1st Credit

[questioner]

I am still not sure if I should stick with the token payment or cancel it due to them not proving that I have a debt due to their constant inability to produce the CCA I have requested.

 

If I cancel I get tons of threats

 

If I keep paying I get less trouble.

 

?????????

 

 

[trevor33]

I think that the debt is sold to anyone who will take it then you get the threatening letters and phone calls from the DCA. I found that the best way to deal with them is to send a CCA request to anyone who hassles you. It will only cost about £2.50. £1 for postal order for £1 and recorded delivery plus about 50p costs.

Personally I would not pay them another penny until they supply the agreement. Trevor.

[questioner]

Same old same old – now getting the nasty little letters off Blair Oliver and Snot. I have given them the usual token payment for ages so now they are trying their luck and pushing for more. Silly really as I am on benefits and you cannot get blood out of a stone. As for worst crud - they just keep recycling the usual letter, which says that the client has the CCA copy agreement and they will sent it, which they never do...

 

God; I get so bored with these threats and nonsence. I have not got a pennies to rub together and they know it after seeing my fanancial starement but that wont stop their silly antics.

[questioner]

Now I am still out of the goodness of my heart still paying Ist Crud a token payment and yet they are now harassing me with late evening phone calls.

Unbelievable.

[ScabHunter]

I don't understand why you're still paying them anything if they are in default of your CCA request.

 

Do you love them so much you want to give them presents?

 

People post about the "morality" of continuing to pay money but given their conduct I would have thought they had relinquished any right to such consideration a long time ago.

 

If I keep paying I get less trouble

 

Where is the evidence of that? If you pay them £2 a month, they demand £10, if you pay them £20 a month, they demand £100. They are totally insane, so if you have no legal obligation why pay them anything?

 

I honestly believe you need to think your overall situation again.

 

You say you are on benefits now. You need to analyze carefully how much alleged debt you have, and how much of it is genuinely enforceable. It may be that bankruptcy is worth considering if you are on benefits, have no assets, and are going to be stiffed with having to make token payments for the rest of your life.

 

This business of "budgets" and "what you can afford" is a joke anyway. According to the Government, JSA is "what you need to live on". Well, it went up one pound from £59 to £60 a week last year, while bills and expenses went up by multiples of that percentage. If £59 was what you needed to live on last year, £60 is not going to be nearly enough this year.

 

And these token payments. £1 a month doesn't sound too expensive, but what if you've got ten or even more creditors wanting token payments?

 

The whole system does not make sense.

 

Have a think about your overall situation, questioner. For now, stop paying Worst Credit and spend the £1 on another CCA request. Get a request out, if you can, to all of your alleged creditors. Some people have managed to get very lucky with unenforceable agreements. You may not, but it is worth trying. If you don't there are other options.

 

SH

[ScabHunter]

I also should have mentioned about the harassment. Have you sent off a letter to Worst Credit demanding everything in writing?

 

It is up to you how you want to play this. If you just want the nuisance calls to stop, then have a look at my system here -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/99376-telephone-harassment-action-plan-2.html#post1770207

 

If you want to answer these calls so you can make a log and use them as part of a complaint, then you need a different strategy. Have you gone through the complaints procedure at Worst Credit?

 

Keep posting, and we'll help you get a better life somehow.

 

SH

[questioner]

Thank you for your help

 

I have, as readers will be aware been combating the nonsense, off Worst Crud etrc for many months. They still have not managed to comply with my ongoing CCA request for a copy of the agreement. They even recently sent me a letter ‘introducing’ themselves to me. Yes, even after all the hassle with them they cannot get their departments to correspond with each other it seems and are unaware of what they are all up to.

Something about a good time in a brewery springs to mind.

I think it is getting very close to complaint time now for me as they are acting so unprofessionally.

Tips would be appreciated for maximum effect please.

[questioner]

"Some people have managed to get very lucky with unenforceable agreements."

 

I am a bit green or maybe suspicious on this lot. The CAB people seemed to know little about this claim and just said that if you have a debt you have to pay up or else - that was their position.

