UKPC 06/04/2018 windscreen PNC claimform- residential parking in my own space - forget permit ***Claim Discontinued***

[dbuk2000]

Hi

 

I am hoping someone can give me clarification and how to approach as there is a lot of info out there and not sure if regulations have changed.

 

I live in a block of flats where I own a flat and dont rent and have a designated parking spot. Stupidly I didnt stick my permit to the screen and just let it rest on the front and it must have fallen off. Regardless it went missing and last Friday morning at 6am I received a parking ticket from UKPC.

 

I am not sure how to approach and whether I should email UKPC to appeal and explain my situation and hope they take some sympathy.

 

Would appreciate any advice.

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

please complete this:

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

[dbuk2000]

1 The date of infringement? 06/04/2018

 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] No

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] Not Applicable

 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK, Not Applicable

 

5 Who is the parking company? UKPC

 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Not a carpark, it was in my designated space outside my block of flats in South Harrow

[brassnecked]

Your ownership of the flat probably gives you supremacy of contract over the UKPC clowns as your space is designated. Who employs the PPC, council, or managing Agents?

[dx100uk]

await the NTK before you do anything

[Homer67]

I once lived in a property with one these 'designated parking spaces' and it turned out that you actually bought the parking space with your property so it was owned by you.

 

Worth checking your deeds to see if that's the case then you can laugh at any PPC invoices.

[Ethel Street]

It's flats so I assume you own it Leasehold?

If you own the flat leasehold any 'ownership' of the designated parking space is likely to be leashold as well, and therefore the use of it subject to conditions in the Lease (if there are any). So you also need to check what the Lease says specifically about the parking space.

 

I dealt with this recently for my mother and when I read the Lease closely it did say that my mother had the right to park in her designated parking space but went on to say "providing that the leaseholder complies with the rules for the use of the parking space issued from time to by the freeholder"

- something on those lines, can't remember the exact wording.

 

What that meant in practice was that the freeholder had the right to implement a parking scheme at the flats that required parking permits to be displayed and take action if it wasn't.

 

Whether the freeholder's scheme actually complies with the lease, and whether the parking contractor has complied with the freeholder's scheme, and whether the signage is clear etc, all that has to be established in the normal way of course.

[dbuk2000]

Thanks for the advice all. I will check my paperwork today from the completion to see if I can find anything.

 

Yes thats correct, I own it leasehold.

 

My understand it the managing agents employs them, as they are the ones I used to get my permit.

 

There is clear signage, and it is completely my fault, I just hope that common sense prevails as no one has lost anything by me parking my own spot and it was an honest mistake. I will get it stick to the windscrew once my replacement permit arrives.

[DragonFly1967]

PPC's don't do common sense. Never have and probably never will. There's no profit in common sense

 

 

However, if your lease gives you the right to park in your space, there are plenty (and I do mean plenty) of persuasive cases online should UKPC decide that they'd quite like to waste some money and take you to court over this.

 

Let's wait an see exactly what the lease says first and then we can go from there. And as you've already been told, do absolutely nothing as regards to contacting UKPC until a NtK lands on your doormat.

[dbuk2000]

Ok thanks DragonFly

 

I guess the only reason I want to contact them know, rather than when the NTK arrives, is that if I appeal now then they will freeze my 14 day period for the fine, meaning that I would have to pay £60 rather than £100 after this 14 day period.

[dx100uk]

where does it say FINE please?

 

and you wont be paying anything anyway so no need to appeal now.

[brassnecked]

Ok thanks DragonFly

 

I guess the only reason I want to contact them know, rather than when the NTK arrives, is that if I appeal now then they will freeze my 14 day period for the fine, meaning that I would have to pay £60 rather than £100 after this 14 day period.

No no no, you don't want to ID yourself as the driver at this stage.

[dbuk2000]

Ok understood. It doesnt say fine, just parking charge.

 

Will pull whatever details I can tonight and then report back to you all.

[DragonFly1967]

meaning that I would have to pay £60 rather than £100 after this 14 day period.

 

Well, you really have 3 choices here.

 

Pay £60.

Pay £100. Or

Pay £0.00

 

Personally, I know which one I'd choose, but I suppose it's your money

[silverfox1961]

Hi

I agree with everyone here (so far) If you appealed now, you will have identified yourself as the driver which then gives the parking company up to 6 years to chase you. This is why we say wait for the NTK.

 

Please read your leasehold agreement thoroughly, especially regarding your parking space. A lot of management agencies make these contracts with parking companies without knowing the rules.

