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  1. Go on then ruddiger123, explain away why you think thats not true ....... Troll alert !
  2. Ive seen something about CHP from round here before - can you scrub and post a pic / scan of the 'ticket' and the fixed penalty envelope ?
  3. They have 6 months to lay information for a court summons - but this only means they have to give the court notice within the 6 months. You, on the other hand, might only hear 8 months or even longer, as the courts have to find 'a slot' to fit you in, and will then issue the summons paperwork itself. With Christmas etc being in the way, dot be surprised if one still lands on the doormat. Many people think once the 6 months 'to the day' is up, then thats it.
  4. OK, so you admit you are guilty. The issue is raised by the practices of RLP. So why dont you write to the store concerned (or their head office) and ask them for a breakdown of costs incurred by them during your time in their custody. That way at least you dont risk them taking you to court, nor do you 'line the coffers' of rlp. the store will make an approximation of what they actually lost in time and effort with dealing with you, and any other costs they actually incurred as a result of your wrongdoing.
  5. Swapping the tags is NOT an offence in itself. What about fraud by false representation then - fraud act 2006. (replaced theft by deception last year ....) As flyingdoc says - offence is complete. And if they are simply looking for an offence - then what about criminal damage to the price tickets. You know and I know a court will never run with something of such small value - but it gives a lawful power of arrest to the security officers.
  6. Liberty are one of, if not the largest printing companies in the uk of paerking charge bits. They produce a huge amount of the councils tickets, and at least 30 of the police forces tickets, producers, stop forms and anpr forms. Quite why they thought it would be a good idea to have a sideline as a ppc, I don't know ! Its like any other ppc, they supply the signs and tickets, as a landowner, you simply issue the tickets and send them. Off to liberty. They do the rest. They not only print the tickets, but they offer a furfillment service - printing councils nto's for them, and mailing them out. Wonder if the police forces and councils know what sideline they have ...
  7. Another quick thought after re reading the thread: Knowing that most drill bits are sealed up these days - did you damage the packaging or security seals at all on any of the items ??? Very important question !! He might have enough to have you for criminal damage. Its been through the courts before, and won. I'm just trying to think like a guard in the poo pile, and how to get out of it !!. If there's no damage etc, then you seem to home and dry, and can watch them wriggle as you take them to court.
  8. Ok, how about we summerise it as this : Security have no more powers than you or me on the street. The only 'power' they could argue they have is to refuse the right of entry, or to eject a trespasser - only on land they are authorised to work on. Every uk citizen has a power of arrest over another. Be they security, gardener, shop staff, cook, or cleaner. They can only use this power of arrest for certain offences (defined as those that can be dealt with at crown court) - so, theft criminal damage, abh, gbh etc etc (to name but a common few). The arresting person can use reasonable force to prevent the escape of the detained person, and can also use force to prevent then harming themselves or others. What is reasonable is defined by the magistrates or jury. Security, and members of the public, have no right to search one another. Consented search may be allowed - but only by the detained person. Again, forced search may be an assault. Case law however makes exceptions - for instance - someone has a knife, and you don't want them pulling it out when in holding room. You can reach into their pocket to remove it - to prevent them harming you. As I've said before, there's case law to back up the assumption that people who resist an arrest may end up being charged with assault, even if the original arrest offence wasn't proven. Why give yourself a possible court case over being a pain. Gymzo - you chose to resist, and you knew you were in the right. My point to others is that even if you know, 100% that you have done nothing wrong, then you could end up being charged with assault for simply attempting to fight your way out of a situation - that you would have a hard time defending in court. Why put yourself through this. I would be quite happy to go back to the office, and sit smugly whilst they realise their mistake. Then think of all the money I was going to get !!!! Perhaps its me, but security office then home to write my complaint sounds better than: fight, police van, police cell, bail, charge, court, expensive solicitor etc just to argue my case.
  9. Gyzmo - no problem with your moral stance, but simply that others might read your comments about 'no powers', go and nick something, and resist under the misaprehension that they 'can't be touched or arrested by security '. Some security will take the time to explin the errors of their judgement. Some will simply drag the person back into the store. I wouldn't want someone to read this forum, and end up getting injured because of it. To the OP - One other thing to think of - BandQ use civil recovery. The security will have already processed the forms, and you will get a letter seeking restitution for 'your wrong'. From memory, they use a company called RLP. Don't worry about any demands for money, make sure you put in as part of your complaint for them to make sure civil recovery action is halted. I am being told that their cctv is broadband linked in most stores, so they will be able to download it and view it from their head office. Get that ball rolling asap, or the footage might be overwritten by the system. It won't be able to be deleated by the security on site, but dewpening on the hard drive size, might be overwritten after 7, 14, or 31 days. I will scrub and post the guidelines up as soon as I can. Op - can you either tell us the store location, or give them a ring to find out which company covers it. I can then see if I've got (or know anyone who has) access to their training materials.
  10. It did make me chuckle all morning after reading it. Its almost like a child - you won't give me any money, so I won't let you park in any of my car parks. Funny thing is, one of my friends is the store manager of one of the shops in the retail park - I was visiting him !. He's got about 40 tickets so far, ignored every one, and nothings happened yet. He's waiting for them to clamp... Its one of those sneaky operations - write the ticket in the car, slap in on the screen, take photo, and then run back to car, and hide until next sucker comes along. Writing letters now, will let everyone know how many replies I get, and how long this 'banning' lasts for....
