Hello all I have recently received a letter from Lloyds TSB in response to a CCA request that has been ongoing since last year and now i am uncertain of what action i need to take the letter basicallstates the following " With regards personal that was advanced on 24 September 1998 in my name that a copy of the signed credit agreement should have ben provided to me as part of the standard procedure to taxke out this loan. Regrettably due to the passage of time they are no longer able to obtain a copy of the original credit agreement. whilst we are obliged to retain such documents for a reasonable period they do not feel that it would be realictic for them to be expected to hold a copy of the agreement for some 9 years after the inception of this. In july 2001 the account was closed and passed to the DCA and a default notice was issued in March 2001 and a Formal Demand in May 2001. Suince july 2001 the sum of £**** has been repaid against the balance and used to reduce the debt accordingly. As no payment has been on the account since July 2007 (may add at the instrcution of BLS whom stated the payments were now £0.00) they appointed Debt Mangers as they di not recover the balance Robisnson Way was then instructed and since the file has now been passed back to Llyods (mainly as they are unable to provide the CCA) They have now informed me that the will partially uphoild the complaint as they are unable to provide a copy of the agreement due tot he length of time that has eplaed but they do alo feel that as paymets have been made on the account that i am still liable for the 50% of the balance which is just over £2.5k Does anyone have any advice or letters i may be able to use in response as i have 28 days to reply but am still unable to settlethe account in full

Hello all

Thanks for this although they have again advised me that they are going to send the debt collectors out to visit me in 5 days unless i pay So if i send the attached will this prevent this action as this is now about the 3rd company that Llyods have instrcuted on me and none are able to provide the CCA, also to date i have not had any letters from Robinson Way just a phone call

Hello, I have been reading through this thread and am very interested in anyone theat could offer me advice i had been pursued through AIC and also Debt Managers on behalf of Lloyds TSB regards the sum of £5000 i had sent in a CCA request back in december and none of the dca's were able to provide this, the matter was then refered back to Lloyds and again i asked them for the CCA again i recived absolutely nothing from them and now today i have been contacted by Robinson Way for the same debt whom state if i do not pay the amount in full in 5 days they are sending a doorstep collector out Can anyone offer me any advice or is this now a case of sending another CCA request

Can i ask, if you are defending a claim is this like a ccj whereby your defence is all written or would would you be actually required to appear (even if not in a court loacl to you) I am getting very scared as they have now defaulted and commited a criminal offence but i have not heard much but each day i live in fear of the postman

Thanks or this that is great not vey good a letter writing does anyone have any good strongly worded templates i could use

Hi I am now over the 12 days for the CCA request from AIC and the Debt Managers and also now at the end of the 30days whereby i believe they commit a criminal offence, Does anyone know what i ahopuld do now or do i need not take any further action until they contact me

