Lost Section 21 accelerated possession claim - want help with set aside and counterclaim

[dx100uk]

sorry but shelter is your one stop online help for everything section 21.

 

if the judge makes an order

An outright possession order sets a 'date for possession'.

It will usually be 2 weeks after the decision is made. You can ask the court to delay the possession date for up to 6 weeks if it would cause you hardship to leave sooner.

 

This is not the same as the eviction date and you do not have to leave by the date on the order. But if you stay, your landlord can ask bailiffs to evict you.

 

You can apply to set aside a possession order made under the accelerated procedure if you can show that the section 21 notice was not valid.

You must do this within 2 weeks of getting a copy of the order.

 

 

so was that what you did with YOUR N244, or did you file it for another reason?

 

 

oh and

tnx to the backroom braincell, 

you cant file an n245 nor an n244 for ctax debt.

simply ignore the bailiff totally...it will be handed back to the council...max cost to you ever...£310.

[Hunter779]

Thank you for your reply.

 

I don't understand what you mean by backroom braincell, could you clarify?

 

Yes it would cause me exceptional hardship to leave sooner, but the judge has ordered I should leave within 4 weeks.

 

Quick question, so if I didn't leave by the date stated in the possession order, how much time would I have from that date before bailiffs would arrive to evict me?

 

So to apply for a set-aside, what exactly would I need to do? Is that an N244?

 

I contacted the court before the 5 December hearing to advise that I was unable to attend on health grounds and the court told me that I could file an N244 anytime up until the time of the hearing to request adjournment.

[dx100uk]

31 minutes ago, Hunter779 said:

I don't understand what you mean by backroom braincell, could you clarify?

i wrongly advised...you cant use N244/N245 on a CTAX LO sent to bailiffs.....

 

32 minutes ago, Hunter779 said:

Quick question, so if I didn't leave by the date stated in the possession order, how much time would I have from that date before bailiffs would arrive to evict me?

we dont know, depend upon your landlord. we don't possess an XTAL ball that cal look into the futrure ...

however shelter state:

Can private tenants stop the bailiffs - Shelter England

ENGLAND.SHELTER.ORG.UK

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A court may not be able stop the eviction of a private tenant, but it can sometimes agree to delay the eviction

 

37 minutes ago, Hunter779 said:

So to apply for a set-aside, what exactly would I need to do? Is that an N244?

YES

 

 

[Hunter779]

 

Quote

i wrongly advised...you cant use N244/N245 on a CTAX LO sent to bailiffs.....

It's not your fault - I cannot remember which thread I was reading about N245, but that probably wasn't relating to a council debt anyway and I am just confused.

 

What would be the worst case scenario, if I didn't leave and the claimants applied for immediate bailiff removal -

 

What is the minimum time I would have, beyond the date on the court order to leave before bailiff arrival?

 

I would very appreciate any help and guidance with N244 application to stop or delay this and any help with properly drafting my supporting documents.

 

Should I start a new thread for this in the possession section, or just continue here?

[dx100uk]

no stay here.. i'll move and retitle later.

 

dx

[Hunter779]

Ok will do, thank you.

 

I am just having a think about how best to provide you with more detailed information, rather than dribs & drabs, which might be even more confusing..

 

I am unable to upload all of the court documents as there is just too much and I have no way of easily sharing the papers.

 

I hope somebody could possibly help with completing N244 form and any supporting documents?

 

Please could you advise, the date to leave property on the court order is 6 January.

 

Is that the earliest date the bailiffs could remove me from the property, or how long would it take after that for the claimant to apply for bailiff removal?

 

I really need to know. 

 

So 14 days to appeal - The court hearing was on 5 December, I received copy of order today 8 December.

Does that mean I would have to send N244 to the court on or before 22 December?

Is there a specific day and time deadline?

 

What would I need to apply for exactly?

Is it an appeal?

A suspension?

A Set-aside?

Or to dismiss / strike out the claim?

 

Please could somebody help?

