Help - Problems with Landlord

[LittleMissSunshine]

Hi

 

I hope someone here can help me out as I dont know where else to look at the moment. I have problems with my landlord and on the net all info is only related to Landlords problems with tenants not the other way round.

 

The situation in short is as followed

- in sept/oct 06 a sign for sale/sold was placed in the frontyard without communication to me:?:

- on 5th oct 06 a letter from council was delivered that house was illegal conversion (normal house devided in two flats)

- with a lot of stuggle I managed to get deal with landlord that i would stay in the house, downstairs would move out, house would be converted to one property.

- despite promisses for repairs on certain dates, they were late finishing property

- in Jan 07 I signed the contract, I made amendments on it, landlord/agent state that was impossible on contract as contract would be illegal, i had to sent them in separetly. Problem with contract is that they 'forced' me to sign it there and then, without having proper read through, even though front page states i can seek advice of lawyer.

- as requested i sent letter with amendments, these are charges i want them to pay to me when they do not forfill their side of contract (after all they can charge me)

- they demanded guarantor, i supplied them with someone, but they stated the person has to be British citizen AND living in Britain. They know I am not from Britain, but EU member.

- i have sent lots of letters over the last month, NO REPLY

- in the last two letters send over the last two weeks i asked two very specific questions, 1) copy of formal complaints procedure 2) who is owner of the house (as it was sold in oct)

- despite phonecall from them on monday about other issue, but with promiss to send letter same day i still have not heard from them. In this phonecall the person told me that they wont accept my amendments (Why not sent letter about that???). I said i dont accept anything by phone and demanded a written reply as stated in all my letters.

 

This is short what has happened. They are member of ARLA. I havent filled complaint with them yet as I dont feel ARLA can do that much. Unless someone here knows better.

 

SO please can someone help me. I think they have broken the law on at least two occasions if not more. I want to sent them final letter stating they have broken law and will take now action, but i want to know more before i do that.

 

Thanks

LittleMissSunshine

 

ps sorry if its bit long, but lots more happened but these are crucial points so far.

[MrShed]

Useful if you could tell us what you think are their illegal breaches?

[LittleMissSunshine]

As for breaking the law, i think they have broken them on following points

 

1) putting a for sale/sold sign up when this actually is not happening (i have received a letter today and the landlord is still the same)

2) requesting a guarantor to be both British citizen and living in Britain (means that i cannot use either anyone living in UK but not being British or not using anyone from abroad). Like using someone from France, Germany, etc.

3) landlord/agent/owner walked in without knocking and without 24hr notice

4) there is no formal complaints procedure (management apparently discusses issues with themselves. There are just 2 lines in a letter, without timings, or where i should file my complaint and how)

5) not giving me the opportunity to read the contract before signing, telling me had to sign there and then (on 2 occassions)

 

Besides that there arre some issues that are questionably if they are against the law:

1) lying on the phone several times

2) not replying to letters

3) electricity is redone but questionable if its done by certified person (friend discovered that oven is directly plugged into 13amp wall socket as is most of other kitchen equipment on that side)

4) not signing the response letter

5) on the response letter the person doesnt state what her role is within the company (secretary or landlord???)

 

Hope this helps and you can help me sorting out this mess

[MrShed]

As for breaking the law, i think they have broken them on following points

 

1) putting a for sale/sold sign up when this actually is not happening (i have received a letter today and the landlord is still the same)

 

Not illegal

 

2) requesting a guarantor to be both British citizen and living in Britain (means that i cannot use either anyone living in UK but not being British or not using anyone from abroad). Like using someone from France, Germany, etc.

 

Not illegal

 

3) landlord/agent/owner walked in without knocking and without 24hr notice

Definitely in breach of contract - not illegal per se.

 

4) there is no formal complaints procedure (management apparently discusses issues with themselves. There are just 2 lines in a letter, without timings, or where i should file my complaint and how)

 

Not illegal

 

5) not giving me the opportunity to read the contract before signing, telling me had to sign there and then (on 2 occassions)

Not illegal, could possibly be construed as signing under duress, but I doubt that would hold up in court.

 

Besides that there arre some issues that are questionably if they are against the law:

1) lying on the phone several times

 

Obviously not illegal, what lies are we talking about?

 

2) not replying to letters

Not illegal, but certainly unprofessional.