Hi There, I completely empathise with you about AIC, They are nothin but utter bullies. The first course of action you need to take is to send a CCA request in to them otherwise you have no way of been able to establish that they own the debt as i could quite easily demand money from you. You have to allow 12 working days for this to be issued and need to also enclose £1 stat fee, Also as i have been advised do not sign the letter. Once you have dine this i am afraid my freind it is all a waiting game my CCA request was on the recived by AIC on the 13th November as i sent it recorded delivery and my cheque was cashed on the 16th November they enter default with me on 29th November and come the 29th December if they have still failed to provide this information the have i believe then commited a criminal offence !!! I have had no further letters from then since 16.11.07 and no calls either in the last letter i ssued the following response to there stupid claims Monday, 19 November 2007 Ref XXXXXXX I write with reference to your letter dated 13.11.2007, I am frustrated at the content of this letter to which you make the following points “Due to continued failure to contact AIC, despite numerous letters, or the failure to arrive at a satisfactory repayment solution that you are now considering court action” I would like to now address with you the following points the first of which I received a text message from you on 09.11.07 asking me to contact your office which I then did immediately at 12.15pm as instructed I was advised over the phone that you required immediate payment of £55** I then gave you full authority to deal with my partner at this point &&&&& you then discussed the matter with her and pointed out that you intended to sue me and apply for a Bankruptcy claim as she advised you that we were unable to pay the full amount, I would also like to point out at his time we have not been provided with any evidence from you that you are looking after this case. Your only solution to us was that we contact friends and family to borrow this money as you were unprepared to enter in to any negotiations of a payment plan you then stated we had to contact you before midday on Monday to advise if we had been able to source the money through additional borrowing of family or friends (nb: this is poor collections methods as under no circumstance should this me recommended under your guidance’s on the CSA that regulates you) On Monday 12.11.07 my partner tried to contact Mr XXXX on 3 occasions one at 9.35 and was advised he was not in the office until 10.30 she then called back at 10.39 and was advised that he was in a meeting and asked to be called at 1pm during her lunch hour at 1.40 no call had come through so a further call was made to be advised he was not in the office he has not returned any of these calls I would also like to state that at this point on Saturday 10.11.07 we received the first “card” from you about this so on Monday a letter was issued by myself and my partner asking for the CCA under the following regulations 77.—(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for fixed sum credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of one pound, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,— **(a) the total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor; **(b) the total sum which has become payable under the agreement by the debtor but remains unpaid, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date when each became due: and **© the total sum which is to became payable under the agreement by the debtor, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date, or mode of determining the date, when each becomes due. (2) If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (l) ©, he shall be taken to comply with that paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under the regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained. (3) Subsection (1) does not apply to— **(a) an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor, or **(b) a request made less than one month after a previous request under that subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with. (4) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)— ** (a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and ** (b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence. (5) This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement. I would also like to mention that the aforementioned letter to you was posted recorded delivery on the 12.11.07 and was received to your office and signed for on 13.11.07 (same date as you above letter) and that the cheque payment of £1.00 was cashed on the 16.11.07 to date the CCA has not been supplied. After receiving this letter dated 13.11.07 my partner has again made contact with Mr XXXXX with regards the content of the letter whom was unable to provide any reason as to why he had failed to respond to the messages that had been left by partner despite been given authority to talk to her about this matter in full on 09.11.07 he merely was unable to respond he also then stated in this call that he found my wife’s attitude to be poor this coming for a company that have not done anything but make verbal threats, needless to say as Mr XXXXX was unable answer these questions he put the phone down. Having failed to provide any evidence as outlined above I would like to mention that I am alarmed by the outrageous threats being made against you initially and only now wish to be communicated to in writing for both myself and my wife I would also like to point out that further action regards County Court Proceeding are unenforceable until a time you have supplied all the above evidence, In conclusion I would like to state that I am considering making an official complaint in relation to how you have approached this matter and I entitled to do this under the administration of justice act. I will now await further written response from you. I would like to add that i did call them on 17.11 regards the letter highlighted in the above text and they put the phone down on me and after this i called National Debthelpline who almost laughed at the irony that they were offended by me I completely mpathise but hang in there also i had a very old account with TSB that was passed to the debt managers for collection whom followed a similar tactic to AIC a CCA request was issued to them and TSB were unable to provide this information so it has now been passed back to TSB whom i have also sent a CCA request to on 07.12.07 whom we are now at day 8 on and it has still not been supplied

Found the following that may help Attach the following letter to the AQ followed by the draft order. Then in the actual 'section G' box of the AQ, write this; Please find the following attached to this allocation questionnaire: 1) Section G - other information 2) Draft order for directions This allocation questionnaire and its attachments were sent to the defendant on **/**/**. Your Name -v- Bank Claim No: ******* N149/N150 Allocation Questionnaire Section G/H - other information The Claimant respectfully suggests that special directions may be made as per the attached draft order. If ordered, the Claimant believes the proposed directions will further the Overriding Objectives in that they identify the most fundamental issues in dispute (as detailed below), and allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously. - The crux upon which this claim rests is the actual loss suffered by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's. - In the event that the Defendant's charges were accepted as being a fee for a contractual service (which is refuted), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. The Claimant believes that if the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, that it is incumbent upon it to disclose such information. Further, the proposed directions are already routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Northampton and Mansfield County Courts. As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that this claim be allocated to the small claims track and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour. In the XXXXXX County Court Claim number XXXXXX Between XXXXXXXX - Claimant and XXXXX - Defendant Draft Order for Directions The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court: a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and reason given (if any) for that charge being made; b) Copies of any statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every charge has been made; c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise; d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon. e) If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order. 2. The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed; a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon; b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not; c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was; d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable. e) Any witness statements. f) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon. g) If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

