Nationwide Credit Card - In a Twist!

[illonavamp]

I'm in a right twist with Nationwide Credit Card.

 

I am a contractor and as such am paid weekly.

 

Problem No 1

I told Nationwide this and said that I can more than make the minimum payment, but have to do it over, say, four weeks. So: say min payment is #200.00, I'd pay them #50 a week. They agreed to this, however

 

They apply late charges to my account. When I queried them I reminded them that they had agreed I pay the minimum amount over four weeks, as I get paid weekly. They said 'yes but as you dont physically pay the minimum amount when its due, you incur late charges.

 

So they are piling up on the card.

 

Problem No 2

In September 2006 I phoned them and asked them to cancel the Credit Life charges on the account. They said fine, they'd send me the form to cancel it and I should send it back to them and they'd cancel it. The form came, I signed, posted. A while later my statement came through with the credit life charges still being applied. I called them and they said that they never received the form, and that they'd send another. I received another, signed it, sent it back. A while later my statement came through with the credit life charges still being applied (see the pattern?). A short while after this I got a letter saying 'thankyou for your request to cancel, due to an admin error on our part we can't find your original application for a card, would you please sign the attached credit agreement'. I called them and said that the credit agreement they sent me has nothing to do with me cancelling credit life and that I wasn't going to send them any more money until they cancelled my credit life charges. They have now issued a default notice against me asking for the card balance in FULL.

 

Does anyone have any advice to give me, what can I do about this? I'm desperately upset about this whole mess and will NEVER have a card with Nationwide again.

[lookinforinfo]

Illona, are you saying that they are asking you to sign a new Nationwide

credit card application form.?

 

And when you talk about Credit Life charges, do you mean you are paying

life assurance premiums? Has the bank cancelled the direct debit yet?

Once I have the picture I will get back to you. Whatever you do, do NOT sign

that form.

[illonavamp]

Illona, are you saying that they are asking you to sign a new Nationwide

credit card application form.?

>>> yes, they lost my original one, they say, so they say they can't verify my signature

 

And when you talk about Credit Life charges, do you mean you are paying

life assurance premiums?

>>> No its the credit card protection thing you can opt for, underwritten by credit life - least thats what shows up on my statement

 

Has the bank cancelled the direct debit yet?

>>> no direct debit, it comes straight off my credit card, and they are charging interest against what they've taken off

 

Once I have the picture I will get back to you. Whatever you do, do NOT sign that form.

>>> I wont!

 

Appreciate your help, no clue what to do next....

[gizmo111]

Up to you how you play this but no agreement means the debt is unenforceable.

[lookinforinfo]

First, write to them asking them to remove the default if they cannot produce

your authority for them to process your data.

If the credit life protection was included in the agreement, rather than a

separate contract, they do not have your permission to continue charging.

 

Then as Gizmo rightly says, you have a choice. You can carry on with

Nationwide if you want, or you can walk away. Might depend on how much

you can reclaim from their unlawful charges compared to what you owe.

 

PS If I was Nationwide, I would cancel your card -not for anything you

have done wrong, but because legally I don't have a contract with you.

[illonavamp]

Appreciate some clarification here please:

 

First, write to them asking them to remove the default if they cannot produce your authority for them to process your data.

 

>>> So, if they can't find my original application, they can't produce a default notice?

 

If the credit life protection was included in the agreement, rather than a

separate contract, they do not have your permission to continue charging.

 

>>> This thing is underwritten by someone else (Credit Life I guess). However when I phoned them to cancel it it was Nationwide who sent me cancellation form, and Nationwide I sent it back to - that makes them an acting agent doesn't it and therefore responsible for actions on the policy?

 

Then as Gizmo rightly says, you have a choice. You can carry on with

Nationwide if you want, or you can walk away. Might depend on how much

you can reclaim from their unlawful charges compared to what you owe.

 

>>> My question here is what I can claim, I was going to ask them to refund ALL the Credit Life charges they have taken since I instructed them to cancel the policy, plus interest and late charges they applied after taking the payments.

 

PS If I was Nationwide, I would cancel your card -not for anything you

have done wrong, but because legally I don't have a contract with you.

 

>>> I can't walk away because I don't have the money to pay it off in full, they are threatening a CCJ so what can I do here? Make them an offer?

[gemspan]

Hi there

 

They cannot threaten a CCJ because they dont have a credit agreement. Technically, you owe them nothing because you have not entered into an agreement with them. I think they were sending you a new agreement to sign because they knew this to be the case.