 

3) electricity is redone but questionable if its done by certified person (friend discovered that oven is directly plugged into 13amp wall socket as is most of other kitchen equipment on that side)

 

Not illegal per se, but certainly leaves them open to liability in the case of any accidents.

 

4) not signing the response letter

 

So?

 

5) on the response letter the person doesnt state what her role is within the company (secretary or landlord???)

 

Again - so?

 

Hope this helps and you can help me sorting out this mess

 

You would be well advised to read through ARLA's code of conduct. None of what they have done is illegal, although entering the property is certainly in breach of contract. Therefore, your best bet is to see if they have breached the code of conduct of ARLA, as this is undoubtedly tighter than legal respects.

[LittleMissSunshine]

Hello MrShed

 

Thanks for the reply. I do have to say i dont completely agree with what you say, especially on two points. But as I see from your replies on these forums you have lots of expertise, maybe you can help me further clarifying the points for me.

 

1) putting up a for sale sign not being illegal. This seems odd to me. If i am a potential buyer how do I know that a house is for sale if what you say is true? If for example a car dealer would put a for sale sign on a car, and consumers come in wanting to buy that car and he says 'sorry this is not for sale' i can see that complaints will be filed regarding misleading consumer. But if you say that it is not illegal, can you provide me than with a law that states it is legal or what the rules are regarding these signs?

 

2) requesting guarantors to be both British citizin and living in Britain. I have to say this makes it very difficult for people to find guarantors. As I am from abroad, and so are all my relatives and by coincidence all of my friends, it means to no one ever can be a guarantor. Say for instance i can pursade Roman Abromovich to be my guarantor, you will have to turn him down as he is Russian. But I can see in this case you might not do that. But again if you say it is legal to have these demands, can you provide me with a law that states this? I think that as long as i can provide with a European guarantor this should not be a problem. It might be a bit more paperwork but nothing extraordinary.

 

As regarding ARLA code of conduct I have looked into this and can see on several points that they have not hold up to them. I will see if those people can help me further on this. Any help from you would be great too.

 

Regards,

LittleMissSunshine

[MrShed]

Laws do not state things are legal, they state they are illegal. Also, you have no proof that they are not selling. With respect, you do not have to follow my advice, if you disagree that is up to you. With regards the foreign guarantor, whats the point? If I have a tenant with a foreign guarantor, what legal procedures can I follow to reclaim the money? None. So I wouldn't do it. They have a choice as to who they will allow to be guarantor, they do not have to accept anyone.

[tallorder]

Hi There

 

Not actually on this site for housing, but came across this post.

 

I have an engineering background and am puzzled by some of your responses in this one. Being an engineer on several large scale projects brings you in direct contact with legalities which might have bearing here.

 

Where a document is produced with someones name on the bottom of it, in response to a series of questions, this would have to be verifiable at a later date.

 

To place this in your direct path, if I produced a document and put the name Miss MrShed, Chief Bottle Washer at the bottom of it. You later came across this and disputed you ever produced it, would you prefer a signature, your own, or a blank space?

 

A document without a signature can only be considered a draft and therefore not legally binding. Do you remember the piece of paper you have to sign for your driving licence/passport/bank account etc...? There is a reason for pen on paper!

 

How about a disgruntled employee that has some headed paper?

 

Signing a document gives confidence in the authenticity.

(No offence intended MRShed, just using an example)

 

As far as the electics are oncerned, it does state on the 'ARLA' website that all electrical equipment should be safety tested before a tenant moves in. Do you know if this was done?

 

Also, although ovens have become more reliable over the years, there are good reasons for their own circuit in domestic circumstances. Say for instance a pot of boiling water spills through the cooker. This creates a short circuit within the appliance, and ordinarily will trip the RCD (I hope no-one still has wire fuses!). Where the cable is connected to the cooker circuit ringmain, the 40amp cable hold and wil trip the 30amp RCD. If you have a significantly smaller fuse, say 13amp, there is a real risk of a 30amp pulse melting the fuse and the pins of a plug, thereby creating a 100amp+ connection. This will undoubtedly lead to the 40amp cable buring through, and will probably cause a fire which will not be limited to the kitchen.

 

Scary thought.