 

They knew nothing about telling me what a CCA request was for and what its effect was and that worried me as it seems common knowledge on this site. Are the CAB in error or what?

 

I need full clarification and real proof of the effect on creditors that cannot suppy copy of agreements.

 

 

I suppose that I am anxious to 'not' wind them up (and recieve a sea of threats every day) with a full cancellation of tokens too. Paying a few quid here and there per month is not hard but forcing them to play the full threat of the law card is another thing of course. I dont know if they have or have not got a proper copy agreement to chuck at me but so far after many months they have NOT produced one.

 

"unenforceable agreements"

 

Yep, bulletproof definition urgently needed on that one!

 

 

I could also do please with thoses 'sample letters' (re CCA requests etc) to chuck at these monsters. Wasn't there a thread for that lot?

 

I think I am building up for what you kindly advise (which may result in a war of attrition with lots of these sharks as I cannot see them 'ever' leaving me alone once I unplug the monthly tokens)- just getting it all straight in my head first tho. Big step and all that.

 

ps here's a laugh. After 1st crud sent the 'hello introduction' letter the next day they sent their 'OUR CLIENT HAS THE COPY AGREEMENT' letter. They are getting very predictable as they have now sent this one about five time.

 

Thanks again - if I ever get through this lot one day I will be giving this site the tokens instead of the sharks.

Edited November 6, 2008 by questioner

[questioner]

Hi guys - sorry for not being around but got tied up with all manner of stuff.

 

I shall stop paying Worst crud for its now 7 months since I asked for a CCA. It seems like they cannot comply with my request.

 

I now have another vampire 'crudite solutions' on my back so I have also asked them for a copy of the agrement to prove alleged debt. They wrote back saying to send then a quid for it so I have.

 

They have also promised to stop berating me on the blower after I grumbled to them about hassling me.

 

I bet DCAs and happy in all this resession and glum.

 

Happy new year to all.

[ScabHunter]

If a shower of debt collectors cannot produce an enforceable agreement, it is an extremely bad idea to keep donating money to them. Not only does it feed the leeches with more of what they need to carry on an harassment campaign against other innocent people, it also puts you in a potentially dangerous position.

 

You have now donated to Worst Crudit for seven months. Each of these small payments resets the limitation clock back to six years, pushing the date at which you can be free of this burden ever further into the future. Should an enforceable agreement turn up five and a half years down the line, your seven pound donation will turn out to have been very expensive indeed.

 

As soon as a debt collector is in default of a CCA request, stop paying them. If you feel morally obliged to donate money, save it up and offer it as a full and final settlement. If this is done correctly, it eliminates the risk of them reneging on the deal and coming back at you in the future.

 

There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that making token payments to creditors makes them behave any better than if you did not.

 

Do not speak to these vermin on the telephone. It was designed to allow you to communicate with human beings. Send a telephone harassment letter and then make formal complaints.

 

SH

[trevor33]

I have found that a creditor passes the debt to a DCA in the hope of collection. If that does not work he then goes to another DCA. If you keep your cool and send each one a CCA request, they soon give up. (Usually).

Send a £1 postal Order with your request. A cheque is not adviseable as some unscrupulous DCA's have been known to use your signature from the cheque to "sign" the agreement.

Always send your request by recorded delivery.

[babybear39]

1 CCA is all you need. If another DCA comes begging, send them this:

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Your Reference:

Client reference:

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to you, as it is in dispute with ***DCA*** and has been since ***Date***

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

As ***DCA*** is now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, Office of Fair Trading Collection Guidelines and s10 Data Protection Act request, I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default, enforcement action is NOT permitted; under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to ***DCA*** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as ***DCA*** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If ***DCA***chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

Yours faithfully,

[trevor33]

Hi babybear39.

I tried that letter on a few occasions and I found that the CCA request was the only think that stopped the threats.

[babybear39]

Hi babybear39.

I tried that letter on a few occasions and I found that the CCA request was the only think that stopped the threats.

 

By passing to another DCA while in dispute the previous DCA or original creditor is breaching OFT guidlines and the CPUTR 2008.