 

Is there any specific information you would need to be able to help draft any supporting document / witness statement / or revision of defence etc?

 

The judge also made a costs order against me.

 

Do you think there is a reasonable chance I could succeed in stopping or delaying the eviction?

 

I would very much appreciate if you could possibly help me win and would also like to claim damages from the claimant.

 

Would I have to file all of my evidence in relation to my defence and any counterclaim at the same time as the N244? Such as CCTV, photos, emails, medical evidence, witness statement, revised defence? Or could I file that any later?

 

I could have some of it prepared to file within 14 days, but some of my evidence is reports from third parties, and I do not think that will be available in time.

[dx100uk]

i'm not really sure what you are thinking here and where you got the information or idea from that you can 'appeal' the repo judgement handed down.

 

as per the shelter link i posted earlier, which you seem to have not explored? this appears to say the ONLY way you can appeal is via an N244 because their section 21 notice was invalid  ...we've not seen it. so can't comment.

How to check a section 21 notice is valid - Shelter England - Shelter England

ENGLAND.SHELTER.ORG.UK

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Find out how to check if the section 21 eviction notice served by your landlord is valid. You can challenge an invalid notice in court and stop the...

 

shelter says:

• had a good reason for missing the court hearing

• would have had a good chance of persuading the court not to make the possession order if you had been there. 

the judge has already considered everything you previously sent and dismissed it  ...so that's all a no burger issue now.

 

as for forced eviction by HCEO bailiffs.

How to stop eviction by bailiffs - Shelter England

ENGLAND.SHELTER.ORG.UK

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Eviction by bailiffs can sometimes be stopped or delayed if tenants act quickly. See what you can do if your landlord is using bailiffs to evict you

 

Can private tenants stop the bailiffs - Shelter England

 

you seriously need to read the link and it's click blue links.

 

but just to be clear...

 

you can't counterclaim, you can't go for costs, CCTV, photos, emails, medical evidence, witness statement, are all now totally irrelevant.

 

my best advice to date is

Get help from Shelter - Shelter England

ENGLAND.SHELTER.ORG.UK

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Get expert housing advice from Shelter advisers 365 days a year – over the phone, web chat, local advice centres or on our website.

 

How to check a section 21 notice is valid - Shelter England - Shelter England

ENGLAND.SHELTER.ORG.UK

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Find out how to check if the section 21 eviction notice served by your landlord is valid. You can challenge an invalid notice in court and stop the...

 

 

 

end

 

 

 

[Hunter779]

Thank you for the links - I have read. 

 

Due to severe stress I cannot think straight and get so confused as well with court terminology. Such as does appeal and set-aside mean the same thing, or are they different things?

 

I still don't understand as you said in previous post that I can apply for a set-aside of the possession order using N244, but are you now saying I can't do that? Please could you clarify.

 

The judge hasn't considered properly, as all the judge has seen is my written defence, without any of the supporting evidence required to prove that the S21 is invalid. I do not believe the judge has properly or fairly taken into account my defence.

 

In addition the claimants introduced new allegations in their reply to my defence and due to not receiving copy of that until a few days before the hearing, there is no possible way that I could have had time to produce evidence against their statement.

 

My written defence was also not worded very well, or set out / presented properly, as a defence should be, because I had no help to draft it properly. The same with the N244 application I made asking for extension of time would have probably been successful if it had been written properly.

 

I do believe I have grounds for the possession claim to be dismissed/struck out/cancelled. The S21 was invalid as copy of right to rent document was not provided and I was served S21 on unlawful grounds of disability discrimination. 

 

The rent arrears have accrued solely as a direct result of their actions. Regardless of them not claiming the rent arrears, I do believe I still have a right to counterclaim for return of my deposit, in addition to grounds for the possession claim to be struck out/dismissed. I also have health conditions and disability that is also grounds to dismiss the claim.

 

I also believe I have a very valid claim for compensation for distress caused and also various damages and financial losses, such as loss of income as a direct result of their actions.

