Cabot/ MBNA Help!!!

[Rhia]

Don't panic Suzie. You need to click Go Advanced when writing the post and you will see where you can upload an item withthe paperclip icon. You need to copy it and then remove personal info then scan and save on your computer then upload it.

[SuzieP]

Sorry for the delay. Hope this works. If it does can you tell me whenever you think it's enforceable.

 

Thanks in advance

Application form.pdf

[Rhia]

Is this as ilegible as it looks? From what I can make out it does not have the basic prescribed terms as set down under the Act neither does it refer to them being found anywhere else. In any of these cases it will be unenforceable but Cabot will try and tell you differently.

[MAGDA]

The MBNA applications usually make mentione of something like "I have received a copy of and agree to be bound by the MBNA Credit card conditions" they all seem to be pretty ilegible as well.

 

Cabot argue that "Section 61 which states: the Secretary of State shall make regulations as to the form and content of documents. As a result one is required to view the primary legislation together with the secondary legislation and therefore our explanation as set out on previous occasions that the terms of the agreement can be set out in another document is legally accurate."

 

Cabot seem to be really pushing this at the moment, I'm in a similar situation to Suzie and this is the stance they currently seem to be taking, referring to section 189 (4) to back up their argument. Magda

Edited September 6, 2009 by MAGDA

[Rhia]

I think this is a product of those Rankine people. At the end of the day there are High Court precedents and other case history which states the prescribed basic terms rate of interest; credit limit etc should all be within the four corners of the actual signature doc.

Find the Wilson and Hurstanger I am sure that's the one that says that - just dig out all cases (all on CAG in library I think).

If you start to argue what MBNA says at "I have received a copy of and agree to be bound by the MBNA credit card conditions". Was this in your hands at the time you signed the appn form? Did you actually read it and did any one instruct you to read it - in particular in relation to the prescribed terms?

It's one thing having a copy it's another that you have read it a nd that particular attention was drawn by MBNA to the prescribed terms.

But anyway read the Act re legibility if it's illegible it's not usually enforceable.

[MAGDA]

I think this is a product of those Rankine people. At the end of the day there are High Court precedents and other case history which states the prescribed basic terms rate of interest; credit limit etc should all be within the four corners of the actual signature doc.

Find the Wilson and Hurstanger I am sure that's the one that says that - just dig out all cases (all on CAG in library I think).

If you start to argue what MBNA says at "I have received a copy of and agree to be bound by the MBNA credit card conditions". Was this in your hands at the time you signed the appn form? Did you actually read it and did any one instruct you to read it - in particular in relation to the prescribed terms?

It's one thing having a copy it's another that you have read it a nd that particular attention was drawn by MBNA to the prescribed terms.

But anyway read the Act re legibility if it's illegible it's not usually enforceable.

 

Thanks Rhia - the Rankine's did us all a big favour didn't they:rolleyes: I don't even remember having any t&c's, let alone reading them, so as you say, it's doubtful that someone in this situation would be aware of the prescribed terms. This was all dormant for a year or more, but Cabot are suddenly pushing for payment again, and in the course of that year, the debt has miraculously increased from around £9,000 to over £15,000:confused: something rather odd there I think. The other thing in our favour of course are the actual assignment, a bit dodgy from what I hear.

 

Sorry to post on your thread Suzie, but thought it might be helpful to us both, and anyway else dealing with Cabot of course. Many thanks Rhia,

 

Magda:-)

[mysticpols06]

Evening Suzie - I have been having problems with Cabot (just a tad) as well - to the point that they now chasing for 2 of my acc & one hubby yet no enforceable paperwork (if at all). Latest letter we received states exact words as quoted by Magda below & they have apparently decided not to correspond anymore but have passed to 'Fire' to collect (who we told are basically still cabot). Am a little stuck as to what next actually but might be worth a read if it helps you hun. Best wishes, Mpols x

 

 

"Cabot argue that "Section 61 which states: the Secretary of State shall make regulations as to the form and content of documents. As a result one is required to view the primary legislation together with the secondary legislation and therefore our explanation as set out on previous occasions that the terms of the agreement can be set out in another document is legally accurate."

 

Cabot seem to be really pushing this at the moment, I'm in a similar situation to Suzie and this is the stance they currently seem to be taking, referring to section 189 (4) to back up their argument. Magda"

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/166869-cabot-aarghhhh-9.html

[SuzieP]

Hi all thanks for all the replys.

 

I've received another letter from them stating that they are going to send the debt to an external debt collector or consider legal action.

 

On the application form there is no basic terms of rate of interest or no credit limit etc. so am I write in thinking that regardless of what they say it's not enforceable? Should I send them a letter stating that and if so has anybody got a template I could use? Or should I just ignore the letters?

 

The alarming thing for me is how quickly the debt increases with Cabot they seem to add interest/charges for fun.

 

Any responses or help is appreciated.

 

Thanks

Suzie

[MAGDA]

Hi all thanks for all the replys.

 

I've received another letter from them stating that they are going to send the debt to an external debt collector or consider legal action.

 

On the application form there is no basic terms of rate of interest or no credit limit etc. so am I write in thinking that regardless of what they say it's not enforceable? Should I send them a letter stating that and if so has anybody got a template I could use? Or should I just ignore the letters?

 

The alarming thing for me is how quickly the debt increases with Cabot they seem to add interest/charges for fun.

 

Any responses or help is appreciated.

 

Thanks

Suzie

 

I am just ignoring them now, because by writing to them any more (I've already written and explained that the agreement is an application form etc) will just result in another reply from them saying the opposite. If they are going to take me to court then I guess they will do so anyway, regardless of what I say in my next letter. It has all gone eerily quiet at the moment, the next thing will probably be court papers dropping through the letterbox, all I need at the moment as already dealing with two:mad:

 

I don't consider their applications to be enforceable, it mentions that I have received a copy (or something like that) of the t&c's and it is here apparently that the prescribed terms are found. Cabot hasn't even sent the original t&c's, just the current ones, and in any case, it would still mean that the prescribed terms are found in a separate document. Prof Goode said:

 

“It is clear that s61(1)(a) is referring to the prospective regulated agreement, so that its requirements must be fulfilled by that document and not just by another document to which it refersGoode, Consumer Credit Law and Practice, paras 30.102-30.103

 

I know what you mean about the debt increasing, I had a letter from cabot around 11 months ago saying the balance o/s was around £9,000, and now their recent letters state that it is nearer to £16,000! How do they work that out:confused:

 

something else to remember is that Cabot's assignments are often not up to scratch, and it they did take you to court, that is something else that would possibly prevent them enforcing the debt.

 

Anyway, IMO, if you have already written to cabot explaining your position on this, then I wouldn't bother sending any more letters, but wait and see what they come back with next, although, there is a risk they make take you to court. Good luck, Magda

[mysticpols06]

Hi, How are you? Any updates? Mpols x