Lowell/NCO OH's old Cap1 Card debt - need for annual statements.

[conchy_joe]

Good morning everyone,

My partner has an agreement with NCO Resolve/Lowell regarding a debt incurred through Capital One.

An agreement was reached with the help of Step Change to repay the outstanding amount with minimum monthly payments.

The account was being managed by Lowell , however the last time that they sent an annual statement was 18/05/2020 at which time the outstanding amount was £281.73.

In the FAQ at the foot of the statement it reads........."

Why have you sent me this statement ? ".......

Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 , we are requested to send account holders an annual statement for any regulated credit agreements they have such as personal loans, credit cards, store cards, mail order accts etc.

Could you tell me how the lack of annual statements may effect this arrangement.

[dx100uk]

why is she blindly paying any DCA via a stepchange DMP anything and being a nice DCA cash cow?

dump stepchange now

send each DCA she's paying via this DMP a CCA request and do a DMP yourself.

stop being a DCA cash cow.

dx

[Bazooka Boo]

As DX says. STOP payments to step change and kick them to the side of the road, you really really do not need to use any debt management companies.

It is incredibly simple to do yourself.

 

[conchy_joe]

She is paying a minimum £1 a month, and this was arranged through StepChange many years ago.

The only reason that I am asking for advice now is because I was looking through some papers and noticed that the last Annual Statement from Lowell was May 2020.

If they do not send annual statements as per the CCA 1974 are they not in default and does this effect there right to continue collecting the debt payments.

I've no problem with writing to them requesting a copy of the CCA, but I don't understand how this would help her case.

[dx100uk]

even if they didnt send a statement its pretty low key and does not really effect anything regarding enforceability no

however not having a signed copy of the consumer credit agreement she signed DOES. no cca = no pay!!

all she is doing by blindly paying is keep running the statute barred date to infinity!!!

DUMP STEPCHANGE NOW.

i cant believe that someone thats been here for as long as me ever ever allow the above to happen...cash cowed and no end to it if you keep paying money on old debts. 

[conchy_joe]

Royal Mail seems to have lost this letter.

I check the tracking number each day , all I get is " we've got it "....I must wait ten days before I can register a claim.

I'll wait until the ten days are up and then send another request.

Whilst I was dealing with Lowell I sent off two more CCA requests, one to Cabot and one to PRA Group, both have replied without CCA, should I give the details here, or open up a new topic under each name.

[dx100uk]

lost CCa is not your problem.

all you needed to do was use a 1st class stamp and get free proof of posting at any PO counter.

so has she now dumped Step Change and stopped ALL payments?

 

 

[conchy_joe]

There is no contract with Step Change, they were simply a Not for Profit charity that helped set up this plan (£1.00 min' monthly payment) over twenty years ago.

As you know these agreements state that " you agree to continue making these payments etc, when you stop the whole sum becomes payable ". This was agreeable because it kept the wolves from the door at a time of crisis.

There is no " dumping " necessary, nor " kerb kicking ". Step Change are no longer in the picture.

My first letter to Lowell never arrived and has been registered as lost, and so far the second one seems to heading in the same direction.

I checked Companies House and their registered office address is Thorpe Park , Leeds. ( reg' 4558936 ) and yet their website gives an address is Savannah way , Leeds.

 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

good well done, 

pers i'd sit on your hands now 

until or unless you ever get a letter of claim

then comeback here.

dx

 

 

[conchy_joe]

As the first letter was lost ( acknowledged by Royal Mail ) I sent sent further CCA request 20 March, they received it on 22nd. That gives them until 9 April to reply.

Whilst I was doing this I decided to send letters to Cabot and PRA Group, these were for myself.

I received replies from both, should I give details here or open new threads.

 

[dx100uk]

cant hurt 

dx

[conchy_joe]

First Cabot,   BOS loan Feb' 2001, 

They say they don't have relevant details on file so will request a copy of CCA and T&C from original lender. Could take some time but will update in 12 days .Ask that I continue payments (£1.00) while they manage my request. Also I've received four phone calls from them (unanswered).

Second PRA Group, MBNA card June 2000,

They acknowledge receipt of request and have requested required information, they say that the account has been put on hold until it's been received.

Interestingly they say that they do not charge any fee for this request and have returned the £1.00 PO and will give update ASAP. 

[dx100uk]

pers i'd be stopping payment to everyone on anything yours or hers ...end of.

you've both been nice little compliant DCA cash cows for FAR FAR too long.

and the fact you've been here longer than me and done this... really shocks me...

dx

 

[conchy_joe]

If a DCA supplies a reconstituted copy of the CCA what would be the next step?