 

Send them a CCA letter with £1 and wait 12 days for them not to produce the agreement. After 12 days write to them and advise them that, as they cannot produce the credit agreement the debt is unenforceable and you do not acknowledge the debt. The only way they can get this enforced is by court order and if they go to court without a credit agreement then they dont have a leg to stand on.

 

Advise them that you want them to remove the default from the CRA with immediate effect as you have no credit agreement with them.

 

Good luck. Dont worry. You are in a very strong position. A much stronger position than Nationwide. Can I ask what is the balance due on the card? How much do you calculate the charges to be?

 

Kind regards

Gemspan

[lookinforinfo]

What Gemspan has said is exactly right. Everything stems from the original

agreement. It specifies the rules relating to the running of the card, the APR

and your permission to inform Credit Reference Agencies, debt collectors

etc. etc. Without the original agreement they do not have a legal document

in their hands that confirms your agreement to their terms.

 

So they cannot provide CRAs with any info on you-either good or bad-and

certainly not bad. CCJs are a definite no no for them. As are defaults-they

must remove them end of story. Or at least until they can find your original

contract.

 

I asked about Credit Life since all that is sometimes required is to tick a box

on the contract confirming you want the protection. Not sure how that pans

out if you have also to sign a further agreement with Credit Life.

 

As it stands, you do not even have to make them an offer. You are under no

legal obligation to pay them a penny. However you obviously have a moral

one, and they could yet turn up the original contract. But I should think that

they should be pretty amenable to cancelling the charges caused by their

own inefficiency.

[gemspan]

Hi

 

Yes, legally you dont owe them a thing but morally you know that you do. That is the dilemma. However, I think what is really annoying people is the way that these companies treat honest people who are trying their hardest to repay their debts but through unforeseen circumstances are unable to do so. There are people out there that will take the legal situation as a way out of paying their debts and of course legally they are entitled to do that. How that will affect them in the future though is a different story because, as we all know, all these companies seem to be interlinked in some way these days.

 

Because you are in such a strong position, I would contact them and make them come to the negotiating table. Perhaps you could negotiate to have the charges and interest waived, leaving the initial sum to repay at a rate YOU can afford that is not going to cause you financial hardship. After all, if they had complied with the law in the first place this would not have happened.

 

Good luck

Gemspan

[illonavamp]

Ooooh goodness, thankyou SO MUCH for this information, I really had no clue what to do next.

 

"Send them a CCA letter with £1 and wait 12 days for them not to produce the agreement."

 

>>> I'm guessing thats on the site somewhere - I shall look for it.

 

"Advise them that, as they cannot produce the credit agreement the debt is unenforceable and you do not acknowledge the debt."

 

>>> You know, I did consider that, and I may well do if only to buy some time.

 

"I asked about Credit Life since all that is sometimes required is to tick a box on the contract confirming you want the protection. Not sure how that pans out if you have also to sign a further agreement with Credit Life."

 

>>> I'm sure I did tick a box at the time I took the card (2001) but since the balance was getting so big I stopped using the card to get it down a bit, and it was then I noticed the charges coming off (165.00 a time!) which was when I asked them to cancel it.

 

"Perhaps you could negotiate to have the charges and interest waived, leaving the initial sum to repay at a rate YOU can afford that is not going to cause you financial hardship."

 

>>> That's really all I want to do, I want to get it to the amount that I owe and start paying again. What gets my goat is that they're doing all this against a debt THEY MADE.

 

"Good luck. Dont worry. You are in a very strong position. A much stronger position than Nationwide. Can I ask what is the balance due on the card? How much do you calculate the charges to be?"

 

>>> The balance they are asking for in full is 9751.97. Of which, I'd say over 1000 of that is credit life charges, late fees and interest, though I haven't made any exact calculations.

 

 

 

 

Thank you much for this information, I'm a tad calmer than I was when I opened the letter. No, to find that CCA letter.

[illonavamp]

Is this the CCA letter:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/586-credit-store-card-letter.html

 

?

 

Thks

[illonavamp]

"Illona, are you saying that they are asking you to sign a new Nationwide

credit card application form.?"

 

>>> yes, they are.

[illonavamp]

I think I found the CCA letter, this is what I plan to send:

 

============================

Dear Sirs,

I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further.

