Returned iMac Lost or Stolen by UPS ***Resolved***

[circadian_rhythm]

Hello all. I am looking for a little guidance on what to do next.

I purchased an iMac in December 2023 which was delivered early January 2024

The iMac was diagnosed as faulty and a return initiated

• Self printed returns label attached to box
• UPS came next day with a different label as apparently Apple Care/Suport had also arranged a return
• UPS Driver agreed that my self-printed label should be used as it had correct weight as opposed to his 2kg weight
• After a few days, no update the item had been returned on Apple site
• Contacted UPS and received confirmation of collection (no tracking number though)
• Over the next couple of weeks contacting Apple every few days they advised an empty box was received weighing 56 grams
• Eventually Apple after investigation closed my case for a refund/replacement
• Filed a claim at UPS but could only use the tracking number Apple could give me 
• UPS security team phoned me separately due to this being a high value item
• Sent confirmation of collect, photo and video of driver collecting - said they would investigate and view offloading surveillance video and check scan logs
• Driver attempted to collect again whilst I was out using a photocopy of the Tracking Number that wasn't used for the return. I spoke to hime through Ring Doorbell and got him to confirm head had collected the iMac 2 weeks prior. Video recored conversation of this.

Subsequent attempts to contact both the UPS Claims dept and the lady from UPS security I was previously conversing with via email/phone (number witheld), have not been replied to.

Feeling like I am being stonewalled.

Would appreciate what I should do next as I don’t wont to let this drop out of principal and it is an extremely high value item (to me) which I am paying for with finance.

[dx100uk]

letter of claim time.

dx

 

[BankFodder]

Did you pay for any so-called insurance?

I'm going to to say now that it is a shame that you used your own label. If you had used the supplied label then it would be their liability immediately.

Too late now but for other people who see this, it is much better to let the supplier arrange the return as they then become directly liable as well as the courier.

Start reading lots of the stories on this sub forum and prepare your letter of claim and post a draft here in PDF format

[circadian_rhythm]

When I say my own label, it was produced from the Apple site after I raised a return from My Account.

I will wait 48 hours to see if I get a reply from UPS.

Failing that I will draft a Letter of Claim.

Many Thanks for your advice.

[lolerz]

If Apple provided a pre-paid label it's Apple's problem really.

Apple are the one who contracted UPS, not yourself.

Your liability ends with the proof of postage I'm pretty sure?

[circadian_rhythm]

Apple have denied my claim for a replacement or refund saying they received an empty box.

So I have lost £2k ?

The only proof I have is a confirmation that "an item" was collected - No reference other than Apple's Return Refernce

Edited February 13 by circadian_rhythm

[lolerz]

now who said that?

[circadian_rhythm]

Now I am confused.

Apple have basically washed their hands of it stating that they received an empty package.

It seems that UPS have delivered "something" to Apple, using the label the driver brought with him and not my package with the printed label I attached.

What's strange is the driver came to collect again with a photocopy of the label he originally brought.

Definitely something nefarious going on and I am at a loss of what to do to solve this.

My hopes were built up by UPS security person contacting me saying they would check surveillance video of the vehicle being offloaded with a description of the package collected and they would check driver logs for what was scanned.

I am 99% sure he scanned the label on the package before he left.  

[lolerz]

I realistically could have worded that a little better. Essentially by using Apple's pre-paid label Apple is just as liable as UPS for the package.

Your liability ended when you gave the package to UPS. You have proof saying that it was collected as well as your video evidence.

 

[circadian_rhythm]

So is it Apple I claim against or UPS ?

Apologies, I am a little lost, and these last 2 weeks have caused me quite a lot of stress.

[circadian_rhythm]

My last phonecall to Apple, basically I was told to contact the Police - They will know what to do.  

Of course when ringing the police, they advised sorting it with UPS and that "Apple would say that ... blah"

[lolerz]

You would raise the court claim against Apple.

Similar story here.
 

As it's on Finance you would also sue your finance company.

[circadian_rhythm]

Thank you

[BankFodder]

You haven't told us the value of the laptop.

Also, I asked you if you had paid insurance on the item for delivery and you haven't answered that.

I also suggested that you read the stories on the sub forum. Have you started that?

I now understand that the self-printed label was one which was arranged by Apple. Is this correct?

I understand that the item was faulty.

 does apple agree that it was faulty. How did they carry out this diagnosis? Have you something in writing from them which agrees that it was faulty

[circadian_rhythm]

Hi,

The value of the item was £1999.00

As the return was initiated via my Apple online account, Apple presumably paid for the return and any insurance cover under a contract they have with UPS.

