New strategy for Allocation Questionnaires

[GaryH]

No, you don't need to do or send anything just yet - the 14 days starts from the date the judge actually orders the directions, if indeed he does at all.

[Castlebest]

I can see the validity of the draft directions and do agree this is the best course of action in cases where the judge has issued an AQ

My earlier post was made from the point of view where no AQ has been issued or requested by the court.

In some cases now District Judges seem to be ordering a stay for a period of time to allow the parties to reach agreement and even making reference to the Mediation service (which I believe is totally inappropriate).

I have been suggesting members apply to have the stay set aside on the grounds that their banks solicitors have made no attempt to reach any agreement to that point and will not do so until they are forced to by the court, the stay is therefore just prolonging the case with no useful effect.

Do we have grounds to submit the draft order where no AQ has been requested? If this is the case it could form a useful addition to any request to set aside the stay.

pete

[kennyh]

If the judge in the court concerned has dispensed with the AQ, just how likely is he/she to allow a DOD. What about issuing a CPR 18?

[Castlebest]

You generaly have only 7 days to get the stay set aside, anything you do has to be quick.

 

I'm a trench soldier, (construction surveyor) I know contract law but not familiar with the forms from their reference numbers, whats a CPR 18 do ?

 

pete

[smartellie]

hi Gary: Help needed

 

apologies everyone for hijacking this thread, but what a fantastic thread, its takem me hours to read it into the wee small hours and it has answered most of my questions. MY AQ is due on the 14/5, and i made a mistake on my interest calculation this was beforre i found this site and the spreadsheet. Having read through all the threads for Darling 1, Milktray man and Haydn (well done for sticking to your guns), i will just claim stat interest. My claim is for £7.5K charges plus stat interest which takes it to over £10K. My cock up (sorry maths was never my strong point) is that i did a rough and ready calculation by adding 8% to the annual charges so i did myself out of a £1k. I dont want the B.....ds to keep a penny of my money that they are not entitled to; After repeatedly slapping myself from reading all the threads there are two options i can see;

 

(1) a formal application to change N244 pay £35 and serve the new N! claim form the defendants (FD Bank and DG); my concern here is will that mean i go back to stage one and they have 28 days to submit a new defence etc

 

OR

(2) put the amount of charges, plus interest, plus costs on the AQ with a revised schedule showing the correct amount of interest at 8%. This option i prefer because its simple (like me) but would i get away with it.

 

will be sending your draft directions etc, having read all the threads about fasttrack and small claims, i see disclosure applies to fastrack so i might stay with that track;

 

 

what do you reckon, option 1 or 2 or do you have an option 3 or 4, Help!!!!

 

kind regards

 

Ellie:

 

P.S.

forgot to add that on the request for directions i added the following, that the defendants supply the following information:

1. the total number of claims received by the defendants about bank charges;

2. the total number of customers that they had repaid;

3. the total number of cases that they had defended in court

 

i saw this on a thread a while ago so i can't credit the original author, i don't know if it will be granted, i hoping that it might save time and force them to settle

[Finalreminder]

Finally received a court date from the court after sending in my AQ

So I can expect Abbey to cave between now and then I take it.

Not that I wouldnt mind going to court:)

 

[Shoe Em]

I am very keen to apply the new strategy to my AQ & have read & (hopefully) understood all the steps this afternoon. Before I return it to the court (wednesday) I would really like someone to tell me if I can use the aggressive version exampled in a linked thread with Abbey & if so where I might find a template for this.

 

Also does anyone have any updates to the section G draft order that are pertinent to Abbey?

 

Thanks guys!

[rrhysevans]

Recently wrote a letter to my district Judge asking that a stay be lifted and attached the draft order for directions. I have had the following letter back stating:

 

1. The stay is lifted.

2. The court will send to the defebdants a copy of the claimants letter plus enclosures.

3. The claim be allocated to the small claims track.

4. The claim itself be listed for final hearing at 10am on Tuesday 3rd July 2007 at ****. Time allowed: 5 Minutes.

 

I was surprised that I have only been allocated 5 mins, but I see that as a positive.

