ECP PCN Rental Car - paid by app - no receipt - appeal refused - Mayfair - Achilles Way

[lookinforinfo]

I am surprised that they are pursuing your brother when he would no have been the name of the hirer supplied by the hire company. With PoFA and hire vehicles, only the hirer is liable regardless of who was driving. And the hirer is not liable in this case because ECP failed to comply with PoFA. 

Did your brother say he was the hirer or the driver for instance or say something else in his appeal that confused ECP. That isn't hard to do of course.

[Bilali8]

Hey @lookinforinfo I'm not sure, I don't believe he told them he's the driver. He must have selected an option saying that he's appealing on behalf of the driver or something of the sort.

In more news, however, these wannabe thugs are back at it again. Honestly, what a joke.

In the letter they sent before this it said they had made "2 attempts" and in this letter they said "4 attempts", I wonder what happened to the "3rd attempt" lol. 

WhatsApp Image 2024-04-18 at 14.06.07_44abc9c8.pdf

[FTMDave]

I doubt very much that a parking company will allow "on behalf of" appeals and he may have clicked on something saying he was the driver.

I did ask upthread -

On 26/02/2024 at 16:18, FTMDave said:

ECP will however continue to hassle someone.  Are you comfortable with that person being your brother?

Euro Car Parks aren't very litigious and it is likely that the threats will eventually peter out.

However, are you all happy with an 18-year-old being hassled and, if the matter ever did by some horror get to court, probably being considered a liar by the judge for saying he was the driver when he wasn't?

It is of course up to the people concerned how to deal with this.

I think it would be a hell of a lot better if the hirer manned up and contacted ECP and removed your brother form the loop.

[Bilali8]

I'm not sure what the "appeal" system asked but he said he definitely didn't indicate he was the driver so I'm just going to have to take his word for it.

Honestly, I don't think the hirer will contact them. I think my brother will tolerate it. I did have a similar experience with another company 6-7 years ago and sought advice on here then to which you guys told me to ignore, I got the exact same DRP letters and then a "Gladstones Solicitor" letter. 

After that nothing happened and it died away. Based on my experience with that I assumed the same would happen here but only asked to see if perhaps anything had changed since then. 
 

Hopefully it doesn't get to court but if it did, I feel like we have enough evidence to sway a judge who probably hates dealing with this type of nonsense anyway. Or maybe I'm too optimistic. 

[FTMDave]

Based on ECP's previous, what will definitely happen is this.

They will send more idiotic letters.

After they will send a Letter of Claim, and it is essential that your brother replies at this point to this to show them he would be big trouble in court.

Next it is highly likely (but not certain) that they will crawl back under their stone and that will be the end of the matter.

The slight worry is that if they do do court it will seem a likely story to a judge that your brother has no connection to the ticket, when it was him who appealed and replied to the Letter of Claim.  Indeed I think it would seem the lot of you were playing games with ECP and with the court by getting unconnected people involved and then later deny they were involved.

So be aware there is that slight risk.

You talked about "a mess" in your first post, and you weren't wrong.

Someone hires a car and gets a ticket.  There is an appeal.  Who appeals, the hirer?  No, the hirer's mate's son.  Obvious!

There is an approach for help to a consumer website.  By the hirer?  No, by the hirer's mate's son's brother!

This is so damn silly and totally avoidable.

Anyway, it seems the decision has been made for your brother to carry the can so whatever consequences will ensue will ensue. 

[Nicky Boy]

I don't think it's quite as bad as that Dave. I seem to remember the brother has no driving licence?

So any snotty letter would be a real doozy!

And if they pursue it further after that, they would look extremely foolish... As long as the brother definitely didn't appeal as the driver, of course. 

[FTMDave]

It would be a very good idea for the brother to SAR Euro Car Parks.

It can't do any harm and at least will reveal what was written in the appeal.

Get that done today/tomorrow, invest in a 2nd class stamp and get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.  He'll have to stick in some ID otherwise ECP will use lack of ID as an excuse not to cooperate.

Edited April 19 by FTMDave
Typo

[Bilali8]

Perfect, thanks Dave.
 

You're right, a whole dodo storm this has been. As sons of first-generation immigrant parents, whenever something like this happens the old man panics. There was a whole "appeal this now" because my dad paid for the parking as he was with the hirer at the time and he isn't as tech-savvy as my brother so he ended up doing what he did and because I don't live there anymore it came all the way down to this. 

But yes, we'll do this SAR and see what comes of it. 

Will keep posting here with the hopes that it may benefit someone in the future. 

Thanks again, everyone. 

[Bilali8]

On the recommendation of Dave, I took the SAR template from CAG and scanned it over and adjusted the information relevant to this matter and sent it to my brother to print, sign and send. 

He signed it with the same signature he has on his provisional licence and he scanned and printed a copy of his provisional licence to prove identity/address.

Sent that tracked and then they responded with the most generic letter I've seen.

Clearly, they've anticipated people might do this and came up with nonsense.

They want proof of ID when we already sent proof of ID. Surely they're digging themselves a ditch at this point? 

 

2024-04-24 ECP SAR reply.pdf

[FTMDave]

Yes, they are digging themselves into a ditch, with regard to people like you who fight back.

Remember that, sadly, the vast majority of motorists who get these tickets think they are fines, that companies like ECP have some sort of official status, and give in and pay.

They are just putting barriers in your way and encouraging you to fold.

How about this as a reply -

Dear ECP,

Re: Subject Access Request
PCN no.XXXXX

I refer to my Subject Access Request dated XXXXX and received by yourselves on XXXXX.

Thank you for your bizarre letter of 23 April.  Your letter requests Photo ID - which I have already sent to you.  The letter also requests proof of ownership of the vehicle - this is impossible to produce as the vehicle in question was on hire.

In any case requests for proof of ownership are silly given your PCNs invite registered keepers to nominate drivers who do not own vehicles.

I note all this concern for correct identity was absent when you decided to send letters threatening me with all & sundry if I didn't pay you money!

The SAR was received on XXXXX.  I have already sent Photo ID.  The clock is ticking.  I am well aware that I would have the right to complain to the ICO and to sue you for not respecting your statutory duty should you not respect the 30-day deadline.

Tick, tock.

Yours, XXXXX

[Bilali8]

Although this situation is mildly disturbing like a fly trapped behind the curtain on a warm day, your creative responses are always a joy to read, Dave.

Cheers.

Will send across.