 

As for the point about requiring a British guarantor, let's just replace 'British' with some other nationality, say 'Chinese' or 'Irish' such as the signs from the 1950's "No Irish Allowed". Can you see this is definitely racist? I wouldn't like it and cannot condone or agree with it.

 

I can see a preference for a guarantor living in the UK. I cannot why it is a requirement. Equifax usually perform credit checks throughout Europe and the US, and yes, I include the UK in the Europe category. It may require two copies of documents, one in say, Polish and the other in English. I have known letting agents produce these documents in-house in Urdu and English, for a minimal extra charge. The Urdu was for the landlord.

 

I think the difference in cost is around the same as on extra reference.

 

I remember reading that some councils consider these 'For Sale/To Let' signs as a temporary instruction, but if up for more than two weeks, would have to apply for planning permission. I think this is a little over the top, but it is the same law that prohibits satellite dishes in some streets.

 

I also differ in the opinion that being forced to sign a contract without being given proper time to review it with your legal side would be deemed illegal under the 1982 Goods and Services Act. Remember the time share cooling off period? This was brought about because so many people were herded into a locked eminar room and weren't allowed to leave until signing up for a 'Costa Del Nowhere' time share.

 

Can it be legal for someone to sell a house to themself? My suggestion is ask HMRC Tax office. Ask if this wuld be fraudulent as there may be tax evasion on stamp duty...

 

Formal complaints procedures need not be lengthy, but TWO LINES? It should outline either by title/role what happens. If arbitration were needed, ACAS would ask for a copy of this procedure. If the organisation is a one-man (or woman [PC alert]) band, then this would be difficult to define as it becomes a one on one disagreement. Not easy.

 

Organisations who have more than 4 employees, should have a formal complaints procedure detailing who is responsible and how to escalate. There also needs to be a reporting schedule which could be as simple as 'We will contact you in writing within 10 working days from receipt of your complaint.'

 

The landlord walks in without knocking...

 

...this is technically breaking and entering. Ask your local Police. Unless the landlord has been invited into YOUR HOME, even though it is THEIR HOUSE, they open themselves up to the law of TRESPASS. This is a serious matter, often not pursued as victimisation and intimidation can result - after all, the landlord knows where you live...

 

Why would they not reply to letters? Could it be they do not want to acknowledge their errors? If something is acknowledged, such as forcing you to sign a contract, then this would open up a legal route for recourse. It sounds like avoidance of obligations and incredibly poor customer service.

 

I agree with MrShed, that this is highly unprofessional.

 

Hope you can get things sorted without a legal route, but check with your local Citizen's Advice Bureau about your concerns. They may help you discuss issues with ARLA and your Landlord/Agency.

 

Hope this helps

TallOrder

[MrShed]

Hi TO, thanks for your opinions on my points. In reply:

 

- It is not illegal to NOT sign a letter. Yes, obviously difficult for them then to rely on it, but certainly not illegal.

 

- My point with the signature of the tenancy is that the poster could have simply refused to sign. And there is no cool off period with tenancy agreements.

 

- A guarantor who is not resident in the UK is worth less than the paper it is written on. I am a decent landlord, but I would not accept such a guarantor. It is not racism, as there are GENUINE practical reasons for doing it. My point has nothing to do with being able to credit check etc. It is because if the guarantor is not resident in the UK, I have absolutely zero legal recourse to be able to retrieve any money. Therefore, rejecting them comes under the category of I have good reason to believe that the guarantor will not be willing or able to fulfil their duties as guarantor.

 

- The point about the landlord entering completely depends upon what reason they entered for. It is definitely not trespass or breaking and entering - the property is his own. However, if it was for the purposes of chasing rent or anything similar, then the landlord could be guilty of harrassment. And he is certainly in breach of the tenancy agreement in doing this also.

 

I fully agree that this agent has clearly not acted professionally, and has perhaps been even underhand in their approach. But as far as I can see there is NO breach in criminal law. There MAY be breaches of contract, which would come under civil law, but this cannot be described as "illegal".

[blacksheep1979]

Agree 100% with MrShed on this, nothing illegal just maybe not as proffesional as you may have wished. As to the for sale sign etc - you can put a for sale sign on anything you own, but refuse to sell to anyone for any reason (as long as it isn't for reasons such as race/gender etc). As such the house may be for sale - if someone offered the landlord £1 million I am fairly sure that he would sell.

