Premier Vanishing Windscreen PCN now letter of claim - 20mins overstay - Charleston Pay and Display , Charleston, Cornwall. PL25 3NJ

[james2222]

1 Date of the infringement 8 December 2021
 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 10 December 202

 

3 Date received 16 December 2021
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Yes
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes, photo of parking ticket through windscreen and of the full car in a parking bay 
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No
 

7.Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up  Not applicable ... have not appealed
 

7 Who is the parking company? Premier Parking

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Charleston Pay and Display , Charleston, Cornwall.  PL25 3NJ
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. Appeals to Premier Parking ... then Parking on Private lands Appeal (POPLA) if first appeal unsuccessful
 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure, They have BPA membership shown on their letter

 

 

Hello

Received a Parking Charge Notice from Premier Parking in post yesterday (16th December)!

 

Was in a Pay and Display car Park in Charleston, Cornwall ... paid for one hour as only expected to need to park for maximum of 45 mins but ended up getting delayed

and returned to my car back 20 mins later than ticket time. 

No penalty ticket or notification was left on my car at the time.

 

About 10 cars in car park .... with spaces for hundreds!

Charge of £100 now being demanded ... but ONLY!!!  £60 if paid in 29days.

 

I suppose I'll have to pay up but if anyone can suggest an alternative route to avoid me paying these robbers the absurd charge of £60 for 20mins of excess parking, then I'd love to hear.

 

 

 

2021-12-10 Premier PCN.pdf

[dx100uk]

as usual premier have stuff up royally

if you go back to our sticky and read, for NON ANPR capture they should not be sending that letter till after day 29, and the operator should have issued a windscreen ticket.

 

as it stands this is a classic vanishing windscreen pcn trick and can safely be totally ignored until/unless you ever get a letter of claim.

 

most probably the pictures were taken by someone that gets a backhander for dobbing in drivers and is not an employee of premier so can't issue tickets.

 

we will need page 2 of the PCN as the guide says please to ensure if/if not it is POFA2012 compliant.

 

dx

 

[james2222]

Hello

Thank you DX100UK for your prompt response to my initial posting.  It was much appreciated.

As requested I have attached a pdf of the reverse of the Parking Charge Notice.

 

Having read a number of other posts on similar parking issues, am I correct in assuming the following.

1. I ignore any further threatening letters or letters trying to intimidate me with, ''the costs are increasing".

 

2. I do nothing unless a letter before action arrives.

 

3. If a LBA arrives I'll post up here and seek further advice.

 

It really is reassuring that DX and his colleagues are prepared to offer their valued advice.  My commitment is that if this Premier Park  rip-off  fizzles out as hoped ... my Parking Charge will transform in to a contribution to this site.

 

 

 

 

2021-12-10 Premier PCN.pdf

[dx100uk]

You correct on1/2/3...

 

Dx

[lookinforinfo]

The NTK is not compliant with PoFA.

First there is no time period mentioned. Just the time the picture was taken is insufficient. The legislation requires that there should be a start time and an end time for the breach.

Second  in Schedule 4 s9 2[f] the time should state 28 days but this one states 29 days but then states at the end that if payment isn't made within  28 days debt recovery may begin. So one day too much at 29 then one day short at 28.

[james2222]

Hello

Have received lots of 'Pay Now' letters from Premier parking (I overstayed 30 mins in empty car park) since December last year.

 

I received this last one just a few weeks ago and reading this again, I wonder if the bit that says, "if you do not make contact within 7 days we will assume you have chosen to ignore this letter and legal recovery actions will begin", constitutes a 'Letter before action'.  Copy of letter attached.

Any advice welcomed.

 

DR+ Letter re unpaid PCN to premeir.pdf

[dx100uk]

No it doesn't

 

Please complete our have your received a parking ticket sticky on this forums home page where you created your thread too.

 

Dx

[james2222]

Thank you Dx100uk

 

 my latest message was a follow-on from my initial thread, started 17th December last year ... where I completed the 'Have you received a ticket' form.

My apologies.  

 

 I assume from your reply, I just continue to 'sit tight'.

 

I still find it amazing that a 50p 'overstay' (difference in purchasing a 1hr vs 2 hr ticket) can be 'escalated' by them to a charge of £170 .... with the threat of it going to £235!!!

 

If the law allows that, then I'm afraid my confidence in the law is definitely on the downwards track.   

Regards

James

 

[FTMDave]

Threads merged.