However, from what I understand, no order has been made to follow my draft order of directions. I am also unable to attend the court on the date stated as I am relocating to Canada in June. This was made clear in the AQ that I would not be available after the end of May.

 

Is it possible to write to the Jude and explain this, and ask him to order that the draft directions be followed. This would not only speed up the process, but would save the courts time, as I will be very surprised if Barclays provide the details requested.

 

I did call the bank asking if the would like to consider settling the claim out of court, but that was a couple of days before I recieved a letter saying the claim was stayed. Should I try again. They were quite rude last time.

[Shoe Em]

I've now been sent a link to a useful Abbey thread, thanks everyone.

 

E x

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/88172-shoe-em-abbey.html?highlight=shoe+em+vs+Abbey

[Castlebest]

Hiya rrhysevans, nice one, I read that as a worse case scenario of settled by the 3rd July, time allowed is because the District Judge knows it wont get to court, I have seen posts of one minute allowed.

He says he has sent them a copy of your letter and enclosures would have been better if he crossed out "draft" on the enclosure but I see this as throwing the pressure to settle before the court date squarely against your bank.

Don’t know which bank your claim's against but try looking at this thread, it's HSBC forum but it was written as an open thread very early on in the no AQ scenario to attract information and comment and has a sound logical basis of action.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/78873-new-after-28-days.html

Some of the members are dubious of its effect but let’s face it, if you write them a letter they have to get your file out to put the letter away, if you don’t your file stays in the cupboard, In your case the Judge is basically telling them to settle by the court date so would think its worth a shot.

pete

[GaryH]

If the judge in the court concerned has dispensed with the AQ, just how likely is he/she to allow a DOD. What about issuing a CPR 18?

Not very in all probability. Case management proposals are a main purpose of the allocation questionnaire. IMO if the court has dispensed with the AQ then it has also dispensed with the parties influence over case management, as well as allocation.

 

The alternative is a formal application, which would perhaps be disproportionate in most cases, although there are some exceptions depending on the bank.

 

Yes, certainly submit a part 18, but only if you are reasonably expecting your claim to go fast track. Also the functions of a part 18 would not extend to disclosure as such, only information.

hi Gary: Help needed

 

(1) a formal application to change N244 pay £35 and serve the new N! claim form the defendants (FD Bank and DG); my concern here is will that mean i go back to stage one and they have 28 days to submit a new defence etc

This is your only real option, the court won't allow any changes to the value of your claim without a formal application. Its a little bit extra hassle, but for a grand its most certainly worth it!

 

There is a guide to amending a claim here, which was written for situations where an inadequate POC was used, so you'll have to amend to suit -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/47344-claim-too-vague-defence.html

 

They will not be required to submit an amended defence for a simple amendment to the interest value. You should'nt lose any time at all.

Finally received a court date from the court after sending in my AQ

So I can expect Abbey to cave between now and then I take it.

Not that I wouldnt mind going to court:)

 

Standard small claims track directions. See here -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/guidance-notes/64911-got-court-date-guide.html

 

Recently wrote a letter to my district Judge asking that a stay be lifted and attached the draft order for directions. I have had the following letter back stating:

 

1. The stay is lifted.

2. The court will send to the defebdants a copy of the claimants letter plus enclosures.

3. The claim be allocated to the small claims track.

4. The claim itself be listed for final hearing at 10am on Tuesday 3rd July 2007 at ****. Time allowed: 5 Minutes.

 

I was surprised that I have only been allocated 5 mins, but I see that as a positive.

However, from what I understand, no order has been made to follow my draft order of directions. I am also unable to attend the court on the date stated as I am relocating to Canada in June. This was made clear in the AQ that I would not be available after the end of May.