Have they stated there intention withing papers as whether it is a ccj Claim or stat demand

Just wanted to provide an update regards a problem with TSB they had sent an account on to the Debt Managers whom i issued a CCA request to and they were unable to supply this information and have refered back to TSB now who are of course threatening legal action !!! I have now sent a further CCA request through to TSB but was wondering if anyone knew if this was the correct process to follow or had any other experiences ! Also in terms of some of my recent threads in relation to AIC we are now in day 10 of the 30days after failing to provide the CCA within the 12 days and to date no further letters or calls have been made so am not sure if they still have this account or whether they are just unable to comply with my requested awaiting day 30 when they actually commit a criminal offence although i feel it will probably pass on to some one else before then does anyone have any advice ????

Thanks for this

Thank you i am just worried as it has gone very quiet on me that is ll all they appear to come on strong and then fade away Do you have any suggestions about the company that have referred back to TSB as they were nopt aqble to obtain a CCA as i am assuming they will just send it to some one else or with me been outside the 12 days do i continue with the 30 days rule that if TSB are not able to supply this information they then commit a criminal act ?? Or do i play this game with all DCA's now until it is produced !!!

Hi There, I have received numerous threats from AIC stating all kinds over the phone and was very distressed about this on the 12th November i sent a request for my CCA for an old BLS account the 12 days has now passed and i have not had anything else from them should i take further action !!! I also had a similar problem with a company callefd the debt managers who have written to me to advise they are unable supply a copy of this and have referred the account back to the original creditor Should i send further communication to AIC or wait for them top contact me again as to date i have received only 2 letters and no phone calls since

Having read through all of the previous threads again i am very confused as why this has happened as unless i have missed something they have still not provided the CCA is that correct??? I know you had an application form issued I am feeling really deflated at the moment though as what is the point of Consumer Rights if companys just do whatever they like anyway i feel like just giving up on it all they always win and hide under a corporate veil It is now 13 working days since i requested by CCA from AIC and i have not recived anything through i am aware they are now in default and have another 30days but judging from all the problems you have had with SCM it seems like it could go on forever i am not even sure what i do afzter the 30 days

Thanks for this i can certainley tell you i will take all of your advice and no they will not grind me down i made a few bad financial chioces during my late teens in to my twenties and made a stupid decision now in to my 30's am still struggling to achieve financial freedom. However i would also like to state that since the age of 16 i have always worked and paid my way never claimed benefit and raised my children myself and i chosse life and not merely exsist on the pitance that these companys would like me too yes i made mistakes but maybe at the time of lending me the money they should have also loaned there money more responsibly and rather than looking a credit score actually assess my ability to repay ...yes i am sorry for the state i am in but AIC or anyone one else are not going to bring me down as you say i cannot pay what i do not have

Hi I have been reading through these threads with avid interest due to a number of problems i am also having with AIC, And just like SampleX was contacted initially via a text message as asking me to call AIC with a reference number (at this point i had not idea who they were or what the matter was regarding) so i called the number and they immediately threatened me with Bankruptcy if i could not pay £5.5k i explained that i simply did not have these funds available so i was asked " well what can you get" or are you not able to borrow this from friends or family!! I asked them if i would be able to negotiate a repayment plan and was told they do not enter in to repayment plans and simply out to recover the full outstanding they left me in such a state after all of there initial threats that i even had to be sent home from work as i was unable to concentrate due to all the threats that had been made. This all happened on the Friday and i pulled myself together and found this fantastic site and also sourced other information through National Debthelpline i was then ready for action - On the saturday i recived also a card through the post from them demanding immediate payment so i took action and sent off for a CCA request as i was also supposed to pay the full balance by monday mid day i called them at 09.30, 10.39 and also after waiting for a call back at 1.39 each time i was told the person dealing with my case was not in my CCA letter was sent recorded delivery and recived by them on 13th and cheque cashed on the 16.11. since that point i had not had any missed calls and no response to the 3 messages i had left so on friday 16.11 i returned home to find a letter dated 13th which stated I write with reference to your letter dated 13.11.2007, I am frustrated at the content of this letter to which you make the following points “Due to continued failure to contact AIC, despite numerous letters, or the failure to arrive at a satisfactory repayment solution that you are now considering court action ...what a joke they had not responded to me so i called the office and the following happened After receiving this letter dated 13.11.07 i again made contact with Mr xxxxxx with regards the content of the letter whom was unable to provide any reason as to why he had failed to respond to the messages that had been left he merely was unable to respond he also then stated in this call that he found my my attitude to be poor this coming for a company that have not done anything but make verbal threats, needless to say as Mr xxxx was unable answer these questions he put the phone down I am now playing a waiting game with them as to what will happen next but again no further letters or calls have been recived to date and i am really alarmed at the number of threads i have found about this company and am surprised that they are even allowed to trade