 

Don't worry.  An uninterested third party with no power to do anything has written to your pretending that the debt has increased to five million pounds.  Laugh at them & ignore.

[lookinforinfo]

Not only Premier but all the other parking companies that are wildly overcharging on their PCNs are about to get  a shock when they get to Court.

 

The maximum they can now charge for is £100 no matter how they try to lie and scheme to increase their charges.

 

Small comfort perhaps for you when all that was initially at stake was 50p.

 

Perhaps it is better to overpay on your expected time in car parks even if it is for a pound or slightly more.Far better that than to go through threats of costs into the hundreds not to mention the stresses involved.

[dx100uk]

Open 

 

Dx

[james2222]

Hello

After a long silence, I have received today (6 October 2022) a Letter before Action from Gladstones Solicitors on behalf of Premier Park.  Took 8 days to get to me!!

Letter is redacted and posted below.

Their last threatening letter to 'Pay up or else' was received way back on 9th May 2022!

I have read other posts on similar topics, so I am wondering, is it recommended to send a 'Snotty Letter'. 

They mention 'Pre-Action Protocol' ... do I have to follow this?

Regards

James

 

 

2022-09-28 Gladstones LOC.pdf

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

Yes, it's snotty letter time. Have a look around the forum (or our Parking Successes forum for PCNs) for Premier Park and Gladstones threads, especially if they're about this car park. There should be other people's snotty letters for you to adapt for your case.

 

HB

[FTMDave]

Well done on reading up. 

 

Yep, you and HB are spot on - snotty letter time.

 

Pre-Action Protocol is their LBA and your snotty letter reply.

[brassnecked]

You don't have to be polite with a snotty letter just so long as you make sure you know and they know that you know their case is pants, but do not mention any reasons as to why, such as POFA  and copy it to Highview as well.

 

So Dear Will & John u

 

p to our old tricks are we pursuing a case I know and you know will lead to teras and woe for your client for various reasons we all know.

 

But better still search on snotty letters Gladstones, are some real brilliant one on here you could adapt.

[james2222]

Hello brassnecked

Thank you very much for your advice ... will follow it.

You suggested copying the response I'm going to make to Gladstones ... to 'Highview'.

Who / what is Highview please?

Regards

James

 

[brassnecked]

My bad sorry meant Premier Park, I had Highview in mind from another thread oops

[james2222]

Hello

My 'snotty' letter.

Do I need to add more (or take anything out)?

Comments welcomed.

Will send off today if all o.k. (I've obviously deleted my personal details just for this posting)

Regards

James

Gladstones response pdf letter PDF.pdf

[FTMDave]

Looks damn good to me.

 

Invest in two 2nd class stamps and get two free Certificates of Posting from the post office.

[FTMDave]

A couple of things.

 

In the PCN the fleecers show you paid till 15:07 in a photo and then state they observed the car at 15:26.  There doesn't seem to be much evidence for this.  On the top left-hand corner of the photos there is something written which I can't make out at this end.  Can you read these squiggles on the PCN you've got?  I'm just wondering if the photos are time-stamped or not.

 

Secondly, Gladstones have lied about the court costs as they lie in every Letter Before Claim.  If you want to go for extra snottiness you could add a paragraph -

 

For the sum of money in dispute the claim form fee is actually £25 and solicitors' costs are capped at £50.  As a layperson I've been able to look this up.  So either you can't do primary-school level mathematics or else you've been rather naughty in pretending costs are much higher than they really are to try to get me to panic.  Either way epic fail.  SRA to be informed ASAP.

[brassnecked]

Great letter add FTMDave's amendments and thats good to go.

[james2222]

Many thanks brassnecked and FTMDave for your helpful comments.

Further to FTM's comments about the time stamps, (well spotted!) I have had a good look at the photo on the original claim letter they sent me, and the time stamp is indeed showing the time to be some 6 mins earlier than the time they claim I overstayed till.

Yet another discrepancy in their case!

[brassnecked]

That Timestamp can be used against them if Premier Park decide they want to risk being Gladstoned in court but its not something to mention until or if a claimform arrives.

[FTMDave]

Right, so a 19-minure overstay has now become a 13-minute overstay.

 

Both the government and the BPA's codes of practice allow a 10-minute grace period at the end.

 

So essentially they are after you for staying 3 minutes longer than you should have!

 

 

[lookinforinfo]

I cannot read the times on the photographs on your car. What times are they showing and what is the upside down  card on your dash board.

Do they have any photos of the car entering and leaving the car park?