end up repeating themselves and entering into an infinite loop. Nontheless, persist in the vexatious responses, because as long as you've got a record of asking them for perfectly reasonable clarification, their avoidance of fulfilling your reasonable requests is going to prove more troublesome to them at enforcement than it is to you.

 

Imagine having a log of you sending 20 letters stating (on your behalf) that Mr Yourself requires written discourse to clarify the matter of alleged debt and will not discuss the matter by telephone in order to have a record of events which is open to scrutiny and documented etc.etc.etc... same letter every time, with an added comment of frustration making note that the last request for information has been ignored, accompanied by 20 'please ring us so we can discuss this situation' letters, and THEN being taken to court... who do you think is going to look like they're wasting the court's time? The court can't make you talk to the DCA on the phone... they CAN hammer the DCA for vexatious practice and litigation and take the view that since the onus is on them to acheive a response, they should have done exactly what you reasonably required of them. We do still have SOME rights, if not many.

 

Chin up.

 

For many of us this is already the worst it can be, the lowest we can go, and you have to find a way to keep smiling through it all... I actually find avoiding them, or giving them hoops to jump through is just so much fun... I really love it.

 

And in the meanwhile, there's no point me offering them money I can't pay, or admitting debt that I can't reach arrangements on... so I string along the process, and I'm awaiting a claim against a large UK corporation for damage done to goods in my business as a result of a utilities malfunction which closed my failing business down earlier this year... it might not be a lot, but here's the deal... if I get £6000, and I have £12000 debt, then each creditor will receive a letter stating that this is the situation, they'll have a full disclosure of all my debts, and all the amounts, and will each be offered a 50% settlement with a 50% write off, on the condition that my credit rating reflects that the defaulted debts are now satisfied...

 

They can accept it (if and when I get it (I certainly hope it's not less than £6000) or they can reject it. If they reject it, then that money will go in a bank account, and each and every one of them will be told to sing for their supper, and when I go to court I will bring out the same proposals, and a statement of the money (which hopefully will have earned a little interest in a nice savings account (beautiful irony will be that the account will be with a bank that I'm not endebted to)) and make the same offer to the court, and hope that a judge finds it to be a reasonable offer.

 

At the time of making an offer, I'll also then chase the credit card charges back, not from the DCA but from the banks, and with any luck, I'll sting both bank AND DCA... way I see it, if the bank has sold my debt to DCA, they still owe me the billed charges and CANNOT say that they haven't been paid for them, because they accepted settlement in full and final payment of my debt, whether reduced and paid by a DCA or not... we could discuss the legal ramifications of the banks insisting that the account was never paid and was defaulted and therefore no charges are due for refund, because if that were the legal case the question would be 'well, who the buggery is charging me for all these bank charges then, if not the bank...?' and that would, I suspect, be very legally dubious....

 

Best of luck in your dealings with these wigglers... May you confound them at every stage, may the smile return to your face, and may you find as much enjoyment in making them run in circles as I do. I'd love to see it turned into a national sport...

[Curlyben]

SampleX, absolutely spot on there mate.

I completely agree with you.

[Gingerbaby]

Thanks for this i can certainley tell you i will take all of your advice and no they will not grind me down i made a few bad financial chioces during my late teens in to my twenties and made a stupid decision now in to my 30's am still struggling to achieve financial freedom.

 

However i would also like to state that since the age of 16 i have always worked and paid my way never claimed benefit and raised my children myself and i chosse life and not merely exsist on the pitance that these companys would like me too yes i made mistakes but maybe at the time of lending me the money they should have also loaned there money more responsibly and rather than looking a credit score actually assess my ability to repay ...yes i am sorry for the state i am in but AIC or anyone one else are not going to bring me down as you say i cannot pay what i do not have

[monday blues]

SampleX A truely exellent post - Love it.

[Docman]

here here, samlpeX. I was also feeling absolutely ground down until I found this site. I was reasonable with the credit card companies but they just grabbed more and more. Now I deal with these DCAs in the same way they deal with me - and boy do I feel empowered.

 

The sooner the banks, credit card companies and other lenders realise that using these bully boys is counter-productive, the better we will all be IMO.

[itsamomentintime]

boy do I feel empowered.

 

 

bang on the money!

[Fuzzgin]

Good post SampleX!!!!

[Tau]

Superb post matey