I initially took the faulty iMac to a Genius Bar and they diagnosed it there and agreed it should be replaced (or refunded) but could not do so in store as it was an online purchase paid for by finance. The diagnosis was logged against my order which was all they could do.  They told me to contact Applce Care to arrange to get it returned.

--

I have just got off the phone with Barclays Partner Finance who have raised a section 75 against the finance and I will be contacted by their team for it to be investigated.  

I didn't even know this was an avenue open to me, so will pursue this for the time being.  They asked me to obtain a crime reference number from the police, but the police, who I have just spoke with, said they cannot give me a crime reference number, as until UPS confirm the item simply isn't just lost, all they can give me is a log number.  I'm hoping this is enough, because UPS are not replying to any emails I have sent.

Thanks again for your assistance, I will update when I have learnt any more. 

 

[BankFodder]

Can you tell me what a Genius Bar is

[circadian_rhythm]

It is Apple's Tech Support where they help with items purchased or test/check faulty items

[BankFodder]

Thank you.
I also realise that you are referring to your dates in generalities. You said that you bought it in December – no date. You said that you returned it in January – no date.
I understand that a fault was diagnosed by an Apple agent – but you have given is no date about this.
I think it will be helpful if you gave us a chronology and talked in specifics please

[circadian_rhythm]

Hi,

I was just writing a timeline of events in an email to Barclays Partner Finance along with all images and video evidence.

Here is a timeline of events:

9th January - iMac was delivered which I had ordered 23rd December

Took me a few days to clean up and backup old iMac that was on its last legs.

After setting up the new iMac and using it for a couple of days, I was not happy with the backlight bleed Iit was producing.

17th January - Called Apple Support to report a fault with the iMac - Was booked into Genius Bar in Solihull that same day - Took iMac to Genius bar and after diagnostics were run, was told it did not pass and that because the item was purchased online and with finance, they could not issue a replacement in store, but I should call Apple Care to arrange a replacement or refund. Results of the diagnostics were logged against the order.

On my return I called Apple care and they advised they had arranged a return and I would be contacted by UPS at 22:48 that evening.

At approx 23:00 I had not received an email, so I logged in to my Apple account and initiated a return against the order and was prompted to print out a Returns label.

I did so and attached it to the packaged iMac - the iMac was packaged in its product box and the sides taped.

18th January - UPS driver came whilst I was out, even though I had requested a collection between 10:00 - 18:00 - He posted a returns label trough my door.

18th January approx 14:15 - UPS driver returned and said he popped in earlier as he was passing, but due to me requesting collection after 10:00 he came back - He said it was ok to use the label I had printed and attached, as the label he had posted through the ltter box only had a weight of 2kg on it, whereas the one I had printed/attached had 11kg.  I queried that the address was slightly different but he said it was ok as it was an Apple depot.  He scanned what I assumed was the label I had attached, but I cannot be 100% certain.

After a few days of no update on my Apple account I called Apple Support to find out what was happening and they advised nothing had been received yet.

On or around 22nd January I received a call from Apple who were investigating the return and was advised that they had received an empty box.

I also received an email asking for particulars of what was returned, which courier, a description of the driver.

I responded to that email and attached a photo and video of the driver collecting. 

I kept calling Apple Support every couple of days to find out how the investigation was going.  Each time I was told not to worry it would be sorted out.  

They could not or would not  give me the tracking number of the tracking label I had printed from my online account.   I am sure something like that is logged against my account.

On 31st January I received an email from apple, similar email to the previous one, asking me to confirm details of what was returned, who collected it etc.  Basically a duplicate of one I had previously replied to. I again replied with the same information as before.

I called Apple Support to query why I had been sent this request a second time. I was told it happens sometimes.  I  also queried what tracking number and weight of the empty box they said they had received was and was advised the weight was 56 grams.  The tracking number they gave me was the tracking number the driver hadn't used.

On 2nd February I received an email from Apple advising they had concluded their investigation and I would not be getting a refund or replacement.

I again called Apple Support but was told there is nothing they can do and I should contact the police.

I contacted the police but was told to contact UPS.

UPS advised I would get a call in 24 hours which never materialised.

3rd February I filed a claim on the UPS website. However, as it required a Tracking number, I could only enter the Tracking Number that was not used on the collected item

5th February I received a call from security at UPS Tamworth who was investigating due to this being a high value item.  I was advised they had 5 days to investigate I was told this was separate to the claim I had put in but would liase with the claims department.

Over the next few days a couple of emails and calls with UPS security dept where I had sent video of the driver collecting, I was advised they would check surveillance video of the vehicle being off loaded and would check the scan logs of the date and time the item was collected, as well as questioning the driver. 

