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Quality Cars and Commercials Ltd - faulty vehicle and unfair deductions


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I purchased a car from Quality Cars and Commercials Ltd at the end of March (2nd hand car, seen online and video, dealership in Birmingham and I'm in Kent). 
The day after delivery we noticed a whitish smoke from the exhaust. A few days later we realised there was no oil. There was also no recent MOT certificate in the paperwork supplied. Informed the salesman and he said the smoke was normal, just keep running the engine.  No oil he would look into. MOT certificate he would send. 
The problem got worse, oil kept disappearing and never received the MOT certificate. 
The salesman said we would need to do a diagnostic. 
Contacted a local garage who advised the diagnostic could not be done as there were no warning lights so there would be no results. 
Relayed this to salesman and he stopped responding to calls and messages.
The car was parked off.
I was having late pregnancy complications and missed the 30 days.
Drove the car once in an emergency (I was in labour) and the warning light came on enroute to hospital. 
Did the diagnostic when I got back home. The technician said the cylinder had gone and oil was burning through. This would have been evident if the car was checked before the sale.
The salesman said I must send the car to Birmingham for a check or reject. I rejected after the 30 days.
After months of back and forth, he agreed to refund but I had to agree to pay half the collection charge of  £150. The car was collected on 8th July.
The next day the owner then claims deductions:
-£150 delivery charge (from when I purchased the car. The car was £2799 and delivery was quoted £300, which the salesman knocked off on negotiation. Invoice also states 2799, nothing about delivery charge.)
-210 wear and tear.
-150 collection (this is what I agreed to for the car to be collected)

Wear/tear and delivery were never mentioned prior to collection. 

Can anyone advise if the wear and tear and delivery charges are valid? 

Does anyone have a template I can use to fight these claims?
Or any consumer protection solicitor recommendations to send a letter for me?

I'm sleep deprived and run down, just struggling to get this sorted. 

Any help/advice greatly appreciated.

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You don't need a solicitor and that's not what we do here. We will help you to do this yourself. We don't make references to legal professionals.

You will need to give us more information please.

First of all I gather they are offering you some money – how much?

Secondly, please can you tell us the make, model, mileage, how did you pay – did you pay by cash? Did you pay by bank transfer?

What is the name and address of the dealer? Did you inspect the car or did you simply buy on the basis of an advertisement online?

You say that you have never seen the MOT certificate? How do you know that it has one?

I understand that the current situation is that they have your car and they have your money – is this correct?

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Hi apologies, happy to try this myself. 

 

He is offering £2289.

Car cost of 2799 less 510 deductions.

It is a Mazda5, 2009, mileage 96107.

I paid by debit card. 

Trader is Quality Cars and Commercials Ltd, Birmingham B33 0SJ.

 

WWW.QUALITYCARSANDCOMMERCIALS.CO.UK

Buy a quality used car from Quality Cars & Commercials Ltd. Visit our showroom based in Birmingham, West MIdlands or give one of our knowledgeable staff a call today on 0121 603 6634.

 

Online advert and he sent a video.

 

 

He said the MOT was done and was advertised as done, and he would send me the copy of the certificate. My partner said I wouldn't have been able to do the insurance if it wasn't done... now I'm not sure if that's correct. 

 

Yes they have the money and car.

 

Thank you 

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You should certainly have received a copy of the MOT and it was risky not having it because if you had been stopped and it had transpired that there was no MOT in place then your problems would have been much more serious.

Also the MOT certificate may have contained all sorts of advisory information which would have given you more indication about the condition of the car.
We can discuss the whole business of the delivery charges et cetera later on – but for the moment, Your Rights in Respect of This Vehicle under the Consumer Rights Act are that if a defect occurs within the first 30 days then you are entitled to reject the car out of hand. Clearly you are aware of this but you missed the 30 day deadline.
You may not be aware of the six-month deadline. If a defect occurs within the first six months then the dealer it is entitled to a single opportunity to carry out a repair but if the repair fails or if the dealer declines, then you have the right to reject the vehicle.

