ECP PCN Rental Car - paid by app - no receipt - appeal refused - Mayfair - Achilles Way

[Bilali8]

1 Date of the infringement 17/11/23

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 23/11/23
 

3 Date received 27/11/23
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? Not sure
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] Y
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up Y
 

7 Who is the parking company? Euro car parks

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Mayfair - Achilles Way
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

BPA
 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure,

please check HERE

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

A bit of a tricky one this.

I'm posting this on behalf of my father/brother.

Father was with a friend who had rented a car and father had paid for the parking.

You can see the call log and the payment taken from the statement attached.

Later the rental company sends my father's friend the ticket they received from ECP.

My brother who's a kid "appeals" it, obviously getting rejected.

Now they think my brother who doesn't even have a license was the driver and are bugging with letters.

I know the first rule is not to appeal but they didn't know and now I'm here seeking your help to clean up this mess.

Thanks

 

 

docs1.pdf

[Bazooka Boo]

It's an invoice, NOT a fine.

They paid for parking, they have the evidence to back it up, so  ECP will be incredibly uneducated to even attempt to put this through the small claims.

 

As for the hire company, who incorrectly call it a fine, if they have charged the cardholder £68, then reclaim that using the chargeback rules, and send them the evidence that parking was paid for. (A copy of it)

If they continue to whine on, then exhaust their complaints procedure.

[Nicky Boy]

Hi Bilali,

It's a little confusing...

Did the rental company actually pay the ticket, or just invoice for forwarding the ticket to the hirer?

Has the hirer actually received any communication from ECP about this?

[Bilali8]

I checked with paybyphone but they didn't give me a receipt, they claimed they didn't have the record of it.

But the money was taken out, the call was made, and until now no money has been refunded

so safe to assume it's been paid for.

Safe to ignore then I'm guessing? 

the rental company forwarded it to the renter who then sent it to my father/brother.

My brother then appealed it because they had call logs/payment taken from bank account and now they think my brother was the driver.

The last letter was sent on 31/01/24 so safe to assume it wasn't paid. 

[Nicky Boy]

Have ECP ever sent a revised PCN to the renter?

It should also include other documents provided by the rental company.

Also, advise the renter to do a chargeback from the hire company.

They are not allowed to charge for this.

This is NOT a parking fine from any authority. It's a speculative invoice.

(See section 13 of their rental agreement)

[Bilali8]

I don't think so, after my brother appealed they've been sending him letters instead. 

The only thing I can think of now is that perhaps because it was paid over the phone the registration was given incorrectly?

But what are the chances that location info and bank info is given perfectly but the registration isn't?

In the paragraph in bold on the letter dated 12/12/23 they said they require a VAT receipt and whatnot, how do we get that lol

[Bazooka Boo]

VAT receipt??PAH!

 

You've got a bank statement clearly showing payment, that is all you need.

Doesn't matter if the VRN was given incorrectly, payment has been made, that trumps everything else.

 

[Nicky Boy]

Won't need it. It looks suspiciously like there's been a total screw up with paperwork.

I'm assuming that your brother appealed from the paperwork sent by the rental company?

Could we see his original appeal please?

And again...

1 hour ago, Nicky Boy said:

Have ECP ever sent a revised PCN to the renter?

It should also include other documents provided by the rental company.

We really need to know this.

The reasoning is that the rental company should have informed ECP who the renter was... Which means that they should now be chasing / communicating with the renter, NOT your bro'.

But, whatever you do... don't let ECP know they've screwed up!

How old is your brother?

[Bilali8]

Understood, with regards to my brother's appeal he did it via ECP website so he doesn't have a record of it. Ultimately he showed the call log and so on but there's no record of the original appeal form submitted via their website - thinking about it, quite sneaky isn't it?
 

22 minutes ago, Nicky Boy said:

Have ECP ever sent a revised PCN to the renter?

It should also include other documents provided by the rental company.

With regards to this, as far as I know only the original letter which I've shared. I will ask my dad to ask his friend for the full email as well and share once I receive it.
 

3 minutes ago, Nicky Boy said:

But, whatever you do don't let ECP know they've screwed up!

Not intending to contact them at all! But my lot are of the type that easily succumbs to fear of fake letters from lawyers and bailiff threats lol

@Bazooka Boo right? What's that all about. They really move like they are some mafia

[Nicky Boy]

13 minutes ago, Nicky Boy said:

How old is your brother?

If that's too sensitive a question... Is he old enough to hold a driving licence?