 

Is it possible to write to the Jude and explain this, and ask him to order that the draft directions be followed. This would not only speed up the process, but would save the courts time, as I will be very surprised if Barclays provide the details requested.

 

I did call the bank asking if the would like to consider settling the claim out of court, but that was a couple of days before I recieved a letter saying the claim was stayed. Should I try again. They were quite rude last time.

Barclays will not settle until a few days before the court date, and have admitted as much, so there is no point in ringing them - certainly not at this stage.

 

You need to write to the court and explain that you are away on the date which has been set, and request that; a) its moved to an alternative date, or b) that the court allows the claim to be heard upon your written submissions. If the latter is the case then you'll have to file a very detailed witness statement alongside your bundle.

 

If you have already proposed the directions without success then the judge will not reconsider them, certainly not without an application anyway.

[yogachick123]

Hi Guys

 

Just wish to confirm some information as I am at AQ stage and do not wish to make a mess of it now.

 

My claim is against Woolwich/Barclays and I have today received an AQ (N150 as my claim is just over £14,000 including the 8% interest).

 

I have decided to use the "New" AQ strategy and am going to use the following, would be greatly appreciated if you could confirm that I am using the correct stuff.

 

Under attached directions (section F), on a separate piece of paper and of course with my own details inserted:

 

"

In the XXXXXX County Court

Claim number XXXXXX

 

 

 

Between

XXXXXXXX - Claimant

and

XXXXX - Defendant

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

• a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and reason given (if any) for that charge being made;

• b) Copies of any statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every charge has been made;

• c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise;

• d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

 

 

2. The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed;

• a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

• b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not;

• c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was;

• d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable.

• e) Any witness statements.

• f) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order."

Under Section H Other Information will attach the following:

To attach to section H of AQ

"You -v- Bank Plc

Claim No:*******

 

N149/N150 Allocation Questionnaire

 

 

Section G/H - other information

 

If the court is in agreement, the Claimant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

The Claimant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously;

 

- The actual loss suffered by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.

 

- In the event that the Defendant's charges were accepted as being a fee for a contractual service (which is refuted), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

The Claimant believes that if the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, that it is incumbent upon it to disclose such information.

 

Additionally, the Claimant is aware that the proposed directions are now routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Willesden and Mansfield County Courts.

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that this claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour."

Also going to write in that box

"Please find attached to this Allocation Questionnaire;

1) Section H - Other Information

2) Draft Order for Directions

In the alternative if this claim is allocated to the fast track I would respectfully request an order of standard disclosure.

This AQ and its attachments were sent to the Defendant on (date)"

I am hoping I have covered all bases here.

Could you also confirm whether I tick Small Claims track on section D or do I tick Fast Track as my claim is over £5,000?

Really appreciate your help guys

Yogachick

PS my AQ needs to be filed by 21 May

[13169]

Just to let you know that I received my hearing date from the court, with an order from the judge that i provide parts a,b,c and d from the draft order that you guys suggest and that abbey in turn has to provide a-f about its charges (including revealing their true costs). i hadnt sent an AQ as they dispensed with it and i hadnt yet requested a draft order. it seems the courts are on to this now and ordering it themselves so as to speed up the process. the only downside to the court ordering it rather than myself is that my deadline for submission is a month before the courts, so i will have definitely have to send my papers off instead of waiting to see if abbey settle first (although i will still write to them to give them the option to settle -at least so that the court can see that i tried). has this happened to anyone else?

 

i know you have various links to documents a,b,c and d which should be included in the bundle but, while everyone else has trouble understaning c and d, i am confused by a. 'in a schedule under the headings 'date', 'amount' and 'description' give details of each item in respect of which a refund is sought'. is that literally just copying my statement out? what do i put under description? would that be the description the bank gives for the charge?

 

i guess with c and d i can just use the docs you give us? will i need to add anything else to either of those?

 

thanks!

