do you have to pay parking tickets from private companies

[MalMonroe]

Hello, I posted before about Excel. I seem to keep finding different sites/threads but most helpful have been Barnsley Boy and Bernie the Bolt. I have appealed and appealed. I paid and displayed. I wrote to my MP - she appears to think I should just accept what Excel say and how disappointing this must be for me. Two weeks ago I received a demand for £100 because although they 'as a goodwill gesture' said they'd drop the charge of £60 if I paid a £10 cancellation fee, I didn't want to pay anything. Today I have received a 'final demand prior to court action'. I am prepared to go to court but feel VERY nervous about it all. In one of these threads someone said that Excel will send threats, etc., and so on all by second class post but mine have all been first class. I have been to court once before, charged with breach of contract and I was in a terrible state. However, I won and that makes me feel I have a chance in this case, which is trumped up as far as I'm concerned. I just need some support and help - HELP! Many thanks indeed.

[MalMonroe]

Sorry I forgot to say the final demand is £100 plus charges of 30 and 50 and they just ignore any letters I send so I'm not bothering any more. I've already sent them a cease and desist which obviously didn't work. I was someone who input the wrong reg but didn't keep my parking ticket and they wrote to me three weeks after the event. I feel ill!

[pin1onu]

Sorry I forgot to say the final demand is £100 plus charges of 30 and 50 and they just ignore any letters I send so I'm not bothering any more. I've already sent them a cease and desist which obviously didn't work. I was someone who input the wrong reg but didn't keep my parking ticket and they wrote to me three weeks after the event. I feel ill!

Mal,

 

Nil illegitimi carborundum. Don't let the B'stards grind you down.

 

Dont panic. Except in vary rare cases the PPCs reject all appeals. Remember they are deciding if they want your money or not and they're hardly going to be independent about that are they?

 

Look back through this thread and you'll find one county court has already ruled their charges as illegal penalty charges. (See the post about Neil Herron).

 

Just ignore their charges and their letters.

 

As you have sent the cease and desist letter why don't you take some positive action against them. Report them to trading standards and the OFT.

 

If you actually get court papers post up here. There will be a number of people who will help you prepare a valid defense. I suggest you have read (or read again) petej's excellent guide to PPC charges. Remind yourself that their charges are unfair and illegal under existing case law and statute law.

 

They've lost once in court already and I've no doubt should they be foolish enough to take someone on again they'll lose.

 

Stand firm - I suspect after the kicking they took in court the other week they'll be very reluctant to see the inside of a courtroom for a while, if ever again.

[MalMonroe]

Thanks pin1onu. I must admit to feeling intimidated by the fact that there's a big yellow box on the notice saying "failure to pay WILL result in court action" - not just 'may'. I heard about the 'landmark ruling' against Excel but you never know with the law - I could become yet another 'landmark ruling' where Excel actually win one! I've written to Pete and asked for his advice. Obviously I don't intend to pay a penny - that is of course unless the judge makes me! I've only been given 7 days so I may be here again next week, panicking about the court date!! eek.

[Barnsley Boy]

Malmonroe,

 

I'd certainly help you with a defence should it come to it, although there are others on this forum more capable than me.

 

With the help of this forum, we should be able to seek the likes of Excel off. From what I understand from your postings:

 

• You paid for a parking space
  
• The parking machine was one of those where you have to enter car registration details
  
• You took the ticket out & displayed on your vehicle
  
• Excel did not put a ticket on your car. The first thing you knew of a problem was some three weeks later, prejudicing your abilities to defend your case [holding onto the ticket for instance]
  
• Excel have been chasing, you've been denying ever since.

In the circumstances, I think Excel would be bonkers to issue court papers.

 

Incidently, I'd take a closer look at the figures on their "final demand", charges of £30 & £50 which I think are court fee and their allowed scale costs. These are incredibly presumptious since they would only happen if Excel took you to court & WON!!!!

 

That is simply not going to happen.

 

This link has been shown many times but I still smile when I read it.

 

Judge quashes £300 parking fine...because it set out to ‘frighten and intimidate’ driver | the Mail on Sunday

[MalMonroe]

Yes, thanks Barnsley Boy, that summarises it exactly!

The fees on the final demand are £30 for court and £50 for 'solicitors scale costs'. It's just that 'WILL' that scares me and also as I say, even though the judge in Mansfield was kind, the one in Sheffield might not be so kind.