 

In addition the landlords are farmers and after I was served with S21 they not only unlawfully trespassed to threaten and intimidate me on the same evening of the day I was served notice, they also deliberately sprayed a high volume of commercial pesticides directly on myself and my pets. This is recorded on CCTV. My pets and myself suffered injuries from this, including breathing difficulties and my pets had chemical burns to their eyes. 

I haven't had enough time to prepare and present my evidence properly for any of the above in time for the hearing, due to ill health, and I don't think that has been taken into account properly by the judge.

 

I shouldn't have to pay their costs, as they have caused this situation themselves and could have resolved without it ever going to court. 

 

[honeybee13]

To answer a couple of your questions while dx catches up with life.

 

I think what he means about the set-aside is that it's possible - if the s21 was invalid. We don't know whether it was valid or not, but I imagine you do.

 

For more information on set-aside, click on the word in your post or mine and you go to another page with more information.

 

HB

 

[Hunter779]

Great - Thank you. Would you possibly be able to help me with the N244 application to set-aside?

 

On one of the side issues regarding the HCEO debt (DCBL) - Following the home visit from their HCEO on Monday, I sent them another formal complaint via email, as the HCEO was acting aggressively and amongst other things was shouting at my security camera, demanding I speak to him, early in the morning, also disturbing neighbours. 

 

An update - I have received an email from them today, in which they refer to my previous 1st complaint again falsely claiming that I allegedly made "several threats to life" during my past telephone conversation with them, claiming they had every right to send the police to my address for an emergency welfare check, which is absolutely false. 

 

They go on to threaten that if I do not send them medical evidence within 7 days, they will continue their enforcement against me. 

 

I would prefer not to engage with them at all - Should I ignore this, or send them a current fit note from my GP. I do not want to deal with them visiting the address again to potentially clamp my car, or bang on my doors, as I cannot cope with alot more.

 

I am concerned that if I send them a fit note (which is all I have currently as written medical evidence) this will then escalate and they might then demand more communications, or more evidence, and I really do not wish to deal with them at all. What should I do?

 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

8 hours ago, Hunter779 said:

Great - Thank you. Would you possibly be able to help me with the N244 application to set-aside?

 

as i said earlier:

 

23 hours ago, dx100uk said:

the ONLY way you can appeal is via an N244 because their section 21 notice was invalid  

scan up their section 21 notice please read upload guide

 

you need evidence the section 21 was invalid.

 

21 hours ago, Hunter779 said:

The judge hasn't considered properly, as all the judge has seen is my written defence, without any of the supporting evidence required to prove that the S21 is invalid. I do not believe the judge has properly or fairly taken into account my defence.

how do you know the judge dismissed your supporting evidence? a conclusion has been handed down.

 

as for dcbl yes give them what they want.

 

dx

 

 

 

[Hunter779]

8 hours ago, dx100uk said:

 

as i said earlier:

 

scan up their section 21 notice please read upload guide

 

you need evidence the section 21 was invalid.

As I said in earlier post, I am unable to scan documents as I do not have any facility to do that. As far as I am aware there is nothing within the actual S21 notice printed document that would act as evidence to show that it was invalid. Is there any specific section/clause of the S21 notice you need to see? I can check and tell you exactly what a specific clause says, if that's what you need? The evidence to prove the S21 is invalid is contained within my written defence, and other evidence.

 

 

8 hours ago, dx100uk said:

how do you know the judge dismissed your supporting evidence? a conclusion has been handed down.

Because the only evidence the judge has so far seen is my written defence. I have not yet been able to produce my other various evidence to the judge in time for the hearing. In my N244 application I asked for adjournment of the hearing and extension of time in order to prepare and file my evidence in support of my defence and to also be able to respond and address the claimants new allegations, which were only presented to the court a few days before the hearing. In the possession order the judge made in my absence,  judge states that they have reviewed all evidence from both parties, including my N244 asking for extension of time to prepare and file all of my evidence.  

as for dcbl yes give them what they want.

