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    • Northmonk forget what I said about your Notice to Hirer being the best I have seen . Though it  still may be  it is not good enough to comply with PoFA. Before looking at the NTH, we can look at the original Notice to Keeper. That is not compliant. First the period of parking as sated on their PCN is not actually the period of parking but a misstatement  since it is only the arrival and departure times of your vehicle. The parking period  is exactly that -ie the time youwere actually parked in a parking spot.  If you have to drive around to find a place to park the act of driving means that you couldn't have been parked at the same time. Likewise when you left the parking place and drove to the exit that could not be describes as parking either. So the first fail is  failing to specify the parking period. Section9 [2][a] In S9[2][f] the Act states  (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid; Your PCN fails to mention the words in parentheses despite Section 9 [2]starting by saying "The notice must—..." As the Notice to Keeper fails to comply with the Act,  it follows that the Notice to Hirer cannot be pursued as they couldn't get the NTH compliant. Even if the the NTH was adjudged  as not  being affected by the non compliance of the NTK, the Notice to Hirer is itself not compliant with the Act. Once again the PCN fails to get the parking period correct. That alone is enough to have the claim dismissed as the PCN fails to comply with PoFA. Second S14 [5] states " (5)The notice to Hirer must— (a)inform the hirer that by virtue of this paragraph any unpaid parking charges (being parking charges specified in the notice to keeper) may be recovered from the hirer; ON their NTH , NPE claim "The driver of the above vehicle is liable ........" when the driver is not liable at all, only the hirer is liable. The driver and the hirer may be different people, but with a NTH, only the hirer is liable so to demand the driver pay the charge  fails to comply with PoFA and so the NPE claim must fail. I seem to remember that you have confirmed you received a copy of the original PCN sent to  the Hire company plus copies of the contract you have with the Hire company and the agreement that you are responsible for breaches of the Law etc. If not then you can add those fails too.
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    • I understand what you mean. But consider that part of the problem, and the frustration of those trying to help, is the way that questions are asked without context and without straight facts. A lot of effort was wasted discussing as a consumer issue before it was mentioned that the property was BTL. I don't think we have your history with this property. Were you the freehold owner prior to this split? Did you buy the leasehold of one half? From a family member? How was that funded (earlier loan?). How long ago was it split? Have either of the leasehold halves changed hands since? I'm wondering if the split and the leashold/freehold arrangements were set up in a way that was OK when everyone was everyone was connected. But a way that makes the leasehold virtually unsaleable to an unrelated party.
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2024-01-11 Harrow PCN - Stopping in a Box Junction


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  • dx100uk changed the title to 2024-01-11 Harrow PCN - Stopping in a Box Junction
On 21/02/2024 at 14:00, dx100uk said:

photo shows you followed another car into the box, so as i've said several times, you are on the backfoot here already as you should not have done that anyway.

are these the people you have appealed too?

Environment and Traffic Adjudicators | London Tribunals

if not you should do so.

Council PCN's were decriminalised years ago, there are no 'court proceedings'?? 

scan up this letter please

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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They are still saying right at the end of the letter that "you can view CCTV evidence of your case online"...?????

Crazy!

The letter (1st page) also says that the email they sent on 15 Jan gave you an email to contact for the CCTV footage.

I've looked at your post on the 15th Jan quoting from that email, and you don't mention the email contact details.

Maybe check what the original email says again?

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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Nicky Boy

 

No CCTV online as checked by other members of CAG . Still photo turned up on 21/2 

 

I did email CCTV operations no response.

No rejection letter toy informal appeal no contact from them until I emailed them on 21/2

 

Does the PATAS not exist anymore as I didn't get notice of rejection I go no appeal paperwork - 

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54 minutes ago, onestressedwoman said:

haven't been given a verification code for me to be able to appeal there ?

reply to harrow stating you wish a rejection letter to be issue so you can appeal to:

WWW.LONDONTRIBUNALS.GOV.UK

Important Notice The appellant portal will be unavailable due to planned maintenance between 8:00pm and 11:59pm on Thursday 1st February...

ensure you request all the info the above site lists as a requirement to use them.

read the link above carefully

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Doing that right now DX thank you !

You know how stressed these things make me so I really appreciate your assistance !

P.S. I logged on again just to check no cctv has been added and nothing has been added on their systems

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I have had a response, not giving me what I asked, just a duplicate of what was sent before but the dates on the letters have been altered now one is dated 

1st March received by post copied here 

4th of March never received

12th of March email l received 

No rejection notice, what on earth 

They are seriously bullying me now and they are removing my right to appeal what now?

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i will guess this is too early for it to be a response to you wanting a rejection letter? you were sending thursday.?

or is it

50 minutes ago, onestressedwoman said:

removing my right to appeal

could be their rejection not removal..

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yes DX

I emailed them on Thursday

I called London Tribunal and outlined my case he was very nice and informed me without a charging certificate he has no way of knowing what stage this is at

he said I could forward what I have to them for them to look over it without an appeal of sorts or as I do not have documentation I need to bring it to them maybe wait till I get charge notice and appeal to the court ...

although he said that's long winded and on checking with his manager he informed me that the court would not issue anything to me without charging cert.

We discussed the option to go to a solicitor and get them to write the local authority a letter .. however this would be more costly than the Penalty charge notice.

Now it seems all I can do is write to my MP.

Honestly I want to tear my hair out !

It shouldn't be too soon for a reply to my request for a rejection letter as they wrote this letter to me today should it?

 

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I've been told I can't do anything apart from pay them

they are not willing to provide CCTV???

they say in the first image uploaded I was in contravention

I have told them again my car is not in the box and is the one with the L shaped headlights ...

I'm speaking to imbeciles

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DX I hope you're still reading this as I do you too Nicky boy

You wont believe this nonsense

they said no matter how far this goes I wont see CCTV, Cllr was a bit stand offish at first but after today omg!

Truthfully I was so stressed I was just going to log on and pay as the system had reset to £65 I was going allow them to bully me into paying.

However there was a box for me to appeal the ticket so I did !

I sent it through to the councillor the moment I had lodged the challenge.

Get this............. 5 minutes later I received an email copy of CCTV some 33 days after requesting it.

(I haven't watched it yet I've been in the hospital all day} 

I send a message to cllr to tell him they have finally sent through the CCTV ending my message they are jokers they really are.

Cllr responds saying " I've received this now too " ... he is as dumfounded with this as I am 

Email written to him says

" Following legislation, another 9 days must pass before we are allowed to register the PCN as the traffic Enforcement Centre and send out an order for recovery. They are likely to receive the document early April "

What on earth is going on here ???

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now you need to view the CCTV footage within 9 days.

if the footage shows you entering the box (i'e following another car through it) when there was not enough room for you to fully exit the box when you entered it, then i recommend you pay it ASAP.

if the footage shows the box was TOTALLY CLEAR when you entered it, with enough room for you to completely exit it. then you should not pay it.

 

  • I agree 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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It sounds suspiciously like the process that's just been followed should be the regular way of doing things and they just screwed up the first time around?

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

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DX - Nicky Boy

 

I followed the link and guess what is doesn't go to any CCTV just back to the images on PCN  But now it says payment £195 I'm going to scream now the ticket is £195 they are taking this straight to court aren't they 

WHAT ON EARTH IS GOING ON

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tell the councillor/local MP

TfL don't do court.

yellow box infractions were decriminalised years ago.

You must not enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right.

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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