Plus, Excel said they were going to appeal and if they do appeal successfully, they will be elated and it could easily be curtains for me - but then again, that's looking on the very black side I guess! Thanks for your support, it means a lot.

[PPC $ cambuster]

I have been watching the posts about PPCs for a while now and it appears that one or two PPC owners/workers have taken to posting about the subject, the tone of their posts is quite predictable and at least consistent in as much as they keep on repeating the drivel that these invoices they stick on our cars are legally enforcible(they like to call them fines ). The simple fact is that they are NOT fines and are NOT enforcible, they are merely a sophisticated form of begging letter and should be ignored as such, the clown who keeps on posting under various names like Perky, Julian, Jeremy or Bernard quotes ficticious names of people he claims have lost in court over refusal to pay these joke invoices, but it is always just a name,no court location, date or case number in other words nothing to clearly prove that a PPC has actually gone to court and won a PROPERLY DEFENDED case on the other hand a PPC has been to court and lost as has been reported in the press.

 

It seems to me that Julian/Bernard/Jeremy/Perky and whatever other name this multiple poster uses as an alias is getting desperate, he sees his [causing problems] days are becoming numbered as people realise the PPC business model is based on nothing more than lies, deceit and the fear of ordinary law abiding drivers that the meaningless threats and pretend quasi-legal letters can initially cause.

 

Is it really an"offence" in law to remove their sticky envelopes containing their begging letters from car windows to prevent other innocent motorists from being scammed if you see them whilst out and about ?? (not that I would condone such an activity!) or is that just more bluff, lies and bluster like the rest of their empty threats?

 

It is now up to all of us to spread the word about the right way to deal with these unenforcible joke invoices and to hinder,obstruct and do everything possible to drive these people out of business and back onto the dole queues

 

 

 

STAND UP TO PPCs DO NOT PAY THEIR UNENFORCIBLE INVOICES.--- YOU ARE NOT LEGALLY OBLIGED TO

[Guest reasonableperson]

I know these things generate strong emotions but as a mere observer of this site for some time, and up until recently a big fan, I am a bit concerned at some of the things going on. Yes the PPCs are prats who have taken to disrupting matters. However IMHO the response has been equally bad. Abuse and threats will not win any argument and only show a lack of belief in your position. I know I will be immediately labelled a troll etc. for that is the fevered nature of the board these days but I would be very surprised if I was the only one to have these views.

[freakyleaky]

Hi Reasonableperson and welcome to the site.

Your views are measured and thought out and are very welcome.

I don't think anyone would class you as a troll. I hope you stick around and keep promoting calm among the contributers of this forum.

 

 

 

..........................................................................................

[Steve__M]

Mal, chin up!

 

Last year I was up against a very large, very real and otherwise very respectable firm of solicitors demanding money for a non-parking-related "offence". (eg. their partners give evidence to Parliament Select committees and one of them will probably end up being knighted for his services etc.).

 

They were absolutely certain I was required to pay them £400 pounds and the tone and language of their letters was extremely aggressive and intimidating, and superbly confident that they were in the right.

 

But when it came down to it, the issue (and their tactics) was the same as for a parking charge - they'd suffered no loss for what I'd done and therefore weren't entitled to my money. As soon as they realised I knew this they stopped writing to me.

 

It doesn't matter what is in their letters, what threats they make etc. etc. etc. Just file them and forget about them. If you are the 1 in 100,000 they decide to pursue they'll run a mile once they see the defence that some kind soul here will provide for free.

[MalMonroe]

Thanks to everyone for all the support, much needed and very much appreciated. I DO realise that even the recent failure of Excel will not stop them, bull in china shop springs to mind. I could actually have been 'let off' by Excel if I'd have paid their £10 'cancellation fee' but my stubborn nature would not let me. I don't want to pay them a penny. I've calculated that if the worst happens, and I do have to go to court and get fleeced, I will have to pay them almost £200 (or the bailiffs will come) so will need to save up some cash for that but I'm prepared for it and have started to collate all the necessary documents, so I guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens when they don't receive my £100 next week. What really upsets me is the fact that the DVLA have caused me so much grief. Perhaps I should counter-sue Excel for stress and all the time I've spent writing letters (in vain!) protesting my innocence. Excel won't listen, even when they lose a court case and a judge tells them they are unfair, so I'm expecting the worst and anything else will be a big bonus.