Ok I will give them what they've asked for. 

dx

 

I really need to send N244 to the court as quickly as possible. I am not in a position to submit all of my evidence at the same time as the N244 within 14 days, but I could send some of my available supporting evidence? Ideally I would like a new hearing to be set, so that I can have time to prepare and present all of my evidence. Should I also request a copy of hearing transcript, as I was not present at the hearing?

 

8 hours ago, dx100uk said:

 

 

[honeybee13]

If you have a phone, you can take a photo of the s21 and upload it here.

 

HB

[Hunter779]

I do not have a functioning camera on my phone. I have no ability to scan and share documents. 

 

 

[honeybee13]

So perhaps you could type up what the landlord has said on the s21 form please?

 

HB

[Hunter779]

Not really no, as its several pages of text. It's just a standard S21 notice stating that it is a no fault eviction.

 

I am sorry, but there are hundreds of pages of papers relating to this claim and I have no possible way of scanning and uploading documents for you. By the time I figure out a way I could somehow scan and share everything with you, I might have bailiffs at the door to evict me by that time.

 

All I can do is try to explain to you as best I can

 

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Hunter779

[honeybee13]

It's not ideal when you're pushing for urgent advice but let's see what dx thinks: What date is on the s21 please?

 

Does that mean you don't disagree with anything that's on the s21 form?

 

Another question please. If you've already submitted an N244, why are you submitting another one?

 

HB

 

[Ethel Street]

Do you have friends or family nearby who own a phone with a camera? Maybe they could photograph and upload for you?

[Hunter779]

9 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

It's not ideal when you're pushing for urgent advice but let's see what dx thinks: What date is on the s21 please?

As said in earlier post it was served in May. 

Does that mean you don't disagree with anything that's on the s21 form?

In the S21 notice, the claimant does not admit any wrongdoing, or that they are evicting me unlawfully. It just states a no fault eviction. Is there any specific reason you would need to see the S21 notice?

Another question please. If you've already submitted an N244, why are you submitting another one?

I thought have already explained this in previous posts. The other N244 was sent before the possession order was made. 

HB

 

 

5 minutes ago, Ethel Street said:

Do you have friends or family nearby who own a phone with a camera? Maybe they could photograph and upload for you?

No I don't

[honeybee13]

Thank you for the information. I'm sorry to ask but we don't know your case as well as you do and on't have time to go through nearly 70 posts looking for information that you can tell us quickly.

 

HB

[unclebulgaria67]

Shelter Housing have online chat option. See if you can organise for them to get their local office to help you.

 

Get help from Shelter - Shelter England

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Get expert housing advice from Shelter advisers 365 days a year – over the phone, web chat, local advice centres or on our website.

 

[Hunter779]

5 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

Thank you for the information. I'm sorry to ask but we don't know your case as well as you do and on't have time to go through nearly 70 posts looking for information that you can tell us quickly.

 

HB

I am sorry, I do realise that and am trying to explain the best I can. Happy to answer any questions. 

[Hunter779]

Should I apply for a copy of the possession hearing transcript, as I was not present at the hearing?

 

When submitting an N244 application to set-aside, would I be required to send all of my supporting evidence at the same time as the N244 application, or would another hearing be granted to allow more time to file all of my evidence?

[honeybee13]

If this is similar to other court hearings, transcripts are expensive and can take time.

 

Is your evidence ready to submit? You've had since May.

 

HB

[Hunter779]

I think I should apply for the transcript, to establish grounds of appeal as I was not present at hearing. I would be applying for help with fees.

 

No it isn't.

As said in earlier posts, I have some of the supporting evidence available, but not all of it.

 

Due to ill health I have been unable to prepare and present all of my supporting evidence. Also, some of that evidence is from third parties and is not yet available.

 

there is no possible way I would have been able to produce evidence against the claimants statement, as I did not receive copy of that until a few days before the hearing.

 

I also would like to amend my previous written defence.