It seems that a reconstituted copy must be a " true copy " of the executed agreement, it must contain the Prescribed Terms. But given that there is no copy of the applicants signature surely it could be an agreement form with the details filled in. How can it be assumed that this " copy " represents a true copy that the claimant has supposed to have signed.

Cabot have demonstrated a bit of sabre rattling when they say "Until we're able to provide this information , your account is unenforceable. This means we're not permitted to obtain a County Court judgement against you . Whilst we cannot pursue legal action, your balance remains outstanding ".

I looked up a case... Cabot UK Ltd  v  Bachellier (2010) which might help, but it's tough reading, I'd prefer to plough through War and Peace.

This particular case with Cabot is not huge , approx' £140, but the only other worry that I have is also with Cabot...£2100.

They may try to make a point with lesser case.

[dx100uk]

i think you mean applicant not claimant above?

section 127(3).

readme

HSBC/DG Claimform - old Credit Card Debt - Financial Legal Issues - Consumer Action Group

 

[conchy_joe]

Thank you for that "read me", It's a lot to digest, lots of legal procedure.

There was one thing that I was going to mention to you,  but in one of the conversations in that thread it was mentioned that there may be spies on the Forum,  this is something that I've read quite some time ago in a previous thread.

What I had in mind was to wait for the thirty days after their reply to my CCA request and then send the unenforceable letter.

I was hoping that an absence of signature could be the Silver Bullet but it seems that there are lot of layers to peel on this Onion.

 

[conchy_joe]

I've just started to read Carey v HSBC on Casemine, 

[dx100uk]

pers i wouldn't..

all you need to know is in the posts of that thread....that being section 127(3) of the CCA refers.

if under a CCA return, the 'creditor' claims its a recon, it must not contain any details like a sig, tickbox, or typed name (whether you signed physically or by online tickbox)

1. those are not necessary in a recon, so why inc them? (faked??)

2, it cant thus be a recon!!, it must be a copy of the 'original' from the original creditor, not from a debt buyers filing cabinet.

they shouldn't not be 'mixing' some original docs from the OC with crap from their filing cabinet, claiming its ALL a recon! because some of it is faked.

just remember there are far more docs like NOA and a DN that are as equally important to a court claim of 'this debt is enforceable'.

never rely solely upon the dodgy agreement argument.

[AndyOrch]

Sec127 (3) repealed, now gone.

S. 127(3)-(5) repealed (6.4.2007) by Consumer Credit Act 2006 (c. 14), ss. {15}, 70, 71(2), {Sch. 4} (with Sch. 3 para. 11); S.I. 2007/123, art. 3(2), Sch. 2

[conchy_joe]

Sorry I've been away for a few days, bit of a family emergency.

First off, Cabot have written again almost word for word from their previous letter " We haven't been able to obtain details yet " etc.

I did my best to try and plough through Carey v HSBC Bank plc ( 2009) , after a long while I scrolled down to the Summing Up and it seemed that a reconstituted agreement was OK as long as the T&C and address was correct .Please tell me that I misread it.

Your post #18 makes complete sense.

Would you mind giving me the bottom line on your post #19. I'm still recovering from Carey v HSBC.

[AndyOrch]

Consumer Credit Act 1974 – Section 127(3):

The text of Section 127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 reads:

“The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).”

Effect of Section 127(3):

Section 127(3) acts as a safeguard for consumers, requiring strict compliance with the signing of agreements. If this provision is not adhered to, the court may not issue an enforcement order.

Repeal of Section 127(3):

Section 127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 was repealed by the Financial Services Act 2012. This repeal had significant implications for the enforceability of credit agreements.

Effect of the Repeal:

The repeal of Section 127(3) removed a hurdle for enforcing credit agreements, making it less stringent for claimants to seek enforcement even in cases of non-compliance with the signing requirements.

[conchy_joe]

One of the three CCA info requests that I have sent is to Cabot.

They received my request 8 March, so far I've received three letters from them (12 March, 25 March, 2 April) each saying they are trying to find the info that I've requested, they all say that until they find the info the debt is unenforceable and they cannot legally pursue me.

The 12 working days grace period ended 26 March.

I'm still paying the minimum payment of £1.00 per month.

Can I ask what your advice to me would be now.

[AndyOrch]

Thats your decision, for the sake of a £1 a month peace and quiet no threat of it escalating but you are running the limitations clock for ever.

Stop payment in the knowledge they do not have the necessary agreements to enforce in a court and start the limitations period.

[conchy_joe]

So to summarise, the DCA fail to supply the copies of the CCA after 12 working days.

Then after a further 30 days they are committing an offence. 

At what point should I stop the monthly payments,  also could you say what the worst case scenario would be.

 

 

[dx100uk]

eh?

30 days went out in 2007 be careful of the age of the threads you read.

12+2 working days is the time limit. after that no cca = no pay.

dx