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    • I have received an email in the last 10 minutes 4) The Claimant's witness is currently out of the office on annual leave and this was not relayed to DWF Law until after the event which has caused a further unfortunate delay. 5) The Court has directed parties to file and serve any evidence upon which they intend to rely not later than 14- days before the hearing i.e. by 4pm on 6 June 2024. Regrettably, the Claimant will have insufficient time to finalise their witness evidence and supporting exhibits as directed. We therefore respectfully apply to extend the time for filing/serving evidence so that the evidence upon which the parties intend to rely by filed and served not later than 7-days before the hearing i.e. by 4pm on 13 June 2024  It also includes a "Notice of Hearing" stating that the application hearing will take place on 13th June at 10.00am.  Confused as to whether I need to attend this ?
    • I've received this notice to keeper. I work for the NHS and was delayed due to patient care. I park here regular and and have never had any issues. I've looked at the evidence on the portal and other than showing that i entered at 12.59.33 and departed at 17:14:14 it doesn't state how long i overstayed for. I paid for 4 hours parking over the phone which i wont have done till i got parked but as its over the phone i have no receipt or record but it is not possible for me to have been in excess of 15mins from the photos alone but I'm unsure having read other threads whether grace periods are 10 or 15 minutes. I havent appealed yet but and was about to but in appealing i'm showing i'm the driver which i gather is something you state we must never do. I don't like confrontation but £60 seems extortionate. Hope you can help. 🤞 1 Date of the infringement 30th May 2024 2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 30th May 2024 [scan up BOTH SIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide] please LEAVE IN LOCATION AND ALL DATES/TIMES/£'s 3 Date received 5th June 2024 4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] No reference to schedule 4 just says"...we the creditor reserve the right to recover unpaid parking charges from the registered keeper in accordance with POFA 2012." 5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes 6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up NA 7 Who is the parking company? Carpark securities 8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Northgate, Halifax Former Dews Car Park HX1 1XJ For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IAS There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure, please check HERE   Notice to Keeper.pdf
    • It never seems to amaze me how the chuckleheads think that No Stopping can ever offer a contract when it is prohibitory. In any case you did not accept the contract by entering the land, you entered the land to get to the airport for goodness sake. In most car parks there is a Consideration period that allows motorists to decide whether they want to stay in the car park . Here on a road, there is no consideration period and whether the motorist finds the terms agreeable or not even assuming that they are able to understand that they are being hoodwinked into believing they are being offered a  contract they cannot turn back. They have a plane to catch and even if they did turn back because they didn't accept the  No Stopping term of   the so called contract they would still have had to stop to turn around. Plus there is a question of Frustration of Contract. You had to stop at a pedestrian crossing .    
    • Just a couple paragraphs their WS that it might be useful to refer to specifically in the OP's WS... Para 6 A contract was formed with "the driver" of the vehicle. Para 8 "The driver" accepted the contract. (The "driver" is not named, or identified anywhere in the WS). Para 7 WHY would there ever be a "no stopping" restriction in a car park? (In Para 10, they specify that it is a "car park"). Para 11 "The Defendant" became liable." Again, they have not shown that the Defendant was "the driver", simply the keeper. Para 20 "It is a matter of agreement"? Not really sure what they're trying to say here...
    • Thank you for relying so quickly! That is what I had concluded was the reality of the situation.. I'm still waiting for the call within my time slot.. I will try to fill this thread with more info, find original letters and show the docs of the pack I was sent, a pack with no real covering letter to show what it was in response to or from whom..
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UKPC/DCB(L) Letter Of Claim - vanishing windscreen ticket - Progress Place, Liverpool, L1 6AF


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Hi all, I received a "Letter before Claim" letter recently from DCB Legal for £160 for a parking ticket issued by UKPC 4 years ago.

 

From other posts on here I'm led to believe that there is a high certainty that this will lead to a court claim being issued.

I've had to pay a solicitor twice previously to deal with county court claims that I had received in the past for consumer credit debt and I don't really want to go down this route again for such a low amount and would really appreciate some help from people here.

I first emailed DCB Legal and stated that I have no recollection of the alleged PCN and let them know I have requested a SAR from UKPC as the merits of their claim are vague with no evidence being supplied from them and there is no breakdown to the amount of £160 that they are requesting. I ended the email stating that I need more time to resolve the matter.

 

I then sent a SAR to both DCB and UKPC, UKPC responded a short time later with a zip file with a number of photos of the vehicle and signage (which is unreadable in the photos), 2 letters they sent demanding payment and what looks to be a reconstituted version of the original PCN.

DCB Legal look to have added £60 on top of the original PCN.

What would be the next step for me from here?

Thanks in advance.

 

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Hi

it could well be that they are considering court action. They probably feel that they didn't have a strong case to have left you alone for four years. We usually recommend a snotty letter to show them that you don't give a stuff about it and not going to be cowed by them.

 

But first could you please complete the questions below and include the PCN  and anything you have received from the sar. From that we can see if they have any chance and you won't need to use solicitors. 

 

In addition could you please post up verbatim their Letter before claim and can you complete it fairly soon since you only have a limited time to respond to it.

 

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Yes, please complete the forum sticky and upload all paperwork

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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scan up to one mass PDF all the letters in/out bothsides after redacting them of ALL your pers info or anything that THEY could use to ID you here.

 

read our upload guide carefully, its all there

 

remember ONE mass PDF only as well as doing the stick that ftmdave posted.

