1st Credit/mbna... Applying For Finalcharging Order. Advice Please

[thereshope!]

stansfield,

 

No,just one cheque.

 

They would have received letters today so 12 day countdown for 1st credit and 40 days for mbna.

 

Bet they leave it to last minute.

 

Trying not to worry but its so hard when I can feel them closing in,

 

Just been having a look at experian credit file and the majority of creditors have defaulted me . 10 in total.

 

Going to make a start with cl finance next week as they seem to have bought up my GE BANK accounts. Most of the outstanding balances are small £200 ish and thats including the penalties that have been added on.

They might even be in credit once i work out charges.

 

I have a loan withe MBNA/CABOT which I havent looked into yet. I dont want to rock the boat too much because they havent got on my case since taking over the debt.

Worried that if i ask for info thay might try for court action in retaliation ?

 

Off to bed now cos working tomorrow and i'm shattered. Hopefully ive worn myself out enough to sleep without my head having loads of money related chaotic thoughts twirling round .

 

Thanks for listening to me going on lol

 

Take care

Hope xx

[thereshope!]

Update on Court proceedings !

 

I was told by court clerk that it was too late to postpone my hearing as they hadnt received my letter,despite sending a fax aswell.

 

The clerk said that it would have to go ahead and be heard on the 29th jan to which I replied that it would be wasting the courts time as I wasnt in receipt of the cca and sar info,so the judge would hopefully ajourn it until I knew all the details.

 

She became a little huffy and said that there was nothing she could do !

 

Received a letter this morning advising the hearing was ajourned until 13th March !

 

At least it gives me a bit of breathing space and time to find out exactly what I do owe.

 

That is,if 1st Credit and MBNA provide me with what i've asked for !!!

[stan5131]

Dont worry, if they dont, we'll ask for another postponement.

[isuedlowellandwon]

I absolutely despise 1st Credit Ltd with every cell in my body.

 

These scumbags served my 67 year old mother with a Statutory Demand under the Insolvency Act using a process server infront of her neighbours with regards to an alleged debt from the year 2000, just a few months ago.

 

She collapsed afterwards, she had just had a hip replacement. Being threatened with bankruptcy at aged 67 for an alleged debt you can't recall is an abomination. They knew they'd get thrown out of the County Court for it being Statute Barred so they sought this method.

 

It was written off in the end after threats to go to the media. The alleged debt was actually Statute Barred as per the Limitations Act 1980 as far as I was concerned, also as per the OFTs Guidelines.

 

The company used TERROR tactices to try and force an old lady to pay.

 

I am constantly sending complaints to Andy Lowther at the OFT, full witness statements infact about this company.

 

This company is the worst I have dealt with out of 10 DCAs and the most vidictive and vile.

 

If anyone has any evidence of them placing false information on their credit files, such as, for example:-

 

a) False default dates

b) Listing debts as "Hire Purchase"

 

Please contact me by private message as you can help do good and I will keep the OFT informed. Also it will help in my current litigation against these vermin.

[tifo]

If anyone has any evidence of them placing false information on their credit files, such as, for example:-

 

a) False default dates

b) Listing debts as "Hire Purchase"

 

Please contact me by private message as you can help do good and I will keep the OFT informed. Also it will help in my current litigation against these vermin.

 

Hi isuedlowellandwon, as i've mentioned in my 1st Credit thread, they have my debt listed as 'hire purchase'.

 

They gained a charging order last year on this debt, after saying they will accept my payment proposal at court and then refusing to, the guy said i am here for the order, not to discuss payments!

 

also, i want to know about your Lowell issue as i also have a MAJOR default problem with them, in my Lowell thread.

 

You have posts in both my threads. Any help would be appreciated.

 

I cannot seem to PM anyone ...

[isuedlowellandwon]

Hi isuedlowellandwon, as i've mentioned in my 1st Credit thread, they have my debt listed as 'hire purchase'.

 

They gained a charging order last year on this debt, after saying they will accept my payment proposal at court and then refusing to, the guy said i am here for the order, not to discuss payments!