[Bilali8]

He's 18, no license 

[Nicky Boy]

Ok, thanks.

I was hoping he was younger, a lot younger... Would have been quite a giggle later on.

The important thing now is to determine whether ECP are chasing the original hirer. He should have got something along the lines of a "notice to hirer" along with other paperwork from the hire company.

Also, get your Dad to impress on him that he should get his "admin" charge back...

[dx100uk]

thread title updated.

i notice those are operator pictures of the car, was a windscreen PCN left on the car?

as BB says, you need to complain to the rental company and point out that this is NOT a Penalty Charge Notice so cannot be a fine!.

they are VERY wrong to label it a FINE and a Penalty Charge Notice!! ID10T's

dx

 

 

[Bilali8]

@dx100uk Nothing left on the windshield. Is there any point in responding to the rental company now that the letters are coming in my brother's name? 

Thanks for updating the title, I didn't want to make it too long winded

[dx100uk]

you are not responding

you are telling them they are WRONG. and complaining .

it wont hurt you in anyway.

sorry but they need a rocket up their exhaust pipe.

not sure id theres also a body or regulatory authority you can report them too.??

[Bilali8]

Yeah, I get that. I don't live in the UK anymore and trying to manage this for the family because you guys have helped me out in the past with similar issues. 

Father's friend is a bit of a high-profile person so I feel it'd be too much to ask him to do all of this. If it was me or my family directly... a different story entirely. 

I did, however, get confirmation from my father that the friend didn't pay the "admin" charge they asked him to pay or anything else and hasn't received any other correspondence from the rental company or ECP.

[Nicky Boy]

3 minutes ago, Bilali8 said:

I did, however, get confirmation from my father that the friend didn't pay the "admin" charge they asked him to pay or anything else and hasn't received any other correspondence from the rental company or ECP.

In that case, I'd be tempted to simply ignore anything further, UNLESS your bro' gets a letter of/before claim, then come back here.

Await comments from the other regulars.

[FTMDave]

Green Motion are the RyanAir of the car hire business.  Hire costs are very low but then they try to add on huge fees for next to nothing.  Anyway, as the "admin fee" hasn't been paid, problem solved.  It helps that Green Motion have stupidly referred to the fee as being for forwarding a Penalty Charge Notice/fine whereas in reality it is neither, it is a simple invoice.

ECP will however continue to hassle someone.  Are you comfortable with that person being your brother?

Also, if we can't see the appeal can we at least see ECP's reply to it?

[Nicky Boy]

2nd page of the PDF upload Dave.

[FTMDave]

Thanks Nick.

[lookinforinfo]

Bilal the way PCNs work with Hire companies  is like this.

1 ECP send a Pcn to the hire company.

2. the hire company don't pay the PCN they tell ECP the name and address of the driver plus a copy of the hire agreement with the diver as well as a copy the driver agreeing to be responsible for paying PCNs etc during the hire.

3. ECP should then send a new PCN to the driver as well as copies of everything from the hire company so that the driver is  fully aware of the situation and that they agree they were in charge of the car at the time of the alleged breach.

4. if ECP has not sent all of those documents, the hirer is not obliged to pay. THE HIRER LEGALLY DOES NOT NEED TO PAY. I repeated that to emphasise the situation.

You will have to check with the hirer whether they received all those documents. He [?] should have received at the very least a new PCN. Could you please get a copy of it and any other documents that were received at the same time. Unfortunately it will take time to resolve the matter and various threatening letters will continue. IF as has been usual in the past, all the documents that should have been sent have not all been sent then the hirer is in the clear despite the continued threats. But we do need to know for sure. I apprecaite it may not be easy but knowing that there may be  nothing to pay should help to calm the family.

 I suspect that when your Father paid he entered the wrong registration number  [perhaps his own car number?]

Edited February 26 by lookinforinfo

[Bilali8]

Thanks all for your responses. 

ECP didn't send the renter anything, confirmed. Also, the renter didn't pay the silly "admin" fee. 

My brother, however, who doesn't have a license (remember?) just got this in the mail, lol. 

 

2024-03-05 DR+ letter.pdf

[dx100uk]

safe to ignore

dx

[Bilali8]

Hey guys, another one in the mail. 

What do you guys advise? Thanks!

Debt collectors 2.1.pdf

[FTMDave]

More hot air from powerless paper tigers.

Use it for hamster bedding, or to play paper aeroplanes with, or a similar activity of your choice.