6th February, I was away from home when the UPS driver came to my address again.  Fortunately I have a ring doorbell so was able to answer his ring.  I questioned the driver who had brought with him a photocopy of the returns label that he had originally brought with him on the initial collection.  I asked him to confirm that he had collected an iMac a couple of week ago from me, which he confirmed and said that it was probably lost. He posted the returns label through my door and left as there was nothing to collect.   

I emailed UPS security with this video and returns label. They called and advised they were still checking surveillance video and awaiting the scan logs.

I have heard nothing since then from either UPS security or UPS Claims department despite numerous emails chasing the progress of the investigation. 

[BankFodder]

Thank you.

Our usual instinct would be to sue UPS.

However, in this case I think you should sue Apple.

If you sue UPS – you are not their direct customer and so you would have to rely on third-party rights under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999. This means that you would be suing in place of Apple and you would be treated for all intents and purposes as being a commercial customer.
But if you sue Apple, you will be able to invoke all your consumer rights including those under the consumer rights act 2015 which provides that if any faults within 30 days occurred you have an immediate right to reject and a full refund.
You are also entitled to sue them on the basis of your cooling off period, to return an online purchase for any reason within 14 days.

These are far more powerful rights then you would gain under the rights of third parties act.

I understand that you are trying to get some kind of chargeback or section 75 refund from the finance company. I can tell you that although this sounds like a good idea, it will take a long time. They don't like it. They want to carry out investigations. They will try to communicate with Apple. Apple will drag their heels. I can imagine that your finance company will start asking you for police reports et cetera.

The most simple and most direct and fastest way is to sue Apple directly and I would be sending them a letter of claim immediately. Of course don't imagine it is going to be quick but it will be the least complicated way to go ahead.
Not only that, you will be up to sue Apple for your money +8% interest – you won't be able to do that with your finance company.

If you have incurred any interest from the credit card loan, then you should be able to recover that as well.


As well as suing Apple, I would send them a subject access request. It will be interesting to learn from their files what they think has happened to the computer which was in the empty box. Do even know if it was the correct box? Or was it simply some other box which was substituted?
 

[circadian_rhythm]

Thank you again for your assistance with this. 

I will read up on what is involved now and let you know how it goes in due course

[jk2054]

I'm gonna say this once and once only.

Don't sue UPS

Sue apple.

Claim from your finance company

UPS will decline mediation and send a real solicitor

apple wont.

[circadian_rhythm]

Hi

I am writing the Letter of Claim now to Apple and will post it shortly before sending.

In the letter, do I request the full payment of the item plus finance costs?

[BankFodder]

Can you just explain a bit about the finance. Was this some kind of hire purchase agreement or did you simply buy on a credit card?

[circadian_rhythm]

It was finance that Apple offer via Barclays to pay over x amount of months.

Here is my letter of claim:

Apple Distribution International Ltd

Hollyhill Industrial Estate

Hollyhill

Cork

Republic of Ireland

 

15^th February 2024

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

WEB ORDER NUMBER: xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Apple ID: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

With reference to the above order number which was delivered on January 9^th 2024.

 

The item was diagnosed to be faulty at your Apple Genius Bar in Solihull on 17^th January 2024 and the staff at the Genius Bar logged the result against the order.

 

I requested a return/replacement on the same day and the iMac along with keyboard, mouse and accessories was collected by your delivery agent UPS on 18^th January 2024.

 

It appears the item collected by UPS was either lost or stolen en route to yourselves.

 

I have evidence of collection from UPS that the item was collected on 18^th January 2024 and video evidence from the UPS driver admitting that he collected the iMac.

 

A subsequent investigation by yourselves resulted in the case being closed will nil refund or replacement offered to myself.

 

I DO NOT accept this result. This is clearly a matter that needs to be resolved between yourselves and your delivery agent, UPS.

 

I therefore exercise my rights under the consumer rights act 2015 which stipulates that if a fault occurs with 30 days, I have the right to reject and to receive a full refund. The fault diagnosis recorded by Apple staff at your Genius Bar in Solihull on 17^th January 2024.

 

I also exercise my rights under the Distance Selling Regulations to a full refund as the item was returned within the default 14 day cooling-off period.

 

Order value: £1999.00

Finance charge: £101.34

Total refund: £ 2100.34

 

Failure to respond with an offer of a full refund by 29^th February 2024 will result in me raising a claim via the County Court. Additional costs and interest will also be added to the claim

 

 

Yours faithfully,

Edited February 14 by circadian_rhythm