 

also, i want to know about your Lowell issue as i also have a MAJOR default problem with them, in my Lowell thread.

 

You have posts in both my threads. Any help would be appreciated.

 

I cannot seem to PM anyone ...

 

 

My Lowell thread is here:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/59003-i-sued-lowell.html

 

You private message by being logged in and clicking "Quick Links" and then "Private Messages". Yes, I found it difficult to use myself.

 

I am getting really tired of these companies myself. I am going to write my own White Paper and send to MPs, for a new law to:-

 

1) Re-institute the Death Penalty for persons, agents, employees and officers of corporations as punishment of any of their actions being contrary to the CCA 1974 and DPA 1998.

 

If their actions can lead to people committing suicide I feel this is only fair.

 

We can complain about them to the OFT, Trading Standards (have them fined), Information Commissioner, Banking Ombudsman, FSA, sue them in the County Court, all to the end of the earth but the people in charge have endless supplies of fiat money created from thin air that any of this doesn't effect them.

 

I feel such a new law of hanging them till they be dead is the only way to go. I bet the majority of people here and in society in general would support this too.

[thereshope!]

Hi all

 

Well, MBNA sar deadline was up today,and guess what ?

 

I received a letter today stating that they have returned my cheque(encl) and have included statement info,and they hope this will be sufficient,but should I require a full SAR( eh ! you having a laff, isnt that what I requested in my SAR template !) please send a cheque for £10.

 

I am sooooo angry. Obviously they are trying to wind me up !

Why return my cheque, then damn well ask me to send a cheque for £10 if I require a SAR .

 

This statement shows hardly anything !

15 transactions in total from jul 04 to feb 05.

All of them late payment penalties, I hasten to add !

 

So,looks like they want to play games.

 

Bring it on ,I say !!!

 

Hope xx

[stan5131]

First port of call is to make a complaint to the Information Commissioner for non compliance. You can download the complaint form from their website. Also write to MBNA and tell them you are complaining to Information Commissioner and will issue court action against them for non compliance.

[djweeble]

That's MBNA's favourite delaying tactic, they do it to EVERYONE

 

I sent them this letter after I got the same as yours.....

 

M B N A Europe Bank LTD

Stansfield House

Chester Business Park

Chester

Cheshire

CH4 9QQ

Letter before action

 

Failure to comply with a Subject Access Request, re account number: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

Dear Sir,

 

On 24th October 2006 I served on MBNA Europe Bank Limited a formal Subject Access Request pursuant to Section 7 of The Data Protection Act 1998, by recorded delivery.

 

The letter was clearly titled in bold lettering with the title “Subject Access Request”, and I quote from its contents:

 

“I would like to make a formal request under the Data Protection Act (1998.) for a complete and exhaustive list of all charges made on this account since its inception. Additionally where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you. I also require full particulars of the transfer of the account to Link Financial Services.”

 

In return, I received what I can only assume to be an attempt by one of your employees at stalling the matter, one of the lines in the letter I received was:

 

…as requested we have enclosed details of your statement information. ……… as we have not treated your request as full data subject access request….

 

Clearly, at no time did I request only details of my statements, which by coincidence were not sent with the reply and have never been received. I specifically requested a lot of other information as well, and I still require it. By this I meant ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING you have in any form, starting with my initial application for the card account, up to and including its subsequent transfer to Link Financial Services.

 

I am very aware that members of your staff have also attempted to delay other peoples requests by asking for proof of ID and claiming that you have 40 days from its receipt, but it would seem to me that you were sufficiently satisfied as to my identity to forward your previous letter to my home address. However, with this delaying tactic in mind I am enclosing a copy of my passport with this final notice as proof of my identity.

The Data Protection Act 1988 clearly states that you have 40 days from receipt of a Subject Access Request with an accepted form of payment, to comply with it, and a cheque drawn on a Sterling account is an accepted form of payment whether you decide to cash it or not. You have therefore had more than 40 days to supply the information and have committed an offence, but I am still prepared to show some good will and allow you a further period of grace to sort out this matter.