 

I would ask the landlord/agents to provide proof that the electrics have been installed and tested by qualified technicians and that if you have any gas devices that there is a current gas safety certificate which has been issued by a CORGI reg'd technician.

[LittleMissSunshine]

Thank you all for replying. I am still confused and not happy with the situation but you posts have been helpfull

I think however I do have some issues that need to be solved and as suggested will at least contact ARLA to see what they can advice me (just asking if my agency/landlord have not handled according to their code of conduct and what they can do to improve)

Also i will probably visit citizens advice for fully understanding the issue regarding sale signs, guarantors and electrics. I am not totally happy with the answers here and feel that basically the landlord can do whatever they want and the tenant dont have much rights in these situations.

 

I have to say I had over 3 years good experience with my landlord until the issue of illegal conversion came up. Since than they have been not professional in their way of working. I just want them to admit this, acknowledge that they have made mistakes/not been professional, dont break any promisses they make (as they have done) and work together to improve the situation. It sounds so simple, yet it seems so hard to be done in reality.

 

None of this would have happened if they would have been honest and open from their side from the beginning and responded to letters i have sent.

 

Thanks all for advice

LittleMissSunshine

[MrShed]

LMS, again with the utmost respect, it appears that you just want us to give you the answers that you want to hear. And, to be honest, with the issues you have listed, I haven't even REALLY seen anywhere that your rights have been infringed anyway, other than the landlord entering the property, which is unacceptable(although you have still not given us the reason for him entering). Why does the sale sign bother you? And surely you can see the reasoning behind the guarantor point? It is unfair to say "the landlord can do whatever he wants and the tenant doesnt have much rights", as most of the issues you have listed do not particularly concern the tenant anyway, or if they do it is only fair on the landlord(guarantor issue for example).

 

But, if you are going to pursue until you can find the answers you want to hear, at least dont go to Citizens Advice - they are worse than useless. Shelter would probably be more helpful.

[simonjohn]

Mr Shed, please dont take this the wrong way but my interpretation of the initial poster was that they had an initial tenancey without the need for a guarentor, however because the have made a complaint the landlord now requires a guarentor.

 

In my view this is not only unfair but potentially illegal under the race relations act, and i for one would consider making a representation to the racial equality board.

[MrShed]

No simonjohn, fair point - having re-read you are right, that could be the case.

[simonjohn]

No simonjohn, fair point - having re-read you are right, that could be the case.

 

Thats ok Mr Shed I for one value your posts And may be in need of some advice from you soon, But sometimes needs a second view or playing devils advocate. But non the less your posts on here are 99.9% accurate

 

take care

 

simon

[MrShed]

Hey I always welcome correction and constructive criticism and hope I can help with yours when it come up SJ!

[blacksheep1979]

Or the guarantour part may have come about regarding the fact the op is now renting the whole property rather than just one flat - this is bound to be more expensive and may have concerned the landlord as to wether the op could afford it. I think he could avoid any racial problems by the fact that he has happily had the op living in one of his properties for some time.

[simonjohn]

Or the guarantour part may have come about regarding the fact the op is now renting the whole property rather than just one flat - this is bound to be more expensive and may have concerned the landlord as to wether the op could afford it. I think he could avoid any racial problems by the fact that he has happily had the op living in one of his properties for some time.

 

But also by virtue of the fact, the landlord has no reason to expect the tennant to default on any payment arrangement they have agrreed. As you have assumed that so far they have been happy so far with their payment artrangement. so what is the need for a gurentor.

[blacksheep1979]

maybe the op has missed payments in the past? (No offence meant) maybe the rent on the whole building as opposed to one flat is significantly more, maybe since the op first moved in the landlord has had his fingers burnt by another tennant elsewhere and wants more security - there could be many reasons.

[rosysparkle]

The for sale/sold sign is a red herring, IMO - even if a sign did go up saying SSTC, that doesn't mean that the sale actually took place. Sales do fail at the last minute!

 

If the OP passed the initial credit checks at a rent of £x but now the property is a house rather than a flat, and the rent is considerably higher, that may explain the need for a guarantor.

[LittleMissSunshine]

Hi All

 

to clarify:

I have never been late with paying or missed any payments.

