Spreadsheet with interest

[geedels]

In doing the calculations for the interest (not the 8%) for my monument credit card, there are some months when I am charged interest but not a fee.

In these situations should I ommit that statements details altogether? Or can I still charge them cumulative interest?

For example, I discovered by accident that if I have no fee, but am charged 18.87 interest in a given month when my statement balance is 815.55, the interest on penalties, (even though that month there were no penalties) works out as 17 quid.

I take it I shouldn't be including such months on the spreadsheet? Can you confirm this for me please...

[bill-k]

Include all these months, as the interest charged each subsequent month includes an amount charged on the previous accumulated penalties. In effect, you will have more entries on this side of the spready than on the penalty charges side,

[kirstetten]

Help! I can't access the chambers, I keep getting this message

We're sorry, but [email protected] does not have access to this document.

You are signed in as [email protected], but that email account hasn't been granted permission to this document. (Sign in as a different user)

 

What am I doing wrong?

 

*feels stupid*

[bill-k]

Just an announcement from Batty Bill here. Vampiress has announced that her Google Chambers will be closed for a while, as they are undergoing a "Re-Vamp"

Mindzai's spreadsheet will not be affected by this, and should still be available.

 

For those needing compound interest spreadies, this is available for download, along with Excel versions of Vamp's Recommended #5 and #16 spreadies here:

 

http://www.cagmembers.go2.to/

[Mindzai]

If you want mine please get it from here rather than the link in Bills post above as that leads to a previous version.

[bill-k]

Sorry Mindzai - I uploaded your latest, but it hasn't been linked online, yet. To avoid confusion, I'll ask for it to be removed.

[Mindzai]

No problem. If I'd thought about it I should have just called them all the same thing then logged the revision number in the sheet itself to avoid updating links every time

[Sk1ntBint]

EYE-EYE!!!

 

I keep seeing on this site (also on Mindzai's sheet) that you can EITHER claim the compounded int OR the 8% stat when you go to court. But check this cheeky beggar here who appears to have got both in his final settlement!!!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/first-direct/43217-androobe-fd-2.html#post529249

 

Not trying to be clever here but surely people are wasting their money if they aren't claiming this and it's possible to get?

[bill-k]

Thank you, Sk1ntbint. I have PM'd Androobe for details.

 

People have often confused claiming contractual interest with re-claiming the interest they were originally charged by the bank. This is not clear from his thread, but if he really has succeeded, then I believe we have a milestone, here !! I eagerly await his reply.

[Mad Nick]

bill-k,

People have often confused claiming contractual interest with re-claiming the interest they were originally charged by the bank.

Call me a pedant ("Mad Nick's a pedant") but I don't agree with your implication that reclaiming the actual interest levied does not come under the heading of "contractual interest". Without getting into the rights & wrongs of each approach, as far as I can see "contractual interest" actually covers both approaches :

• reclaiming the interest charged at the "contractual interest" rates they levied on the charges; and
  
• levying interest on the charges they took unlawfully at a "contractual interest" rate, either the authorised or unauthorised overdraft rate.

I agree it's important to be clear which you are doing, though. Regards, Mad Nick

[bill-k]

Yes, thank you Nick, I agree. Contractual interest covers the interest which was charged by them, as well as that which is about to be charged by us. But that is where I think it confuses people. I really would like to see some way of clearly distinguishing between the two in our terminology. Perhaps something like "Primary Contractual" and "Secondary Contractual" or just "Penalties Interest" and "Total Claim Interest."

 

Any better suggestions anybody ?

 

I do think that, unfortunately, the pedantics are the cause of the confusion at present.

[k65]

hello thanks for the spreadsheet iv filled it in and have 2 small(i hope) problems

the interest on penalties is 0.00

 

and on the 8% i have an error in value

 

i know lots of things, about lots of things, but spreadsheets i know little

one further question should i be adding the interest, charged to me by the bank onto my claim ?

many thanks les

[bill-k]

Les, what spreadsheet are you using, first of all ?