Good luck, Keep us posted on how you get on

I agree they are very poor indeed as the written agreement they refer to was that not simply the application form and not a consumer a credit agreement

Curlyben - Have you had any form of action with AIC or The Debt Managers as these seem to be a particularly nasty bunch trying various forms of scare tactics to come to immediate payment with debtors without issuing prior notice that they have taken over the debt I know they are well known through National Debt Helpline and these are used a lot in connection with Lloyds

Did you get any joy with this? EDIT POST EDITED TO REMOVE PERSONAL COMMENT.

Had BLS been trying to make you increase any payment arrangement you had or have you always denied liability of this with them through thre request with CCA I think the POC listed are a very weak defence that they have and as CCJ can also be set aside through various courses of dispute

Can i ask what you are referring to as a POC ? Sorry it may sound like a daft question

I have a letter that was issued to me in order to defend them not be reponding to me in 12 days as i am pre pared for war on this one, this was gained from a useful source alo on this sight Dear Sir/Madam ACCOUNT NUMBER: Dear Sir I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. You have now failed to supply me with a copy of the original signed agreement for the alleged “debt” you are trying to enforce. This request was sent on XX XX XXXX together with the statutory fee of £1.00. I have given you more than enough time to supply the original signed agreement and you have now exceeded the allowed time. By not supplying the documentation I believe you have now committed a criminal act under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. You are reminded that you were obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the CCA 1974. As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued. I will therefore no longer be making payments against this "debt" as it is unenforceable. I now consider the matter closed and no further correspondence regarding payment will be entered into. If you persist on pursuing payment you will have left me no choice but to report this matter to Trading Standards Yours Faithfully, Not to sure if this will be able to help you know with court looming but i also have a number of useful documents that could help if you are able to advise me on the type of court papers you have been issued i am assuming this was not a statutory Demand ad these have to be hand delivered or sent recorded delivery as you only have 18 days to respond an sipute the action

Hi There, I have been reading through your threads with avid interest as i too am experiencing a number of problems with the TSB. I orginally took out a loan with them back in 1998 which subsquently ended up with BLS Collections i had been maintaining a payment greement with them for a number of years until June/July this year when they wrote to advise me that after my periodic review that my new monthly installment was £0.00. Unsure as to whether this was to do with the fact that it had been paid for over 5 years (infact nearer 8 with them) i thought that it had been cleared as i was aware that after 5 years whether the balance had been paid in full or not this would be wiped off as advertised through a number of various websites No further installments were then made on the account and no follow up letters or calls came to state that i was behind with my monthly arrangement so i assumed as highlighted above that this was the case. But i have learnt a hard lesson from that and it comes in the form of a company called AIC - See futther threads I have now asked AIC for a copy of my CCA and am now playing the waiting game as i see you have gone through this porcess and still had court papers issued can i ask what this summons was actually for is it a Stat Demand that you have recived or a CCJ request Also what period of time had actually elapsed sice you requesting the CCA and rgetting your application form ?? i was under the impression that they have as follows 12+2 for the CCA then 30 days after this if they have still not supplied it that they have commited a criminal offence and could no longer pursue the debt through court !!!