Lowell/Overdales Claimform - old Lloyds TSB loan facilitated by Loans Direct debt subject to existing 2009 CCJ ***Claim Discontinued***

[AndyOrch]

No the defence above is totally unsuitable for a claim for a debt which has already been adjudged. You cant get a CCJ twice for the same debt...Res Judicata would apply here and a defence would have to be specifically drafted to challenge the claim .....with or without evidence if you cant confirm details of the judgment.....if drfated the correct way.

[j70han]

OK, just searched new and old address (uk wide) and both records state I'm  completely clear of any judgements/orders. Never thought I'd be disappointed in that. 

 

 I’ve googled what Res Judicata is,  and read some points on how you prove Re Judicata, obviously briefly, so i may have got this wrong.

 

But, as i have no paperwork or documentation to show this has gone to court, my defence would reply on my own recollection and statement of a previous CCJ.

 

I would then hope that the bank still hold details of this CCJ and have not removed documents relating to the original ccj because of DPA, when they archived my records. 

 

I guess the fact the bank closed this loan account in 2008 might add some weight, but could this backfire on me. 

 

Through RJ, could i inadvertently admit to the debt, bit fail to prove RJ through the court.  I appreciate these are what ifs.

 

Are there any threads you could refer to where I could formulate a RJ defence.  I only have a few days left now. 

 

Many thanks for any help you can give. 

[AndyOrch]

Have you checked the Land Registry ? Was the CCJ at the old or new address (2009) ...when did you change address?

 

 

 

.

[j70han]

Yes, went in and paid £20 for two reports from  registry-trust ,

 

One at my old address and one at my new address. I changed address in May 2020. 

 

Unless I picked the wrong report. But it covered whole of the UK and all judgement. 

 

Summary report was green with no records found at either address.

 

I've checked the site again and it doesn't really offer old CCJ info from what I can tell.

 

The ccj was in 2009 and was at my old address.

 

I've seen a land reg check at my old address in the last few years and it's not registered there.

 

Would a CCJ be registered with Land Reg?   It was never set as a charge against my property.

 

 

[AndyOrch]

Well it wont show anything they fall away after 6 years.....hence my post #9 to request specifically information on historic archive.

 

So what about the Land Registry with regards to your old property and to see if a charge was placed on your deeds ?

[j70han]

No charge was ever placed against my previous address, as I wasn't on the deeds at the time of the ccj.

[AndyOrch]

Fair enough simply a process of elimination ...and you are absolutely sure that this debt has already been subject to litigation and it resulted in a default judgment. 

 

I can draft you a Res Judicata defence but just need to sure up the time frame.

The CCJ you think was issued around ?  Its no longer showing on your credit files which would indicate its older than 6 years.

 

Quote

I do recall defaulting in  2008/09 and recall it dropping off my credit file approx Oct 2015.

 

The above is not real guidance as to the claim date or judgment date...unfortunately. 

[j70han]

Hi Andyorch, 

 

Yes, so from memory and I believe it's pretty accurate, I started to fall into debt with all creditors in 2007/08 and then received defaults on most accounts in 2008 with one creditor "Lloyds" taking a CCJ out against a personal loan account in 2009. 

 

I recall the CCJ falling from my credit record in 2015 and think it was October that year. 

 

Lloyds advised me that they closed the loan account in August 2008, but i'm pretty sure this loan was subject to a CCJ and possibly via Lloyds arrears dept. 

 

Despite my mountain of debt at the time, it was the only creditor who took out a CCJ against me and my one and only CCJ ever,  which is why I recall it. 

 

What confuses me now, thinking about it, is that Lowell claim to have taken over the debt from Lloyds in June 2018, yet I made payments to Lowell for this debt up until July 2017. 

 

I've gone back and checked my bank statements.   So, I'm just wondering if Lloyds could have accidently sold the debt twice to Lowell? 

 

I'd really appreciate a draft of a Res Judicata,   I've been reading up on it .. but think it's a little out of my ability level to fully write a defence. 

 

Many thanks for your advice and help with this. 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by dx100uk
Spacing

[AndyOrch]

Around that period Lloyds were litigating direct rather than assigning debt through a DCA. Their favored Solicitors that dealt with court claims were SCM based in Sussex....not sure if that rings any bells ?

 

Quote

What confuses me now, thinking about it, is that Lowell claim to have taken over the debt from Lloyds in June 2018, yet I made payments to Lowell for this debt up until July 2017.  I've gone back and checked my bank statements

 

What date did the payments start and how much have you paid them ? ...what was the reference of payment in connection to with Lowell ?