Secondly, you can claim the interest charged on your penalties, but you don't have to. Choice is yours, and it really depends on whether it is worth the time & effort in your case.

HTH

[k65]

advanced excel one off the site, ok bit dumb, the interest charged on my penalties or the interest i have been charged because of my penalties.

my penalties total £5249.00

[JustJon]

Yes, thank you Nick, I agree. Contractual interest covers the interest which was charged by them, as well as that which is about to be charged by us. But that is where I think it confuses people. I really would like to see some way of clearly distinguishing between the two in our terminology. Perhaps something like "Primary Contractual" and "Secondary Contractual" or just "Penalties Interest" and "Total Claim Interest."

 

I agree (and I'm sure many others will as well) that its very confusing and I think it needs even clearer clarification in the FAQ.

 

I think in the case mentioned above he means that he's received - Charges + the interest he's paid on the charges (which he's called contractual) + 8% Statutory. Am I right in thinking this would tie in with the "common knowledge" in the FAQ?

 

While I'm here (sorry, I know its been asked and asked, but I keep reading conflicting information), regarding the 8% statutory vs contractual -

 

1) You are not meant to ask for the 8% statutory until you prepare you court claim. Correct?

 

2) If you are entitled to at least 8% statutory, why are you not allowed to request it from the bank? Presumably, if you have not requested it and they offer to settle in full before court, you have lost out on the 8%. In which case it would be better for you, if the whole thing got to the "court papers" stage and you got the chance to ask for your 8%.

 

3) You should include your contractual interest claim (interest that your charging the bank for using your money) on the prelim letter and do not have to wait until court. Correct?

 

4) This contractual interest would then be used instead of the 8% statutory which would no longer apply and you shouldn't claim. Correct?

 

5) All of the above is in addition to claiming back both your charges and the interest you've paid on those charges. Correct?

 

6) So in total you should be claiming: Charges + Interest on the charges + either 8% statutory OR ???% contractual. Correct?

 

Any definitive answers would be appreciated, as I just need to have it clear in my mind before I proceed.

 

Thanks.

[Mindzai]

1) You are not meant to ask for the 8% statutory until you prepare you court claim. Correct?

 

Correct

 

2) If you are entitled to at least 8% statutory, why are you not allowed to request it from the bank? Presumably, if you have not requested it and they offer to settle in full before court, you have lost out on the 8%. In which case it would be better for you, if the whole thing got to the "court papers" stage and you got the chance to ask for your 8%.

You are not entitled to claim it until it reaches court as this is the court's decided method and rate of awarding interest. In a sense you do lose this interest if they settle before your court claim is filed.

 

3) You should include your contractual interest claim (interest that your charging the bank for using your money) on the prelim letter and do not have to wait until court. Correct?

 

Correct

 

4) This contractual interest would then be used instead of the 8% statutory which would no longer apply and you shouldn't claim. Correct?

 

Correct

 

5) All of the above is in addition to claiming back both your charges and the interest you've paid on those charges. Correct?

 

Correct

 

6) So in total you should be claiming: Charges + Interest on the charges + either 8% statutory OR ???% contractual. Correct?

 

Correct

[bill-k]

advanced excel one off the site, ok bit dumb, the interest charged on my penalties or the interest i have been charged because of my penalties.

my penalties total £5249.00

The spreadies in the site library only calculate simple interest. For contractual interest, you need to use the correct spready. Vamp's Google ones are temporarily unavailable at the moment, but Mindzai's will do this job.

1) You are not meant to ask for the 8% statutory until you prepare you court claim. Correct?

 

2) If you are entitled to at least 8% statutory, why are you not allowed to request it from the bank? Presumably, if you have not requested it and they offer to settle in full before court, you have lost out on the 8%. In which case it would be better for you, if the whole thing got to the "court papers" stage and you got the chance to ask for your 8%.

Although I have always claimed contractual interest, this apparent inability to claim 8% statutory directly from the bank has niggled me. I personally believe that one should be able to claim 8% interest directly from the banks (ie., in one's prelim & LBA) - provided one states something like "in lieu of statutory interest." In the claim, though, one simply deletes the "in lieu of" bit. Never tried it, though.