The rent for the total house is 50 pounds more (although now excl gas, water, elect, was included before) for the first 6 months. After that probably increase in rent.

 

Regards

LittleMissSunshine

[tallorder]

Hello Again

 

Just been reading some of MrShed's other posts - truly a goldmine of knowledge.

 

As a little aside, the only other situation I can think of relating to a similar arrangement is that of hire cars.

 

When someone takes out a rental agreement on property (such as house, car, scooter, aircraft, tanker, etc) there is an implicit transfer of ownership and safekeeping inherant in the arrangement. As such, the legal owner must by rights give up posessesion of their property for the duration of the contract. It is typical that such property can have more than one insurance.

 

During the time the contract remains in force and is not breached, effectively, the legal owner has only secondary access rights to the driver/occupier/pilot etc.

 

In one case of a standard rental of property, the owner assumed that as they owned the building, they still had rights of access, which although ULTIMATELY, this is true there are specific reasons why on a day to day basis the owner of a property can be guilty of trespass on their own property.

 

A few examples:

 

BA Lease several aircraft from Boeing, yet every time they want access, they must have the legal courtesy to ask. BA have become the effective owners for the duration of their contract, though Boeing have the 'deeds'. Failure to do so would result in various charges being brought against them.

 

Hire car firms always have spare keys to their cars. If, after hiring the vehicle an employee were to enter the vehicle without permission of the hirer whilst the contract were in force, they could be charged with attempted theft.

 

Sadly the same principle appears with buildings. Ignoring the fact that the shiny newish James Bond building on the Thames is home to MI5, it is again rented by them. It has a contract and the owner must ask for permission to enter 'his/it's' building, or will automatically be guilty of trespass (amongst other things!).

 

This is why formal contracts specifically state that a landlord cnnot enter their own property (except in an emergency) without 24 hours prior notice. This is just to keep things clear and above board.

 

LMS: How long have you been in this property, having never missed a payment?

 

Cheers

TallOrder

 

[LittleMissSunshine]

Hi Tallorder

 

In the property for over 3.5 years now. Never had the problem of trespassing before, just since all the mess in September started.

Its not really something I want to take the Landlord to court over, although I know I can. But its a right I will make sure is not going to be violated again.

 

Its I think a simple gesture from the landlord to let me know when he/she wants to come around especially if its early in the morning. For all good reasons, imagine that I would have been in the shower at that moment or in bed with boyfriend . A hugely embarassing situation, although dont know for whom more.

 

The time they came over they didnt even knock (dont have doorbell or knocker, so you really have to bang the door to make yourself heard) or shouted a 'hello anyone home' when they entered the house. Requests for doorbell or new knocker have been declined, apparently that is something i have to take care of

 

Anyway am going to write a letter to agency/landlord this week and ask politely for some explanations. Hopefully they reply this time promptly

 

Will post update as soon as i have one

 

Cheers

LMS

[blacksheep1979]

Its not really something I want to take the Landlord to court over, although I know I can.

 

hey you can take someone to court over anything, but you will be deemed a vexatious litigant.

 

Whilst it may be construed as trespass you are not automatically able to claim any damages unless you have suffered loss or damage in any way.

[LittleMissSunshine]

Just an update, I have sent a nice letter to the landlord regarding the questions i have, so its now sit back and wait for there reply.

 

As for the 'for sale sign', well why i keep going on about it is that is has been bothering me. Imagine you are renting a property, all goes well, and than one morning you wake up and out of the blue there is a for sale sign in the front garden. You think "what is going on?" So for this I think some information from the landlord/agent up front is nice to get and not so shocking.

 

But besides that, done some digging online and yes there are rules relating to these kind of signs. They apparently fall under outdoor advertising.

 

Class 3(A) permits boards to be displayed by such firms as estate agents, chartered surveyors, auctioneers and valuers, advertising that land or premises are for sale or to let.

And, if a Class 3 advertisement relates to a sale or event, it must not be displayed more than 28 days before the sale or event begins and must be removed within 14 days after it ends. (Home - Communities and Local Government)

 

So you cant just put up a for sale sign if the house is not for sale and the agency told me the sign was for advertising purposes. Clearly something went wrong here. But I am awaiting their reply on it.

 

Keep you posted

LMS

[blacksheep1979]

yes, but the house could currently be for sale - so it is 'during the event'