- a true copy of the agreement(s) I signed that you refer to in these matters outlined in your letter 6th February, namely

1. A true copy of the signed nationwide credit card agreement

2. A true copy of the signed consumer credit act agreement, if this is different.

3. A true copy of the signed 'credit card protection' application, if this is different.

This is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 - your obligation also extends to providing statements of account. I enclose a £3 cheque in payment of the statutory fee.

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply this documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the CCA 1974.

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

I am now initiating investigations into the validity of the debt, various charges, interest and late fees made on this account, and will be in contact with you again in due course.

Additionally, you have entered a default notice against my credit record. This default occurred merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by you, or was the result of impecuniosity caused directly by the taking by you of charges applied after cancellation and penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account.

I require that you remove the default entry from the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable.

In the meantime please be aware that I consider this matter to be “in dispute”.

Your reply is required within the next 12 days.

============================

Does this look decent?

[illonavamp]

~bump

 

I sent this yesaterday.

 

[pmhcfc]

~bump

 

I sent this yesaterday.

 

 

Didn't you put anywhere on the letter 'I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY' ?

[gemspan]

Hi there

 

It is always advisable to put that sentence on communication but when you are just asking for a copy of all the agreements then I wonder if you really need to do that! If they can't produce it then it wont be enforceable anyway. The OP recognises that he/she owes the money but not what they say he/she owes so the debt will be paid once all this information is to hand.

 

Kind rgards

Gemspan

[illonavamp]

I see,

 

After reading some threads here I 'gathered' that its the norm to ask for them first and if they are unable to provide them to make the 'I do not acknowledge' statement in a further letter.

 

What I really want them to do is take the Default Notice off, I don't care about anything else at the moment.

 

Thanks for letting me know anyway, I'll keep you all posted.

 

Sam

[illonavamp]

I am still getting letters from their debt collection agency, and they still haven't produced a valid copy of any signed agreement.

 

Sorry to be a pain but can anyone point me to a letter I can send that would put an end to it.

 

Thanks

[illonavamp]

Ok,

 

This morning I received court documents from Swindon County Court for the full value of the card, how should I respond to this? I am terrified now.

 

The facts are that I sent Nationwide CC a letter (as above) in February and they have never produced me a copy of the signed agreement.

 

It says in their court papers (quote "In August 2000 the claimant and defendant made an agreement for a credit card. By failing to use the credit card in accordance with the terms agreed between the Claimant and the Defendant and by failing to repay the unauthorised borrowing against the account on demand, the Defendant is in breach of the terms of the credit card agreement. The claimant claims the full amount outstanding from the Defendant."

 

There is NO copy of the credit agreement with my signature on it.

 

How should I proceed with this? What should I put in my defence?

 

help? ~shake

 

Sam

[gemspan]

Hi Sam

 

Firstly, calm down!!!!

 

Are there unlawful charges on this amount? If so, the amount they are claiming is wrong in the first place.

 

Secondly, they have not produced an agreement therefore they are breaking the law by taking this further.

 

I am sure that somebody with more experience will be along shortly to give you more detailed advice but basically you have a strong case for a complaint to all the authorities for their actions and a strong defence to any action they are taking against you.

 

Gemspan

[illonavamp]

Yes there are unlawful charges, dating back to last year at least. And yes, they have NEVER produced a copy of the signed credit agreement despite my asking in writing. Thanks I really need some advice here, I'm in a panic...

[gemspan]

Hi Sam

 

Well, that is your defence. Advise that you disputed the amount owed and asked them to provide a copy of the original credit agreement which is your right under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. They failed to provide the agreement within the specified time and have never produced the agreement to date.

 

Perhaps you could pm someone re this. I know priorityone is very good in this area. I hope this helps.

 

Please dont panic. You are in a very strong position. If they cant produce the agreement then the debt is unenforceable. simple as that.

 

Good luck

Annie

[illonavamp]

OK, thats put my mind at rest some. I'd have thought that they'd at least attach a copy of what I signed if they had it. So should I say exactly that on my defence?

 

My other question is, even if they can't, could they say "Well you were paying this off until last year so this must be your debt"...??

[gemspan]

Have a look at this thread Sam. It will help you decide what to put in your defence. I havent had this problem so cant really help but the info is here.

 

Good luck

Annie

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/83035-guidelines-requests-original-agreement.html

[illonavamp]

Thanks Annie thats useful. I've put a post up there as I really need someone to tell me what words to put in my defence. Haven't slept very well for a few days argh!

 

Sam