[Sk1ntBint]

6) So in total you should be claiming: Charges + Interest on the charges + either 8% statutory OR ???% contractual. Correct?

Santa Maria!!! This has really got my brain dribbling out of my ears here :o I thought I was being thick but it does appear that the stuff on this site does need a bit of clarification after all. No idea what is going on with that Mindzai sheet.

 

All I've been trying to do is use the following (Bill K helped me here) to calculate the interest on a particular charge.

 

interest =C11*((1+($E$3/365))^E11)-C11

 

interest =[charge amount]*((1+([interest e.g. 0.159]/365))^[days since offense])-[charge amount]

 

So I have a total of my charges (i.e. OVER LIMIT FEE) in one column and a total of all these interest calculations for each charge in another (e.g. £400 charges and £80 interest) - then I add the two to make the claim figure. Now you say I can charge interest on the whole lot as well? :o

 

I might have to use my claimed back money for a lobotomy

[ladybird17]

if you reckon you need a lobotomy then I may as well just chop my head off! I understand what contractual & compounded IS & when to claim it but what you are saying above looks like a foreign language to me!I am having a bit of a nightmare with the spreadsheets, but a couple of very lovely people have offered to help me out, which is great.

[JustJon]

Thanks for all you responses.

 

You are not entitled to claim it until it reaches court as this is the court's decided method and rate of awarding interest. In a sense you do lose this interest if they settle before your court claim is filed.

 

Why are you not entitled to claim it? Where has the information/opinion come from that you shouldn't claim it from the start?

 

If you (and they) know this is what the court will award and is therefore a justified rate of interest, can you not just say "I'm claiming interest from you and I'm basing this interest on what a court would award and obviously sees as fair."

 

Although I have always claimed contractual interest, this apparent inability to claim 8% statutory directly from the bank has niggled me. I personally believe that one should be able to claim 8% interest directly from the banks (ie., in one's prelim & LBA) - provided one states something like "in lieu of statutory interest." In the claim, though, one simply deletes the "in lieu of" bit. Never tried it, though.

 

I totally agree. What I don't understand is why anyone would be claiming statutory when they can claim contractual. Apart from the very few cases where there is no contractual rate or its less than the statutory, you would just be doing yourself out of money for no reason. Is it because you will face less opposition with statutory than contractual? Are there any others reasons?

[Mindzai]

if you reckon you need a lobotomy then I may as well just chop my head off! I understand what contractual & compounded IS & when to claim it but what you are saying above looks like a foreign language to me!I am having a bit of a nightmare with the spreadsheets, but a couple of very lovely people have offered to help me out, which is great.

 

You don't need to worry about the sums, all of the above goes on behind the scenes of the spreadsheet.

 

All you need to do is enter some simple information (the date you were charged, the amount you were charged, the date you were charged interest, the amount of interest you were charged and the balance of your account on the date interest was charged). Once you have done this the spreadsheets will give you a list of everything you can claim, charge by charge.

 

Why are you not entitled to claim it? Where has the information/opinion come from that you shouldn't claim it from the start?

 

If you (and they) know this is what the court will award and is therefore a justified rate of interest, can you not just say "I'm claiming interest from you and I'm basing this interest on what a court would award and obviously sees as fair."

 

Statutory interest is only applicable to filed claims. You could certainly try asking the banks for it, but you have no legal basis for doing so, and they can (and likely will) say no. Contractual interest is different in that it is separate to the small claims procedure, therefore there is no stipulation that it can only be applied to a filed claim. For more information, Patricia Pearl's 'Small Claims Procedure: A Practical Guide" is a good read.

[JustJon]

Statutory interest is only applicable to filed claims. You could certainly try asking the banks for it, but you have no legal basis for doing so, and they can (and likely will) say no. Contractual interest is different in that it is separate to the small claims procedure, therefore there is no stipulation that it can only be applied to a filed claim. For more information, Patricia Pearl's 'Small Claims Procedure: A Practical Guide" is a good read.