[13169]

also, i didnt choose the option to add interest to my claim, is it too late to do that now? please help!

[Finalreminder]

snip

 

Cheers Gary!

[smartellie]

This is your only real option, the court won't allow any changes to the value of your claim without a formal application. Its a little bit extra hassle, but for a grand its most certainly worth it!

 

There is a guide to amending a claim here, which was written for situations where an inadequate POC was used, so you'll have to amend to suit -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/47344-claim-too-vague-defence.html

 

They will not be required to submit an amended defence for a simple amendment to the interest value. You should'nt lose any time at all.

 

Thanks Gary,

 

I eventually managed to get through to my local court after several days of trying hence my panic; they are really snowed under, they have confirmed, but stated the cost will be £65 and not £35 as it has to open parties (not sure i got that right, the £65 shocked me!!) Thanks for the thread i have started working on a provisional draft tN244, the big question i think was would it all have to start again which concerned me, but you have took me out of panic mode!! your'e right i can't let them get away with a grand. The other thing that struck me, is that i have only claimed for the charges, i.e. excess overdraft ee, returned dd fee, i have not claimed back the debit interest that goes along with the charges on the statement, several pounds at a time; should i have included this or stay well clear? I think it was all the debate on contractual interest that made me leave this alone,

 

do you mind if i post my draft N244 on before i take it to the court for a quick once over.

 

many thanks, you are an absolute star and a lifesaver

 

ellie

[lancashirelass]

Sent off my AQ, DO, Section G other information to CC on 1st May, should I ring the CC and see what the judge has decided and should I start printing court bundle now also should I contact Ms Ross YB's Solicitor to see if she wants to settle now? gettin nervous now to be honest!

[GaryH]

No, do not do that. YB are vicious and they will smell your nervousness.

 

No need to be nervous, it sounds like your doing everything right and the claim is progressing exactly how it should.

 

Have you got a thread in the YB forum?

[lancashirelass]

Yes I have a thread on YB's Forum, So I won't contact CC or Ms Ross, Thanks for your advice much appreciated

[13169]

can anyone please tell me if i can amend my claim to add interest? i opted not to claim interested when i first filed my claim. it seems now like it could add a fair bit to my claim amount and i wondered if it is too late to claim it? please help! thanks

[smartellie]

can anyone please tell me if i can amend my claim to add interest? i opted not to claim interested when i first filed my claim. it seems now like it could add a fair bit to my claim amount and i wondered if it is too late to claim it? please help! thanks

 

Hi if you read my posts further up the page at #862 and Gary's #868 and my later post you will need to do a formal application on form N244, we are in the same position and i will besubmitting mine over the weekend,i will post the draft on this thread if it helps. GaryH posted a useful link to an amendment on #873

 

i don't know if you are amending to claim stat interest at 8% or contractual or both in the alternative, i am just amending the statutory interest calculation, from all the threads everyone has posted on the contractual interest debate (and there are many) you really need to make your own mind up whether you wish to follow that route.

 

if you need anything further don't hesitate to ask, everyone helps ont his site

 

kind regards Ellie

[georgieboy]

Do we need to copy the statement of evidence or is there a copy to complete online - also I am unable to get the Early motion and OFT link on the court bundle download. Any help gratefully received..

[13169]

Hi Ellie

 

Thanks a lot for your response. I had read through those threads but I was worried that yours was an ammendment to the calculation of interest, where as I had ticked a box on my online form stating that I do not wish to claim interest. I don't know if I can go back on that. To be honest I don't really understand the difference between stat interest or contractual interest either. If you or anyone could help me on that I would be very grateful!

[13169]

I should add that I have already been given a hearing date and have a deadline of 2 weeks time to serve my documents as per the draft order cited on CAG. Does that not make it too late? Or can I send my ammended claim with those documents? Thanks

[kennyh]

So, 13169, you issued a DoD and the judge has used it - yes? If so- RESULT! And have you included it in the poll above?