 

With this in mind I am now prepared to give you two FINAL deadlines which I feel are entirely reasonable and I urge you to comply with.

 

First Deadline:

 

By 6PM on the third working day after your receipt of this letter you MUST inform me by mail AND email that you unconditionally agree to send me all the requested information by the expiry of the second deadline.

 

Second Deadline:

 

Within 14 working days after receiving this letter you MUST send me all the requested information, you MUST also promptly inform me by email that it has been sent.

 

If I do not receive the information I have requested, IN FULL by 3PM on the 16th working day after your receipt of this letter, I will immediately, and without further notice, take legal action in the courts to force you to comply.

 

You are warned that this action will also include a claim for all my costs plus interest.

 

I will also contact the DPA Information Commissioner and make a formal complaint about your failure to comply with my Subject Access Request. As you know, the Information Commissioner has the power to revoke your licence to process personal data, and my complaint will include references to my court action against you and a request that he does so.

 

I will also take all of the above action immediately if you do not contact me as requested in my first deadline.

 

I sincerely urge you NOT to try to use any form of delaying tactics again, as I will take all the actions listed above immediately should attempt you do so.

 

I look forward to receiving your timely responses, and still hope that we can now conclude this matter without my having to take legal action.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

They failed to comply as I requested, but I got the SAR 2 weeks after they recieved the letter, so I couldn't haul their asses through the courts, I made a complaint to the IC though.

 

Anyway, at least I have my account details now, so I can start the long haul to getting rid of Link Financial's charging order on my house

[thereshope!]

Nice one DJ

 

Thought it was a delay technique !

 

Good luck with your claim, hopefully I wont be too far behind you !

 

Hope xx

[normanjay]

Hi djweeble,

 

The house is in joint names so I will try to argue this point,thanks.

 

Just having a look at the interim order now and it says that the judgement did not provide for payment by instalments.

 

A charging order can be made against jointly owned property but is registered at the Land Registry as a caution, not a charge, the general effect however, namely to restrict you from your ability to sell, is the same.

 

I have a final charging order on my property. The original debt was a £6000 loan and when the final charging order was issued it had risen to £15,735.02. :o

 

I'm amazed the creditor has applied for a charging order in your case. Do they not realise once a judgement is made the debt will no longer attract interest? Also the chances of them being able to force you to sell are diminished if the property is jointly owned, especially if the sum owed is small.

 

With any luck the judge will see that the creditors action is foolish and will limit costs or even make them pay the costs..

[thereshope!]

I have a final charging order on my property. The original debt was a £6000 loan and when the final charging order was issued it had risen to £15,735.02. :o

 

 

With any luck the judge will see that the creditors action is foolish and will limit costs or even make them pay the costs..

 

 

Hi NJ

 

MBNA are playing games and 1ST CREDIT havent even bothered to respond to me.

 

At this rate with no evidence that a cca even exists and the fact they have breached the law by non-compliance of SAR and CCA request,I think they will have trouble taking this too much further.

 

 

Hope xx

[thereshope!]

Ok .Feeling a little nervous now as court date is 21st march.

 

I still havent had any response from 1st Credit re my CCA request so they are well and truly in breach !

 

As for the jokers at MBNA I received a personal letter stating that they didnt realise that my SAR was a SAR doh !!!

 

How they didnt realise is beyond me as it was a template SAR letter from the CAG lib.

 

I wonder if my case will be thrown out as MBNA and I st Credit havent complied with my request.

 

Fingers crossed. I hope so...

 

Hope xx

[dpick]

I hope they do get case thrown out MBNA are the pits

 

good luck and all the best for court dpick

[Rhia]

THERE'SHOPE. I have exactly the same problem with MBNA but not the charging order however the DCA has started court proceedings. You must issue a court summons for non compliance against MBNA. I have done this and if you PM me if you need help with it. You can do it today online. It will cost £50 but MBNA will have to pay these costs back to you.

Also if you owe money elsewhere you can argue that it would be unfair to your other creditors if 1ST Credit were to be given a charging order and set out exactly who you owe and what so the judge can see it.