 

Thanks again for the response, its slowly becoming clearer.

 

But... if one was to claim statutory from the start, either:

 

1) The bank would refuse to pay the interest, the case would end up going to court and they would then be forced to pay = You get your interest

 

2) The bank pays the interest = You get your interest (If you didn't put it in you wouldn't get it)

 

If this is the case, why would you not put it in the original claim? aren't you just covering all your bases? Or am I missing something?

 

-----------

 

Also why would somone claim statutory if they can claim contractual?

 

Thanks.

[Mindzai]

Thanks again for the response, its slowly becoming clearer.

 

But... if one was to claim statutory from the start, either:

 

1) The bank would refuse to pay the interest, the case would end up going to court and they would then be forced to pay = You get your interest

 

No. If they refuse to pay the interest but offer you all of your charges back before you have filed a claim, you have to take the money. You have no legal basis for claiming statutory interest because it is specifically for filed claims. If you refused full settlement because they didn't include something which you have no basis to claim, a Judge would not be at all impressed and the bank could easily argue that you are a vexatious litigant.

 

why would somone claim statutory if they can claim contractual?

 

Because statutory is automatically applicable and not arguable. Contractual interest is more risky in that a bank can challenge it.

[bill-k]

Thanks again for the response, its slowly becoming clearer.

 

But... if one was to claim statutory from the start, either:

 

1) The bank would refuse to pay the interest, the case would end up going to court and they would then be forced to pay = You get your interest

 

2) The bank pays the interest = You get your interest (If you didn't put it in you wouldn't get it)

 

If this is the case, why would you not put it in the original claim? aren't you just covering all your bases? Or am I missing something?

 

-----------

 

Also why would somone claim statutory if they can claim contractual?

 

Thanks.

As Mindzai says, it's in PP, and I'm sure it is covered in more detail in the CPR rules. I don't know my way round these, but others here will probably know. But I do feel that, until we submit a claim to the SCC, we may if we wish demand anything we like from the banks, and they can pay up, haggle or refuse outright. The less we claim, the more likely we are to get it without too much of a fight - and this is why many people will only claim 8% statutory, I believe.

However, if we are not basing our claim on any particular principle (eg contractual reciprocity or statutory award) then we are also not in a strong position to argue with them.

 

Another reasom why people only claim statutory is because they believe contractual is just too complicated. It is not, and is as simple to claim as statutory. Trouble is - the arguments and reasoning for and against it make it seem so complicated, methinks !!!

[bill-k]

Santa Maria!!! This has really got my brain dribbling out of my ears here :o I thought I was being thick but it does appear that the stuff on this site does need a bit of clarification after all. No idea what is going on with that Mindzai sheet.

 

All I've been trying to do is use the following (Bill K helped me here) to calculate the interest on a particular charge.

 

interest =C11*((1+($E$3/365))^E11)-C11

 

interest =[charge amount]*((1+([interest e.g. 0.159]/365))^[days since offense])-[charge amount]

 

So I have a total of my charges (i.e. OVER LIMIT FEE) in one column and a total of all these interest calculations for each charge in another (e.g. £400 charges and £80 interest) - then I add the two to make the claim figure. Now you say I can charge interest on the whole lot as well? :o

 

I might have to use my claimed back money for a lobotomy

 

Ladybird - the maths stuff above (some call it Japanese swearing !), as Mindzai says, is all background stuff. You only have to use that if you are converting a simple spreadsheet to a compound one (which is doing it the hard way, IMO !!!)

 

Sk1ntbint - not quite correct. You have:

A column for your penalty charges

A column for the contractual interest you are going to claim on them

A column for the portion of monthly (overdraft or credit card) interest which was actually charged by the bank on those charges, each month.

A column for contractual interest on this portion of monthly interest.

 

You don't have to work anything out, the spready does all that. You just do the boring - but easy - job of punching in the charges and the dates !!

 

If you're only claiming statutory interest, however, then you only use the 1st & 3rd columns, then claim 8% on the total of those.