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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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UKPCL ANPR PCN claimform - overstay - MCDONALDS· WAKEFIELD 2 569, DEWSBURY ROAD WAKEFIELD WF2 9BY ***Claim Discontinued***


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Hi, 

I have just received a parking offence through the post from McDonalds.

On the 17th April 2022 I was parked in McDonalds from 09:32:28 until 11:52:30 a time of 2 hours 20 minutes.

The car park was relatively empty the whole time.

I was parked there, because after a large night out the night before, I took 2 of my girl mates to maccies.

They were extremely hungover, and we were literally eating McDonalds / in maccies.

We bought food multiple times over the time period. 

 

I have received a £50 parking offence as apparently, the maximum time you are allowed to be parked in Maccies for is 1 hour 30 minutes.

I have never heard of such rubbish.

The charge is from UKPC (UK Parking Control Ltd) 

 

How do I fight this?

I wouldn't mind if I was just parked there and gone elsewhere, but we were literally in the McDonalds, buying food repeatedly. 

Happy to provide any and all information required. 

Thanks, 

Ryan 

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It isn't a fine, it's just an invoice.

 

Unless they have used the word 'fine' on their invoice?

 

Ignore UKPC for the moment, and get in touch with Maccies and have them cancel the ticket.

 

Don't get fobbed off with ''it's nothing to do with us, we can't cancel these tickets'' absolute rubbish, they can and they do cancel these tickets because they lose customers otherwise.

 

Can you scan it up but ensure you redact ALL identifiers, VRN Ref No's etc and fill this in please.

 

Edited by Bazooka Boo
  • Like 1

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Hi @Bazooka Boo, Thanks for the response. It doesn't use the word "fine" but does use the phrase "parking charge". 

I've called the maccies multiple times, but they do not answer the phone.. it's one quite a long way away from me, so not one I can go to, to chat to the manager either. 

I will keep trying to get through, but if that consistently fails, what's the next steps? 

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Try emailing them also, fill out the sticky so others can advise you later.

 

DO NOT appeal or correspond with UKPC, the ONLY time you need do anything is ''IF'' they send you a claim form,

 

But this will do the usual rounds of powerless DCA's before they even look at claim forms.

 

 

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to UKPCL ANPR PCN - overstay -

If you get no luck with the local branch then e-mail the CEO  https://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-8918

 

Obviously include proof of purchase and lay it on thick that you "overstayed" as you were spending a load of money in McDonalds, which is surely what they want!

 

And as Bazooka Boo has already asked, please fill in the sticky, we may well have threads on this car park and there is likely to be a lot wrong legally with the fleecers' paperwork.

We could do with some help from you.

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The CEO of McDonald's is below

 

[email protected]

He certainly has the power to quash the ticket. Just explain to say how much you were enjoying your time there and how much you all spent as well as saying that you are quite often visitors to McDonalds. 

 

It would have helped had you posted up the questions above which would have included the PCN itself. Quite often they are not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act. In fact you would be better to wait until we have seen the PCN and the actual time you were over the time limit as you could use that for additional ammunition to put and end to the PCN.

 

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please complete this:

 

 

 

can we have the reverse of the letter too please

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yes you can write to the CEO now.

 

The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of  Freedoms  Act 2012. The wording is wrong for a start.  Under Schedule 4 section 9 [2][f] it states 

"(f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and

(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;"

 

That is not quite what the PCN says but in any event all the applicable conditions have not been met.

 

The PCN has to publish the period of parking within which the alleged breach occurred. Instead UKPC have used the arrival and departure times taken from the cameras. This is not the period of parking as obviously it takes time and includes driving from the entrance, finding a parking space and then actually parking, which is then followed by moving the car out of the parking space and making way to the exit.

 

On busy times, or if some occupants of the car are children requiring removal and replacing seat belts and some disabled may have wheel chairs to take out the car and replace them later, all adds to the time which is required to be called the parking period. So by taking that time away from the PCN quoted time and a ten minute grace period as a minimum that twenty minutes can be eaten up so no breach occurred.

 

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  • 2 months later...

Hi, 

I have tried the branch at the time and they were no use; they just kept saying there was nothing they could do, it was clear I was not going to get anywhere with them. 

I have today received another letter - attached - dated for 18th July with a threat to transfer to solicitors if I don't pay £170. (I have also received other letters demanding £170 which I have just ignored, I can provide them too if needed). 

I also today emailed Alistair on that email provided above (McD CEO) but it hit a delivery master failure issue and wouldn't send. 

I also looked at filling out the sticky, but it seems excessively complicated and the thread is blocked for replies, I havent done that. 

Please advise on what next steps I should take, 

Thanks, 

Ryan 

Update - I tried the other link for emailing the CEO, note the CEO email is [email protected] (not .co.uk) 

However, he is out of office until August 9th. 

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I doubt very much that no-one will check the e-mails of the CEO of McDonald's until 9 August!

 

I'm bemused as to why you e-mailed him today rather than nearly three months ago when we gave you the address.

 

As for the fleecers' threats - they haven't sent a Letter of Claim so you can ignore their bluster.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

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I also looked at filling out the sticky, but it seems excessively complicated and the thread is blocked for replies, so I havent done that. 