Best to PM me and I can email with you offboard as have other idea.

[thereshope!]

ok .quick update.

 

I have contacted trading standards, financial ombudsman and information commissioner.

 

All very nice but not sure what they can do to help me ?

 

I am going to log a complaint on ICO website regarding MBNA and 1st Credit and their non-compliance.

 

Damn sick of these mickey takers !!!

[The Lantana]

FOS, TS and ICO are useless at this time - sort them out afterwards. Get cracking on Rhia's suggestion as a matter of urgency, IMHO.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[thereshope!]

Well something is going on !

just contacted the others side's solicitor re the hearing on wednesday, basically asking if they knew that their client hadnt complied with cca request, and they said that they had just contacted the court via fax with regard to the hearing.

 

Then they refused to tell me what was in the fax !:o

 

So I phoned the court ,who say they havent received a fax !

 

So not sure whats going on . The court clerk did say that the other side had requested copies of letters taht I had written , asking for a stay due to cca and sar data not being received.

 

I wonder if they have cancelled the hearing as they know that they are in breach of cca 1974 s 127(3) ?

 

Might have em running for the hills lol:D

 

Hope xx

[thereshope!]

Hi

As I havent heard anything to suggest otherwise, I thought it would be best to err on the side of caution ,and be prepared-just in case I do end up having to defend myself in a final charging order hearing come wednesday !!

 

This is what I intend to use as my argument and I would appreciate it if anyone could comment on /add to what I have come up with.

 

 

I intend to write to the court on monday and ask that the hearing is delayed again due to non-compliance by 1st Credit and MBNA but it is leaving it pretty late I think !

 

I do intend to issue a claim against 1st credit and ask for a set aside due to the fact that they appear to not have a credit agreement.

 

I will keep you all posted as to the outcome ....

 

 

 

 

 

OBJECTIONS TO FINAL CHARGING ORDER

 

1) 1st Credit have refused to comply with CCA 1974

2a) I believe that 1st Credit have acted unlawfully in the application of the Interim Charging Order.

b) I believe 1st Credit do not have a copy of the Credit Agreement as they have failed to provide a copy on request.

c) The Data Protection Act also requires that 1st Credit should have written consent from me to access my personal data. They have never been granted this consent.

1st Credit was sent a letter and £1.00 fee, and was asked to supply a copy of the Credit Agreement on the 12th January 2007 deemed served 16th January 2007.

Non compliance of 12 day deadline on 29th January 2007.

Further 30 day deadline breached on the 28th February 2007.

In breach of 12+30 day deadline.

As 1st Credit have breached the CCA 1974 section 127(3) this makes the agreement entirely unenforceable, unless a signed document containing all the prescribed terms is provided.

If this is not provided the judge can not enforce the debt

I believe 1st Credit has acted unlawfully and dishonourably by flouting the law and I understand they need to seek permission of the District Judge to proceed with the case.

Here is the Act verbatim

"If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) —

 

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

 

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.”

Have 1st Credit sought and been given permission by the district judge to continue with the action against me to obtain a Final Charging Order, and if so, on what basis?

This debt remains in dispute.

It is my intention to apply to the court in due course to have the original Interim Order set aside.

At the time of the Interim Order being granted, I was unaware that excessive charges and penalties were unlawful and on this basis, did not dispute the amount of the debt.

I was also unaware that 1st Credit appears to have acted unlawfully in respect of processing my personal data.

I believe that as I am now furnished with a sound knowledge of my consumer rights that I have a case to argue against 1st Credit.

In the event that the court sees fit to grant a Final Charging Order I would like to bring to the judges attention further reasons why I feel this would be unfair.

1) A Final Charging Order would give unfair advantage to 1st Credit over my other creditors.

2) Nat west Bank applied for a charging order for a sizeable debt approximately £19000 and were turned down.