 

Were there any parking restrictions when you moved in or were they introduced afterwards? If it was the latter, did the management company consult the tenants?

[Homer67]

Where I was located the company that managed the leasehold properties employed a PPC without anyone's knowledge including the lease owners.

 

We all started getting PPC invoices (not fines) and they even sent them to me as I did not have a parking permit in my car because I didn't need one.

 

My parking space was tacked onto the end of a row of spaces for the leasehold flats but I lived in the house on the end of the next terrace.

 

Here is a map link and my house is the one with the wheelie bins up against the fence and my parking space is the one in the row nearest the wheelie bins

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5657076,0.1244451,3a,75y,202.45h,81.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swaTdartzsBjrMZDskpMNaA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

This estate was built in 1985 (usual crap 1980's timber framed rubbish and poor estate design) and I lived there from 1987 to 1993 and the PPC never stopped in that time.

 

I owned my home freehold and I owned my parking spot as well, named and shown on my deeds as private owned property.

 

The PPC did not care about that though, they carried on trying to claim money from me for parking on my own land.

 

This was before POFA though so it was easier to just ignore them which I did and I built up a pile of their invoices and begging letters and threatening letters.

 

POFA or not the PPC and Property Management Company cannot agree any contract which trumps your lease or freehold.

 

Read that lease, make sure there is no mention of a parking management scheme and then come back here with the information.

[DragonFly1967]

Here you go dbuck, have a little light reading

 

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=ukpc

[dbuk2000]

Hi All

 

Thanks for sending the link DragonFly

 

I managed to find the lease.

 

In the first few pages I came across the below section which I have attached. It says that the property is my flat together with parking space.

 

Is there anything else I should look for, there was a lot of stuff int he lease. Couldn't find anything about them hiring UKPC or equivalent.

 

Thanks

 

lease extract.pdf

[DragonFly1967]

Nothing else is needed. You now have everything you need to beat these clowns.

 

But, you may as well have some fun doing it

 

 

Sit back, relax and allow them to waste their money sending you demand after demand, and then begging letter after begging letter. Let them get all the way to a Letter Before Action, and then you go back and start to wipe the floor with them.

 

The only way that they'll ever learn is through defeat after defeat, in court if necessary.

 

You have supremacy of contract. They have nothing but hopes & dreams.

 

 

Edit to add: I've unapproved your attachment, it basically has your full address on it. Might be better to cover those parts and then upload it as a PDF file

[dbuk2000]

Appreciate all your help.

 

Great will report back as the letters chasing start to come through.

 

You say they need to learn in court, but even if I am likely to win I dont want to go to court just on the off chance. Is this likely to get all sorted before that?

 

In the meantime I should have my replacement permit arriving so at least I can avoid any more of these tickets.

 

The address that was on the attacment is for the management company so all good.

[DragonFly1967]

In a world of common sense, you'd certainly hope that they'd realise that they've made a goof and cancel the ticket. However, when you're dealing with a PPC (any of them) common sense is in VERY short supply. I think they keep it in a locked drawer and have lost the keys!

 

The only thing that you can do to (hopefully) stop them taking you to court is to appeal once you get the NtK. You have very good grounds for an appeal, but you really don't want to identify yourself as the driver (hence waiting until you receive the NtK) as that only removes any protection that you get from the POFA 2012.

 

As I've said though, common sense and PPC's are not often bedfellows, so they *might* still want to try and get the money out of you, ultimately at court. But, there's not really an 'off chance' of you winning. You'll beat them hands down and would also have a good case for a counter claim for their trespass in to your parking spot and their breach of the Data Protection Act, plus your costs.

 

All in all, could be a grand day out and all at their expense

 

[dbuk2000]

Hope you all had a nice weekend.

 

Just to add to this. I now received another parking ticket even though the management company told me they put me on an exempt list till my permit arrives. Cant say I am suprised. Will just wait till I get the NTK form and then take it from there.

[DragonFly1967]

You can always count on UKPC to keep your hamster supplied with bedding

[ericsbrother]

That will coat UKPC anohter £4 to process for no reason whatsoever. Let the management co you are thinking of suing them for trespass because they are the ones who allowed these bandits onto the common parts. The persuasive case is Davey v UKPC so rub their noses in it and let them know it will be about 10 grand out of their wallet if they dont get their act together and stop UKPC's appalling behaviour

[dbuk2000]

Hi All

 

So further to the above, finally after a few months I received some communication from UKPC. A letter in the post Re: Notice to keeper as the subject.

 

Should I ignore this or not?

 

Any help appreciated.

 

Thanks