[pin1onu]

I will have to pay them almost £200 (or the bailiffs will come) so will need to save up some cash for that but I'm prepared for it and have started to collate all the necessary documents,

£200 - thats assuming the judge awards costs against you. Its not always guaranteed in these things.

 

Chances are that you will win. Its happened once - no reason it won't happen again. You will be using very sound legal precedents and arguements. Frankly Excel are grasping at straws with their £10 cancellation fee - that smacks of "get any money anyway you can to me".

 

Stand firm. These beggars are going to hell in a handcart when they started with you.

[neil24103]

Hello

 

yesterday i received a " parking charge notice " whilst parking at Tesco's in Birmingham apparently i was parked in staff parking however this was not made clear , on closer inspection ( after i returned to my car ) there was a A3 sign from Euro Car Parks . Should i pay this ? is it enforcible ?

 

Thank you

just ignore you.ll get a load of letters threatening debt collectors court action etc etc all bluff to get you to pay. your safe its just a unenforceable invioce

[dloper]

3 in the morning and I'm still thinking about this stuff.

 

If the Parking Charge Notice is actually an invoice, shouldn't it display the company vat registration number?

 

Would it be an offence not to?

[pin1onu]

3 in the morning and I'm still thinking about this stuff.

 

If the Parking Charge Notice is actually an invoice, shouldn't it display the company vat registration number?

 

Would it be an offence not to?

If the company are VAT registered it should have the VAT number on the invoice. Technically it is an offense but HMRC would be more interested in compliance first time round. If there were repeated failings after the non-compliance I believe some form of sanction or penalty could be imposed. The threshold for VAT registration is now set at £64000 (up from £61000). So some of these companies may not be VAT registered.

 

BTW If the company is a limited liability company they should also show the address of their registered office on the invoice. They can be reported to Companies House if they aren't.

[dloper]

Sent this to my local paper and Trading Standards Office.

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

My partner recently received a £70 ‘Parking Charge Notice’ from a company called Parking Eye, after spending 34 minutes too long in Aldis Elgin car park.

 

This notice is misleading in both its appearance and the statements made.

It states that it is a Penalty notice. I was under the impression that penalties could only be levied under the appropriate Road Traffic act. This is a private “fee” not a Police or Local Authority parking ticket and I feel this is an attempt to con people into believing it is the real thing.

The black chequered border on the notice appears to be a further attempt to make it look official.

 

The notice also states ‘On the specified date, you were the keeper or hirer of the vehicle in question. As such you are responsible to ensure that the terms and conditions for parking as set down and clearly displayed in the car park are complied with. Therefore you are required to pay the following excess charge within 28 days from this notice.’

 

I believe this statement is false and another attempt to mislead, as the notice, having no legislation or powers to back it up, is in fact, just an invoice. Responsibility for payment (if at all) rests with the driver, which is not necessarily the same person as the registered keeper of the vehicle. This is a civil matter, it is not covered under section 172 of the Road Traffic Act and the registered keeper has no obligation to provide the company with details of the driver.

 

The notice does not carry the companys VAT registration number, which I believe is a requirement if the company is VAT registered. Perhaps displaying a VAT number would give away the fact that its only an invoice.

 

The notice goes on to state that unless paid within 28 days a further £70 administration charge will be payable, plus liability for further charges. I am dubious about the legitimacy of this statement.

 

On the back of the notice, I’m threatened that failure to respond to the notice may result in legal proceedings, court costs, a court judgement and possessions being seized. This seems rather presumptuous.

 

The rights and wrongs of the parking matter are irrelevant to the issues. This notice appears to me to be a blatant attempt to pass it off as something official, and an attempt to intimidate people into paying with spurious claims about escalating costs, seizing of property, Court Judgements etc.

 

I will not be paying, on the grounds that this is an attempt to extract a penalty, when in reality the remedy for a breach of contract is damages, which are of course designed to compensate for any loss the company may have sustained - due to a vehicle parking for 34 minutes in a free car park? I will let the court decide a remedy if Parking Eye decide to pursue the matter. If the court finds in favour of Parking Eye, I will pay.

 

Aldis manager suggested I produce a receipt for over £30 and Parking Eye would waive the charge. If the notice had been issued in situ, I could have propably done this. However, the notice was received over a week after the event.