 

It serves no purpose to CCA more than one organisation for an alleged debt.

 

Your next step if they keep passing it on is to complain to TS and the OFT as well as making complaints to the OC and the DCAs involved. Then escalate to the FOS.

[questioner]

I have stopped paying first crud as advised. Theyseem to have gone away.

 

I have also asked another DCA for a CCA. THEY SAID TO LEAVE IT WITH THEM BUT HAVE NOW CHANGED TACK AND SAID THAT HAVE 'CLOSED' THE ACCOUNT AND SENT IT BACK TO THE ORIGINAL CREDITOR. NOT SURE WHAT THIS MEANS BUT THEY FAILED TO PRESNT TO MY CCA REQUEST SO PERHAPS THIS IS A GOOD THING?

[babybear39]

If you get hastled by a new bunch, come back here and we'll give you a suitable 'bog-off' letter

[trevor33]

I have stopped paying first crud as advised. Theyseem to have gone away.

 

I have also asked another DCA for a CCA. THEY SAID TO LEAVE IT WITH THEM BUT HAVE NOW CHANGED TACK AND SAID THAT HAVE 'CLOSED' THE ACCOUNT AND SENT IT BACK TO THE ORIGINAL CREDITOR. NOT SURE WHAT THIS MEANS BUT THEY FAILED TO PRESNT TO MY CCA REQUEST SO PERHAPS THIS IS A GOOD THING?

As I said earlier, I know that sendind a CCA to the DCA's is not the correct way, but it works. The OFT and TS do not seem to have any clout with these people, but a CCA request cannot be ignored by the DCA.

[questioner]

Thanks guys. I have now been contacted by some lot called Robinson Way who sound, let's say, unkind and simply said they would be writing to me. Any ideas about who they are batting for?

 

Meant to say that another lot called Credit solutions reecntly failed to comply with my CCA and said the account was now closed and being sent 'back' to barcley card so maybe this RW lot is from this?

 

I suspect that B card have flogged the alleged deby to RW rather than take me on themselves. Does it make sense?

 

If so, perhas it is wrong of them to do this when its in dispute?

 

'Bog off'f letters (I like that lol) will possibly apply.

 

All this is really not so bad when you can see through them is it. I recall I was worried sick at first some time back but now thanks to your advice its better. I still have severerl that I pay tokens of a quid a month to so even if RW come around with baseball bats and snapping dogs I have not got more to offer. CCA time again I suppose..

Edited April 30, 2009 by questioner

[babybear39]

If you've already CCAd 1st crud you just need to remind RW that the account is in dispute due to non compliance of your CCA request.

[hungrybear]

If you've already CCAd 1st crud you just need to remind RW that the account is in dispute due to non compliance of your CCA request.

 

Surely you would then report worst credit to the information commissioner for passing on the details whilst in dispute?

[nicklea]

Surely you would then report worst credit to the information commissioner for passing on the details whilst in dispute?

 

The dpa would only be applicable if there was no signed agreement in existance. The mere fact that they have not given you a copy of the agreement does not mean that one does not exist.

[questioner]

But I thought they legally had to comply with one's CCA request?

 

Why else would they ignore such a call?

[hungrybear]

The dpa would only be applicable if there was no signed agreement in existance. The mere fact that they have not given you a copy of the agreement does not mean that one does not exist.

 

My thinking was, and I will bow to a more informed voice, that they must be able to show the legal basis upon which they are processing your data?

[questioner]

I would say that this is a very important moot point.

 

Can abyone clarify it?

 

I mean - do we pay anyone who comes knocking, even if they cannot prove the debt with our requested CCA?

 

CAB are unaware about CCA requests too, which is worrying. My experience with 2 of their assistants was that they say just be nice an pay anyone who threatens you for your dosh.

[babybear39]

My thinking was, and I will bow to a more informed voice, that they must be able to show the legal basis upon which they are processing your data?

 

That's the way it SHOULD work but 1st crud are a law unto themselves...You just have to laugh at the idiots :lol: