UKCP/CGTT (ZZPS)/QDR ANPR PCN PAPLOC Now Claimform - Junction Street Retail park. leeds

[bradfordlad]

Yes of course DX - images attached in the PDF that was attached to their email. 

Will I be able to find out exactly which 2 cameras they captured the number plate with?  If the car was actually parked when they were taken, then this point is irrelevant, but if they were taken on entry/exit then I have an interesting observation.

As far as I remember, and as can be seen on Google Maps, there is a little used road at the rear of the retail park that leads out and away to join the main road.   

Surely they wouldn't be arrogant enough to think they can get away with an accusation of parking, when you could have just driven up through the park, and returned the same way shortly afterwards? 

 I'm going to check this road tomorrow, but as I say, if the camera is pointing at the parking space then it's irrelevant. 

Signs on site.pdf

[dx100uk]

can you put up a much better scan of just the in/out pictures please from the PCN/NTK.

cant find the ANPR camera s anywhere.

[bradfordlad]

Hi DX -

they actually included both photos with the email, but I had to convert them from PDF and remove the number plate, then back to PDF again. 

 Still terrible quality, but here you go...

Crown Point images-2.pdf Crown Point images-1.pdf

[bradfordlad]

Hi all,  returned from holiday to find a Claim Form waiting for me....

I've read (and continue to) other similar threads, so I think I know what I'm doing - do you want me to post the claim form here or is there no point?

Cheers

[Nicky Boy]

Please fill in this sticky...

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/393251-received-a-court-claim-from-a-private-parking-speculative-invoice-how-to-deal-with-it-hereupdated-dec-2021/#comment-4735332

 

[bradfordlad]

Which Court have you received the claim from ? MCOL Northampton N1

Name of the Claimant :     UK PARKING CONTROL LIMITED

Claimants Solicitors:   DCB LEGAL LTD

Date of issue – 09 AUG 2023

Date for AOS - 27TH AUGUST 2023

Date to submit Defence - FRIDAY 8TH SEPTEMBER

What is the claim for – 

1. The defendant (D) is indebted to the claimant (C) for a Parking Charge(s) issued to vehicle XXXX XXX at Junction Street Retail Park, Junction Street, Leeds, LS10 1ET.

2. The PCN details are 06/01/22, xxxxxxxxxxxxx

3. The PCN(s) was issued on private land owned or managed by C.  The vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms on C's signs (the Contract), thus incurring the PCN(s)The driver agreed to pay within 28 days but did not. D is liable as the driver or keeper.  Despite requests, the PCN(s) is outstanding.  The contract entitles C to damages.  

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS: 1. £170 being the total of the PCN(s) and damages. 2. Interest at the rate of 8% per annum pursuant to s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 from the date hereof at a daily rate of £0.02 until judgement or sooner payment. 3. Costs and court fees.

What is the value of the claim?

Amount Claimed  £177.40

court fees £35.00

legal rep fees £50.00

Total Amount £262.40

Have you moved since the issuance of the PCN? NO

Did you receive a letter of Claim With A reply Pack wanting I&E etc about 1mth before the claimform?  YES - 14th June 2023.  I sent a snotty letter (email).  Their Letter didn't include an I&E, it referred me to their website to complete it there. 

Cheers

Just preparing the letter to solicitors. 

Given there is a choice of several parking signs in their carpark, should I request images of the signs they are referring to (the contract), or should I keep that to myself for now? They did include images of SOME of the signs (the ones with the small print terms) in their reply to my snotty letter so am I just being pedantic? 

Also, am I able to ask them for the location of the ANPR camera(s) that captured the number plate on entry/exit? 

So far all I have requested is: 

1. The contract between UK Parking Control Limited and the landowner that assigns the right to enter into contracts with the public and make claims in their own name.

 2. Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007

 3. Copies of the notice to driver, notice to keeper and any other correspondence from UK Parking Control Limited & DCB Legal Ltd to the defendant that they intend to rely upon in court.

Not sure whether to just keep it very simple for now...

In the meantime I'm going down there this afternoon to take photo's of ALL the signs, and to investigate the back road out of the the retail park.  

Claim form.pdf

[dx100uk]

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform

.register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
Go to HMRC's login page.

Click the GREEN sign in button.
Click “Create sign in details”
Enter your email address where asked.
You will now be emailed a confirmation code. ...

You will now be issued with a User ID for your government gateway account.
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
then log in to the MCOL Website

.select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.then using the details required from the claimform

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim

type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything

.you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

………….
just send the CRP as is .dont go giving things away.

 

[bradfordlad]

Thanks DX, yes I've done the MCOL as "defend all", so just got the CPR request to send off. 

Just been down to the carpark and I THINK I can see which camera is likely to have been used, and that particular carpark is one way in/out, so I won't pursue the "I was only passing through" avenue of defence!

Will send it with just the 3 points as per post #57. 

Many thanks  

BL

[bradfordlad]

Ok

Reply to CPR letter received by email from solicitors as follows.  Thoughts please gang

Dear BRADFORDLAD,

We write in response to your recent correspondence dated 14^th August 2023.

For clarity, the Landowner agreement is a contract between the Landowner and our Client which permits our Client to operate the parking scheme on the land on behalf of the Landowner. Thus, our Client is authorised to issue Parking Charge Notices to any motorists that have breached the terms and conditions of parking. Planning permission is therefore not required for the signage on site.

In relation to your request for a copy of the Landowner agreement, this bares no relevance on the contract between yourself and our Client. Furthermore, you are a third party, hence privity of contract applies, and a copy will not be provided at this stage.

We respectfully draw your attention to our previous correspondence dated 4^th July 2023 which includes the copies of the Notices to Keeper as requested.

You have until 28^th August to pay the outstanding balance of £262.40.    

Failure to do so will result in a County Court Judgment (CCJ) being issued against you in default without further notice. 

This can be done via bank transfer to our designated client account: - 

• Account Name: DCB Legal Ltd Client Account 

• Sort Code: 20-24-09 

• Account Number: 60964441 

You must quote the correct case reference xxxxxxxxxxxx when making payment. If you do not, we may be unable to correctly allocate the payment. If further action is taken by us as a result of an incorrect reference being quoted, you will be liable for any further fees or costs incurred. 

Alternatively, you can contact DCB Legal Ltd on 0203 434 0437 to make payment over the telephone or online at https://dcblegal.co.uk/response/pay-online/   

Kind Regards, 

 XXXXXXX

DCB Legal Ltd  

Tel: 0203 434 0433 | DX 23457 Runcorn 

[FTMDave]

Standard bilge from them, except ...

... they've admitted there is no planning permission.  They don't normally do this.  It's nonsense that planning permission is "not required" .  You can use this against them later.

The imbeciles also reckon you will get a CCJ by default if you don't pay.  Eh?  There is the alternative that you defend the case.  Don't forget to do so in early September.

[bradfordlad]

I thought it odd too FTMDave. 

Surely plan ING permission has nothing to do with whether there is a landowner agreement? 

 

Also, how does their 'deadline' of 28th August work, considering I have already acknowledged their claim and confirmed I intend to defend all??

Anything I need to do for now (other than more reading!)

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

ignore them.

you defence filing date is correct in that sticky you filled out

[Nicky Boy]

1 hour ago, bradfordlad said:

You have until 28^th August to pay the outstanding balance of £262.40.    

Failure to do so will result in a County Court Judgment (CCJ) being issued against you in default without further notice.

This intimidatory statement totally flies in the face of the government code of practice and should certainly be highlighted in any future WS.

[lookinforinfo]

You really have to wonder if DCBL have any legal knowledge at all about  the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

The definition of a relevant contract in the Act is

relevant contract” means a contract (including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land) between the driver and a person who is(a)

the owner or occupier of the land; or(b)

authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land;

So under PoFA the contract is between the land owner and the driver [so not the keeper] although the land owner can delegate their wishes to the lesser human beings that are UKPC.

I fail to see why that means that UKPC do not require planning permission for their signs.

The relevance of the land owner contract is that if there is no land owner contract then UKPC have no authority to impose their own contract on the driver.  [By the way DCBL, BEARS relevance not bares relevance. Dummies.]

And lack of planning permission for signs and ANPR cameras is illegal as you can see if you read this article

 

Confused advertisement consent order - a Freedom of Information request to Barrow in Furness Borough Council - WhatDoTheyKnow

WWW.WHATDOTHEYKNOW.COM

---

Your response to another Information Request shows that on 3rd February 2015 Barrow Council issued to ParkingEye Ltd a Notice of Consent to display their parking sign advertisements at the Range car...

 

[bradfordlad]

Afternoon all, 

Just been reading a few threads to get my knowledge up to speed. Defence has to be filed by 8th Sept. 

Under the CPR request, I asked for: 

1. The contract between UK Parking Control Limited and the landowner that assigns the right to enter into contracts with the public and make claims in their own name.

 2. Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007

 3. Copies of the notice to driver, notice to keeper and any other correspondence from UK Parking Control Limited & DCB Legal Ltd to the defendant that they intend to rely upon in court.

Their response as above was: 

1. "You can't have the contract" - NO CONTRACT PROVIDED

2. "No planning permission is needed" with some completely irrelevant reason!

3. Copies of the NTK and photos taken of the reg plate. 

SO.....to my defence...

I have the standard template, but would just like a bit of guidance on the individual points please. 

1. Regarding the PCN not being POFA Compliant - I'm not clear why it isn't compliant. I get the quote in @lookinforinfo post #64 above, in that the contract is between the landowner and the driver, but what is missing from their PCN that allows them to chase the Keeper?  Sorry if I've missed it - I have read SO many threads recently my head is getting a bit fried! 
 

2. Their claim that planning permission isn't needed for signage. I think we all know this means it doesn't exist, but as with any claim, guesswork means nothing in court.  At what point do I put them to proof that planning has been granted? 

3. They won't provide the contract between UKPC and the landowner, so how do we get them to prove that this contract gives UKPC authority to issue PCN's?  Or do we even do that?

I think I'm getting to the stage where I can't see the wood for the trees - any advice appreciated guys, thank you. 

[Nicky Boy]

Where did you get that from?

Standard defence as dx said is further down the sticky you filled out.

Q2) How should I defend?

 

Make sure everything applies to your own case and post it up here before you submit...

[bradfordlad]

Sorry @Nicky Boy  That's not my defence!    I'm just trying to get my head around a few things, so I can put the defence together in a meaningful way.  Or am I confusing that with the Witness Statement?!

[bradfordlad]

This is my draft defence so far...

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature which fails to comply with CPR 16.4.  The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1.  It is admitted that the Defendant is the recorded keeper of CAR REG NUMBER HERE.  The Claimant is not in a position to state if the Defendant was the driver at the time.

 

 2.  As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.  The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 

 

3.  It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. Further, it is denied that the Claimants signage is capable of creating a legally binding contract.

  

4.  In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant.

 

5.  The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the recovery claimed or any recovery at all.

 

[Nicky Boy]

Confused.Com!

yes, looks like you were talking about your Witness Statement (WS).

[FTMDave]

I know your son was driving.  Who is being sued here?  Sorry if it's been mentioned in the thread but I've forgotten!

[Nicky Boy]

I'd remove the parts I've highlighted in red... Vague is good!

Wait for others to comment

[Nicky Boy]

Also, when is your defence due date?

Don't file too early...

[bradfordlad]

18 minutes ago, FTMDave said:

I know your son was driving.  Who is being sued here?  Sorry if it's been mentioned in the thread but I've forgotten!

Me as the registered keeper.  Definitely not admitted anything on that score

 

17 minutes ago, Nicky Boy said:

Also, when is your defence due date?

Don't file too early...

8th September I think! Does the AOS extend the deadline date?

[bradfordlad]

35 minutes ago, Nicky Boy said:

Confused.Com!

yes, looks like you were talking about your Witness Statement (WS).

Ah ok - so removing the bits is red keeps it vague at this stage, then I hit them with the facts on the Witness Statement?

[FTMDave]

Spot on.