 

The sticky says to copy and paste the questions into your thread [this one] and to add your answers in red. If you take it slowly, it's not that hard to fill in. This is important information for us, so please give it a go.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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The Mc Donalds email address is working fine . Are you sure you copied it correctly?

Their £170 is an unlawful amount and no Judge will allow it.

The maximum is £100.

On top of that this company has been banned by DVLA in the past for falsifying photographic evidence.

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Hi @lookinforinfo 

The email is .com rather than .co.uk - I got through eventually.

However I got a response from customer services (rather than the CEO) - see below: 

Quote

Michael Kelly (McDonald’s Customer Services)

25 Jul 2022, 11:24 BST

Dear Ryan,
 
I am writing further to your email which has been passed for my attention regarding your visit to our Charlton restaurant. I have noted your comments and welcome the opportunity to confirm our policy on this matter.
 
As a company, putting in place enforcements within our car parks is only done after careful consideration and very much as a last resort. Primarily, we use parking measures to ensure there are spaces available for our customers’ vehicles, as well as to deter unwarranted or unreasonably prolonged usage of the facility.
 
I can confirm this parking area is managed by an independent company who are responsible for monitoring the car park and taking details of registration numbers. The regulations and signs at the restaurant clearly state the policy and the relevant charges.
 
I trust you will appreciate that in order to maintain a consistent approach; we have to adhere to the guidelines in place regardless of whether you were in the restaurant for the duration of the stay or not. As such, in a situation such as a clear contravention of parking regulations, we are unable to deal with any specifics or cases on an individual basis. Suffice to say, if a customer contravenes the clearly displayed parking regulations, they will receive a ticket.
 
Thank you for contacting us and again for the opportunity to comment and if you do wish to pursue the matter, this will need to be done by following the appeals process outlined on the parking ticket.
 
Kind regards,

Michael Kelly
Senior Customer Services Manager
Customer Services Team

McDonald's UK Customer Services
11 - 59 High Road
East Finchley
London
N2 8AW

 

@honeybee13 I will look again at the sticky and try to get it filled out. 

@lookinforinfo and @FTMDave while it's not valid, I don't want to keep receiving threatening letters

- how do you advise I get them to just go away... or is it literally a case of constantly ignoring them?

If they send a claim form, what happens then?

The most recent letter does say that they are passing the case to solicitors, which upon googling are legit / do have the power to take people to court apparently? 

What do you advise, 

Thanks, 

Ryan 

 

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Letter of claim first..

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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That's a disgraceful reply from McDonald's.  However, it was worth a try.

 

You can't magically stop UKPC from writing to you (unless you give in).

 

However, as dx says, unless/until they send you a Letter of Claim it's all hot air from paper tigers.

 

Come back here if a LoC arrives.

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi 

What is the likelihood I should receive a letter of claim, and once received, will I need any documentation?

If so, I'd like to start preparing this in advance so I'm not under time pressure.

I did read the LoC thread you linked above, and noticed you said for PCNs if a LoC is received, then ask for a suitable snotty letter - is that then the end of the process? (Do you have a good example of similar forum/situation you know of)

I'd also like to know, can this actually result in having to go to court to settle this? 

Thanks, 

Ryan

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I'm sorry to say that your questions indicate that you haven't really read any other threads apart from your own. It's only by reading up that you'll understand how the private parking industry functions.

 

If you get a letter before claim, sending a snotty letter is a way to let them know you'll be trouble if it goes to court. But it doesn't always work and we've seen plenty of claimforms here after a snotty letter has been sent.

 

We'd like to prepare as well so please could you have another try with the initial information I asked for a few days ago

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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1 Date of the infringement 17/04/2022

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] Not sure what "NTK" is, but "Parking Charge Date" : 22/04/2022
 

3 Date received Letter received: 22/05/2022
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] No, don't think so
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? There is a photo of my vehicle leaving the car park.
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No, I have not responded to it. I have emailed McDonalds; response to that is in thread above. 
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up n/a
 

7 Who is the parking company? McDonalds car park; ticket is from UK Parking Control LTD (UKPC) 

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] McDonalds - Wakefield 2 - 569 - McDonalds Carpark, Dewsbury Road, Wakefield, WF2 9BY
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

Parking on Private Land Appeals (POPLA

 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS.

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

  • "Final Warning" letter from ZZPS requesting £170 dated 20/06/2022
  • "Notice of transfer to solicitors" letter from GCTTCertificated Enforcements Agents dated 18/07/2022

 

Date of infringement - 17/04/22

Date of PCN - 22/04/22

Date of Notification Letter - 22/05/22

Date of Debt Collection Notice Letter - 06/06/22

Date of Final Warning Letter - 20/06/22

Date of Transfer to Solicitors Letter - 18/07/22

 

All PDFs here: 

 

All Pdf.pdf

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thread tidied

so no letter of claim yet.

sit on your hands

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to UKPCL ANPR PCN - overstay - MCDONALDS· WAKEFIELD 2 569, DEWSBURY ROAD WAKEFIELD WF2 9BY
  • 2 weeks later...

Its actually from zzps using a letter head, same printer as the last one.

 

obv not a letter of claim.

go read a few like threads wirh your players.

 

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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no and i wont be recommending what toilet paper to use nor how too either.

enough nurse maiding already.

 

cag is predominantly self help.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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