 

 

 

.

[AndyOrch]

https://www.talkaboutdebt.co.uk/debt-collection-directory/sechiari-clark-and-mitchell-solicitors/

 

[j70han]

Hi,

 

No, never heard of SCM and my bank records show no payments going to them. 

 

 I just came to an agreement to pay a number of creditors at the time to get them off my back around 2011/12, 

 

 I then decided to just stop paying  in 2017 to see what happened and get the occasional letter following up credit cards etc. But nothing worrying and just asking me to contact  them etc. 

 

But lowells seem to have been a bit more aggressive in the last 2 months,  possibly because I've managed to restore my credit record and get a mortgage, so they may think I've got money to pay them.

 

There is no reference associated to the DD payment going to Lowell, but I know that this was for the lloyds loan. 

 

 I will chase my bank up today to see if they can give me a ref associated to the DD. And let you know ASAP.

 

Sorry, I've not got much to go on, which is my concern. I'd  not heard from this loan in years and assumed, as it had a ccj, they couldn't do anything.

 

I'm kicking myself now for not keeping the records, which I probably destroyed when moved in 2020. 

 

Per my calculations, I've only got the next day or so to file my defence, as the N9 was dated 01/02/2022.  I filed my "defend all" on 7 Feb 22.  

 

Many thanks for helping with this. 

 

Sorry just seen the link re SCM.. interesting. It could be possible, although I don't recollect dealing with them. But at that time I wasn't opening post etc... 

[AndyOrch]

Your deadline is Friday 4th March by 4.00pm. If you could get any information re DD that would be helpful because if we are to submit Res Judicata we have to build a credible history which reflects that a CCJ was attained in or around 2010.It wont be for the claimant to prove that there wasn't a judgment but for you to prove there was.

 

I have a nagging feeling that Lowells were not litigating on LLoyds debts around that time...that is what concerns me.

Find out what you were paying Lowell's for...this is imperative....even if you have to ring them.

[dx100uk]

Agreed .Almost 100% would have been scm for Lloyds as the claimant.

 

Dx

[j70han]

OK thanks. 

 

ok, I'm going through emails and have found a document dated Nov 2011 where I declared that I was paying £30 per month against a lloyds loan which had a ccj registered against it.  Would a redacted version of this be useful? 

[dx100uk]

Declared To whom?

[AndyOrch]

Quote

Would a redacted version of this be useful? 

 

Absolutely 

[j70han]

Sorry, should have made it clearer,.   I had to declared my financial difficulties to my employer at the time due to security vetting requirements.  So it that document

[AndyOrch]

Only there is anything in regards to this debt and a CCJ mentioned in the document.

[j70han]

Yes, I declare I have a Lloyds loan of approx. £7,900 which I pay £30 per month for and it is subject to a CCJ. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by j70han

[AndyOrch]

Okay so now work out a figure of paid amount from x date to last payment when you stopped.

[j70han]

Yes, that's a point to... If I owed approx £7,900 in Nov 2011 and was paying £30 per month for more than 6 years... where do they get the figures of £8100 from. I'd of at least paid over £2k...   

 

 

[dx100uk]

 Me thinks your payments to Lowell's were for a totally diff debt, how do you know its was for a 'loan'?.

 

You'd have to check letter ref numbers and theirs of recent to see if they match up .? With old stuff?

 

There is also this sold twice issue by Lloyds.. can't see that myself  ..

 

Dx

 

 

[AndyOrch]

On 28/02/2022 at 21:40, j70han said:

3.The debt was legally assigned to us on 29/06/2018, notice of which has been given to the defendant. 

 

I wonder who assigned it to them ?  " under an agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 for a Lloyds banking group account with the reference XXXXXX "

[AndyOrch]

Just some posts from the original topic for easy reference.

 

No, Lloyds obtained a CCJ then seemed to just leave it.  I was never ordered by the court to pay anything.  I voluntarily agreed to pay £15 per month via telephone call.  

 

 

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[AndyOrch]

Fully agree with my collogue DX im not convinced....still a simple way to resolve this as I have already suggested is to ring them....tell them your currently dealing with their claim form and wish to enquire about the other debt you were paying up until 03/07/2013. Is this the same debt ask the reference number of the old.

 

Im sure they will be helpful then we know what we are dealing with and can prepare the correct type of defence. If we submit a res judicata there is no changing it or going back to amend so we have to be certain this Debt has already been adjudged.