 

I do appreciate that car parking is at a premium in Elgin, but surely the perception of being ripped off by conmen won't do any good. I suggest £5 is a reasonable figure, which I feel is a fair administration fee for Aldis trouble. Perhaps they'd be willing to accept this?

 

I would suggest others think carefully before agreeing to pay 'penalty' charges.

 

Yours faithfully

[dloper]

Oh dear... it's gone deathly quiet since I said I'd written to Trading Standards and the press....

[MalMonroe]

Hi dloper, I'm sure it's nothing personal. I'm just trembling here, waiting for that summons to arrive... so I've been trying to keep busy doing other things, and I do have a family and a job so that isn't too difficult really. I know the bailiffs can't come until the judge says so but first, I have to go and face up to the judge! In my experience, judges can go either way. I've only had to face up to two before but in both cases I got what I wanted so maybe it'll be third time lucky! I hope so. If not, then I'm prepared for that anyway. Sheesh. All this trouble because DVLA revealed my identity. It does make me seethe! Please let us know what happens in response to your letters.

[neil24103]

Oh dear... it's gone deathly quiet since I said I'd written to Trading Standards and the press....

i dont think you will get anywhere alot of people already tried that route.trading standards dont care and the press always get it wrong calling them fines instead of invioces

[dloper]

I got a reply from Elgin Trading Standards who say they ae in touch with Warwickshire Trading Standards and will return to me with an update once they have fully investigated all of the issues relating to my complaint. I'll certainly keep you all posted.

 

Incidentally, a friend phoned today and said B&Q signs now warn people that if they stay for more than 3 hours they are liable to be towed at a cost of £350 and £50 per day storage.

 

If I had any blood left i'm sure it would boil.

[Barnsley Boy]

Incidentally, a friend phoned today and said B&Q signs now warn people that if they stay for more than 3 hours they are liable to be towed at a cost of £350 and £50 per day storage.

 

If I had any blood left i'm sure it would boil.

 

Seems like commercial suicide for B&Q to do this. I trust that potential sustomers are boycotting the store in droves?

[Michael Browne]

the operations centre

Otherwise known as the office

[PPC $ cambuster]

Otherwise known as the office

 

I call it the kitchen in my house!! :D

[emsgeorge]

Geral - I think you will find that many people on here dont mind getting a penalty chrge if its right, legal and justified.

 

However, private parking charges are being touted as some sort of legal penalty. This is totally wrong. The wording used by 99% of the companies touts both the 'tickets' (as we all know its not one !!) and the follow up letters with untruths about exactly WHO is liable for the 'fine'.

 

Im sure that if private parking companies actually had a legal basis in law - proven cases etc, perhaps some statute law, and were regulated, then we would be a little more accepting of them. The truth is, that a lot of these companies ticket people, simply because they cant get clamping licences for their staff, or cant get a non front line licence for their directors etc, or they simply are a 'kitcken office' type of company, and dont have the capital to invest in running a proper business.

 

Go on 'Geral' - give us your business name or registration number, so we can have a look at your website, and companies house, to see exactly how 'big' you are.

 

Its a bad sign when you put into google most of the larger parking companies names, and the first hit is this forum, rather than their own website !!!!.

 

Take a look on ebay - type in parking tickets. See how many people are selling 'do it yourself' kits on there - and as one seller advertises - its simply so the profit goes 100% to the land owner, not into the private parking companies pockets.

[PPC $ cambuster]

I love this endearing view people have of us(just some guy in his house).

 

Major players such as myself have a fully-fledged office and a dedicated team of staff to help people with their parking.

:eek:

 

 

HELP WITH THEIR PARKING !!!

 

That is the funniest statement I have heard since Gordon Brown said voters can trust Labour!!

 

the only help you sharks try to give is in trying to help the ill informed in parting with lots of their hard earned money by issuing unenforcible invoices (in other words begging letters) and then trying to threaten and bully people into paying up by suggesting that they will be taken to court if they refuse to be conned.

I repeat my challenge to you --

Can you quote real court cases.( ie which court, case numbers, dates and names) that have been properly defended where a PPC has actually won

 

After all a "Major" player such as you with your "dedicated team" must have won lots of times in court

 

Or is your dedicated team your missus who makes the tea and does the washing up whilst you get in her way with your DIY [problematic] kit??