  11. Gyzmo - take a look at the law. Pace, and specifically socpa. Security have the power of arrest. Its is effectively a citizens arrest, but comes with the same powers of use of force etc. Don't start giving bad advice that someone could read and fight with shop security - and end up in court facing assault charges over. There is stated case law with regards to this - even if the detention turns out to be unlawful, as long as it was an honest felf belief by security at the time that the ocffence was complete, then any violence offered by the suspected shoplifter may still result in charges. Even if there was no shoplifting itself, there might of been criminal damage, attempt theft etc etc - as long as there's an indictable offence, there's a power of arrest. To the op: search is unlawful unless you consented to it. He will probably argue to the court that he asked you, and you consented. If it goes to court, this might help your case, it might throw doubt onto the validity of his actions, however, it may be simply seen as you trying to muddy the facts. Do a dpa request for the footage. Get your solicitor to ask if you feel it would be better handled. Take photos of any injuries or marks. Keep any clothing damaged etc. All this will help if you decide to sue. As jonchris has said - see if you can get the persons name, then look them up on the sia website to make sure they are licenced. In house staff (those employed directly by b and q) don't have to be licenced, but thwy don't have any security staff in house, they contract out. Lodge security used to do it, and g4s have contracts in london stores. A quick phone call to the store should find out which one supplies to the store in question. Good luck with your return on bail, hopefully they will just nfa it. I would like to say though, some of us guards aren't just meat heads with 2 brain cells, some of us take time to learn law and powers, and most of all - communication skills !!. No loss to the industry if someone like that gets fired.... If it is g4s - I've got their training materials in. Pdf document. Its about 2 pages long!!. If you want to prove what they should know about arrests, use of force etc, I've got loads of documents. Just ask !
  12. Long story cut short .... New ppc round our area (portsmouth) seems to be taking over the world in last few months. Parked in a retail park in pompy, got anearly christmas present inviting me to pay 75 quid to them. As per usual, ignored the notice etc (I'm not that stupid to pay it !) They have got dvla details, and have written asking me to identify the driver (nice of them to try !) Ignored, and one I haven't seen before came through this morning : trespass notice. ' Further to our letter of blah blah, you, as the registed keeper of blah blah vehicle, are being notified that the land managed by parktech, including parking areas, car parks, service roads is private land, and thus we may restrict entry to that land, on behalf and as agents of the landowners. You are notified that as from the receipt of this letter, your invitation to enter land managed by us is withdrawn. As the owner of the vehicle specified above, it is your responsibility to inform all of the vehicles users that they are no longer permitted to enter parktech managed land. We will keep on file the outstanding parking charge, and will take action against the vehicle, and its occupants if the vehicle is seen on parktech managed land. This may include an injunction, or removal of the vehicle and its occupants from the private land, using as much force as is necessary to effect the removal. Do not ignore this notice. Well - I know you can be banned from stores etc, or ant private land, but didn't realise that this tactic was in use !!!!. Think its just a scarry letter to try to say ' we know we can't make you pay, so we are trying to inconvienience you as much as possible, in a hope you decide to pay up '. Unless they get every parking space, road, in the area (never will happen!), then its an empty threat. Anyone seen any of the other ppc's come up with this ? Don't even think cps has stooped this low !!!!
  13. Did he tell you at any time that you were under arrest ?. B and q don't have any 'in house ' security staff - they are all contracted in. there is a bad training course, and many many of the guards don't even know the caution, let alone how to justify using reasonable force in an arrest situation. Try to find out which company supplies this store. Was the person a uniformed guard, or a store detective ? Did they identify themselves to you at any point? If they did arrest you, then they are entitled to use reasonable force to detain you - section 3 criminal law act. What is regarded as reasonable depends on lots of factors - are you an 85 year old pensioner in a volvo, or a 25 year old builder, with a van full of lethal tools, and muscles the size of a jumbo jet ??!!. In reality, its up to the magistrates to decide if what the security did was reasonable to prevent you from escaping, or harming others. Resisting isn't a good idea - even if you haven't done anything wrong. Just look smug when you tell the store manager you are going to sue the pants off the company - I know I would !. There is case law regarding resisting - lots of interesting stuff. Were you bailed pending further enquiries, charged, or nfa'd ? and make a data protection request to them for the footage - they use a system called a digital sprite, which only holds footage for 31 days usually, so get it in quick. As you may see from my posts, I also work in the security industry as a trainer. I'm still amazed at the number of companies that scrimp on training for staff - and simply take a chance that things like this won't happen. Any advice needed, I'm happy to help !
  14. Are we really hurting the PPC's that much with 'don't pay' that they are having to branch into more 'creative' areas !!. Perhaps I need to go and put up some contractual signs on my car 'place any piece of paper to this car, and you are agreeing to pay £95 charge per piece of paper'. Anyone care to design some 'tickets' (sorry, I mean 'invoices') for me, or do I need to contact a PPC and ask them to do it ??!!
  15. And dpa only applies to businesses - not individuals, besides the points raised above. And isn't it only personal information that's covered - I would assume a car reg isn't personal info by itself ! I'm waiting for someone to bleat 'human rights' - which only applies to authorities or public bodies ...
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