3) It would be unfair on my partner who is co-owner of the property

4) It would risk the security of my children

I have a debt management plan with the CCCS and have maintained monthly payments to 1st Credit since the debt management plan was implemented in March 2005

 

 

 

 

 

Hope xx

[thereshope!]

bump please

[thereshope!]

Just been contacted by my solicitor regarding the FCO hearing on wednesday .

 

1st Credit have contacted my solicitor( I was advised to take on a solicitor as this is a final charging order and I have free legal protection on my home insurance) and offered to reduce the debt to £3500 and apply for charging order for that amount.

 

My solicitor asked me if that was ok.

 

WHAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

How is that ok ?

 

I st credit and the MBNA shower have not responded to either my CCA or SAR letters and have committed a criminal offence.

 

They need to seek the permission of the district judge to even continue with their action against me .

 

As it stands, this debt is unenforceable.

 

I have not been sent a copy of the deed of assignment.

I have not been sent a copy of the credit agreement.

 

As I understand it ,no agreement ,no debt.End of.

 

I am so angry ! :mad:

 

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Rhia]

Keep the faith There'sHope. You are doing the right thing. Have PM'd you.

[thereshope!]

Been at court today :o

 

A small victory of sorts !!!

 

The judge has basically adjourned the hearing for a further 28 days and he advised me to" seek decent legal help ".

 

The whole experience was quite bizzare, and the judge appeared to be a decent fair sort.

 

He explained that his hands were tied with regard to the Final Charging Order and he would either need to enforce the order and make it final,or strike it out in its entirety.

 

The judge was astounded when he discovered that I had admitted the debt and asked why I had done so,so I explained that I had only recently learnt penalty charges were unlawful ,and it was on this basis that I felt the order shouldnt be finalized.

 

What I found strange though,was when I mentioned that 1st Credit and MBNA hadnt complied with cca and sar,he didnt reply.

I kept bringing my argument back to the fact that yes, I have a debt to 1st Credit,but as to the correct amount of that debt,who Knows ?

as they have failed to supply details and amounts by way of SAR and CCA requests.

 

The judge knew where I was coming from but said that the onus was on me to prove the amount of the debt !!!

 

And so it went on as each point I raised took me back to the starting point of the disputed amount.

 

The judge asked me what I wanted him to do and I stated that if he wasnt going to strike out the order, then would he please give me a little longer to make a case and apply for a set aside,which he agreed to do, much to the annoyance of 1st Credits appointed solicitor !

I could see that he really didnt want me to have more time and he stated that the case had been adjourned 3 times already,but the judge decided to give me longer despite his arguments !

 

So, I need to really get together a case as soon as possible and counterclaim against 1st credit for unlawful charges, but I will have to estimate the figure as I dont have a clue how many charges have been added on.

 

A couple of other points that I should mention !When I got back from court today, I had been sent a letter by my solicitor which contained a copy of an email from 1st Credit to my solicitor basically saying

" here is a copy of the deed of assignment ,I confirm that I referred you to section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925 which provides that notice of the assignment is all that needs to be given to the debtor"

 

Is the above correct or is this guy trying it on ?

 

He went on to say that he is awaiting copy statements from MBNA but would like to point out judgement had been in place for a number of months and that I had made no application to set aside (I didnt know penalty charges were unlawful when the original order was granted)

He then invited the court to have regard only to matters set out in CPA Part 73(whats that ?)which are the only matters relevant to the application.

 

He finished off by saying if I wished to raise other issues then it must be in the context of an application to set aside which must be supported by evidence and explain the delay in making the application.The making of a final charging order will not preclude such application.

 

Yikes !

I would really appreciate someone who speaks the lingo to have a look at this for me and maybe help me put something together.

 

In summary I learnt today that the best thing to do is if served with court papers, DONT ADMIT THE DEBT !

 

I really think the judge would have considerd a set aside if I hadnt admitted the debt:mad:

 

Hope xx

[MinnieMouser]

I wish I'd learnt to not admit the debt in time too!!!

[InKogneeToh]

Hi thereshope

 

I will respond with some thoughts on your options tomorrow as it's very late and I've only just come across your thread.

 

Regards, Pam