 

then we can move you fwd.

 

you do not need a solicitor!!

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Can you please put the times and dates back on all letters

We cant tell if things are compliant without them

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Apologies, I wasn't sure just how much identifying information to include, I've reuploaded with all dates and times as requested.

The date of infringement:

07/12/17


Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet?
No


Have you received a Notice To Keeper?
No, it went to a previous address however I have received the original via a SAR.


What date is on it?

09/01/18 and 07/02/18
 

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence?

Yes
 

Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA)?
Yes
 

Who is the parking company?
UKPC

 

Where exactly was the vehicle parked?

Progress Place, Liverpool, L1 6AF (it was an alleyway, not a carpark)

DCBL-min.pdf

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So yea old ukpc vanishing windscreen ticket act...

 

Ntk is in time 29-56 days

 

Doesn't mean nothing/nowt is wrong mind...

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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You need to send a snotty letter to show them you'd be big trouble if they did try court.

We could do with some help from you.

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Their NTK does not comply with PoFA so they cannot transfer the liability from the driver to the keeper.  If you have not revealed that you were the driver when asking for sars etc then they will have their work cut out to prove you were the driver.  Anyone who has car insurance can drive your car and you may have named drivers on your policy as well as family members who can and do drive the car.

 

There are two things wrong with the PCN according to  Schedule4 of PoFA as well as the fact that unless the sign on the wall above your car says no parking here or something similar, there appears no reason to assume that you cannot park there.

 

The two reasons are

1] the period of parking is not specified on the NTK,

2] the wording on the NTK must comply with the wording on Schedule 4 s8 [2][f]

"       

(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—

(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or

(ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;

(f)warn the keeper that if, at the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to keeper is given—

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges (as specified under paragraph (c) or (d)) has not been paid in full, and

(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

 

            "(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) is not mentioned at all. Total fail and you should keep this for your WS. Do not mention it on your stroppy defence as you do not want them knowing that or they will concoct some thing in their WS to misdirect the Court or just plain lie. 

 

 

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Thanks for all the replies, all communication I have had with them is in the pdf and I have not revealed who was driving the vehicle.

They have not provided me with clear pictures of the signage to see if it stated no parking and I have tried to get my own photos of it but it appears the area in question is now being ticketed by another parking firm and the original signage is gone.

@FTMDave is it worth sending them another email on top of the response I have already given them? If so what should this say?

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  • dx100uk changed the title to UKPC/DCB(L) Letter Of Claim - vanishing windscreen ticket - Progress Place, Liverpool, L1 6AF

Judges frown on court cases being started without an attempt being made to settle the matter, so In England & Wales there is the Pre-Action Protocol which includes a Letter of Claim being sent.  Essentially before the LoC any threats are hot air from paper tigers but once the LoC arrives you need to snap into action.

 

You have to give the fleecers a reason not to take you to court.  Being meek & mild won't do that, you need to come across as someone confident of your position who would be big trouble for them in court.
 

This "offence" was years ago but from the photos I would guess their one solitary pathetic sign will have said "no parking" in tiny letters.  I note another sign on the entrance gate not facing incoming traffic and on the passenger side.  So they're on a hiding to nothing on signage, not to mention the great work LFI has done on POFA.  How about -

 

Dear DCB Legal,

 

Re: your ref XXXXX

 

cheers for your Letter of Claim.  I creased up at the idea you actually thought I'd take such tripe seriously and cough up!

 

As per usual you'll have been too lazy to do any due diligence whatsoever otherwise you'd have seen that your client's case is complete pants.  You only have to look at the photos your client took of the event to see they'd get a hammering in court.

 

I see your greedy client couldn't resist making up £60 Unicorn Food Tax.  Judges don't like these invented sums, do they?

 

So if you want your client to get a good kicking in front of a judge then bring it on.  I will delight in going for an unreasonable costs order under CPR 27.14(2)(g) and spending it all on a nice foreign holiday now we can all travel again, while all the time laughing at you and your client.

 

I look forward to your deafening silence.

 

COPIED TO UK PARKING CONTROL LTD

 

I think that hints at the photos showing carp signage, without playing your cards too early.  Best to keep the fleecers guessing.

 

We normally say to not use e-mail, as if the matter did get to court they could file their lies at one minute to the deadline giving you no chance to rebut them.  However, as you've already been in touch with both DCBL and UKPC by e-mail I suppose you could e-mail this to DCBL and copy to UKPC.  However, see what the other regulars think first.

Edited by FTMDave
Typo

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

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try google street view history for old signs

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I didn't know that dx - I've learnt something today!

 

The historical photos show signs on both side of the entrance gates stating that it is private land, but nothing about what the restrictions are.  There is one solitary sign down the alleyway presumably with the restrictions in electron-microscope readable format.

 

 

Edited by FTMDave
Typos

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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So e-mail the snotty letter to DCBL and CC to UKPC tomorrow.

 

That will hopefully be the end of it.

 

If it does drag on  then we need to stop them using e-mail, but cross that bridge ...

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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  • 3 weeks later...

Slight update from DCBL recently who have somewhat responded to the SAR.

Looks like they don't hold much information or have simply not provided it and it also looks to be the case that they have issued the 'Letter before action' without the client actually transferring any evidence to them.

Looks to be the case from the wording that they still intend to proceed.

combined.pdf

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They dont have to transfer anything. Typically its the same printer at ukpc just using a different template.

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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