Clearly you are within the six months limit so I should start off by writing the dealer a letter – send it by email but also by recorded delivery saying that the car has manifested a serious defect and because it is within the first six months of ownership, you are asserting your rights under the consumer rights act and that you are giving the dealer a single opportunity to carry out a repair. Tell the dealer that if the repair fails or if they don't want to do this then you are rejecting the car and you want the return of your money.

I'm afraid this won't be the end of the matter but you should get this letter off straight away and let us know what the reaction is. Once we know the dealer's position on this, we can advise you further.

Send the letter off straight away and keep us updated

 

 

Also, please could you clarify exactly what your outlay has been so far including all delivery costs et cetera plus any repairs that you might have had to carry out.
 

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With just the Registration number anyone can check the MOT and see details of Advisories, etc online at  www.check-mot.service.gov.uk 

 

With the 11 digit number on the V5C you can also see a copy of the Certificate and which MOT testing station did it.

 

 

 

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Hi, I did ask for the certificate as thought there would be some information about the white smoke... he said there wouldn't be and promised to send it. He never did. 

 

So I have rejected the car in May, after the diagnostic was done. He asked that I send the car back or reject, there was never an offer to repair.    I've not worded the rejection with the consumer rights act, should I send another rejection now even though the car has been collected?

 

In June he agreed to refund, only if I would pay half the collection cost. I agreed to that only as it was faster to get a refund. 

 

After he's collected the car he then told me about the delivery and wear/tear deductions.  He's not mentioned this in anytime prior.

 

The fault was present from delivery, and I was advised to run the engine.  When the problem got worse the car was parked off.

Is his claim for wear/tear valid?

 

And the delivery charge, it was free delivery as negotiated and as per invoice.  Can he still deduct this?

 

Many thanks 

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Let's talk about deductions et cetera afterwards.

For the moment – yes you must absolutely assert your rights under the consumer rights act. Tell him that you are writing simply to confirm the situation that you are asserting your rights under the consumer rights act. You understand that he is not prepared to carry out a repair although he is being given an opportunity and in the event that he declines then you are rejecting the vehicle and you want your refund.

Ask him to respond and to inform you when you are getting the money back.

It will be far better if we can leave the rest of the questions you are asking until we know the reaction to this letter.

Please send the letter straightaway

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By the way, try to keep the messages you are going to be sending very non-conflictual. We don't want to alert him that there is going to be trouble coming real soon.

 

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I would suggest as a way of forearming yourself that you pop onto this website:

WWW.GOV.UK

Check the MOT history of a vehicle from 2005 onwards, including if it passed or failed, its mileage and why it failed

 

Using that government service you can input the registration mark of your vehicle and determine whether it indeed has a current MOT certificate, and if it does, what advisories have been recorded against it.

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Any update on this - @Biltong3?

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Hi thank you for all the responses. 

I will draft a letter tomorrow as my partner is off work, currently have 3 little ones with colds to see to.

Will update ASAP.

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Thank you. I understand that you have family commitments which are very important and of course the pandemic situation is affecting us all, but it's important not to let this slide. You have already discovered that the dealer will not be at all fazed by your personal difficulties and in fact will take advantage of the situation as you missed deadlines or don't react quickly.

You will find that if you come to us for advice on this forum, our approach is to act extremely quickly, to seize control and keep the other side on the back foot.

The letter is very simple letter. It doesn't need any complicated formal language – it is simply about asserting your position so that later on it is an additional string to your bow.

I hope you will be to get the letter out on Monday. The whole thing has already gone on too long. If you're worried about the wording of the letter then post a draft up here and we'll take a look.

Once we get started on this, it will move forward very quickly. If they don't react within the next seven days – and I expect they won't – then I fully expect that we will be advising you to send a letter of claim on the following Monday and then begin an action 14 days later.

It's very important to set deadlines and to stick by them rigidly. If you don't then you lose control and you bring comfort to the other side.

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Hi thanks I understand.  Have some free time now and just looking through.

 

Just to clarify, I don't want a repair on the vehicle now.  He only said sent it back to Birmingham or reject.

 

Should the letter state consumer rights act and misrepresentation? That I just want a refund?

 

We agreed a refund and the car was collected so don't want him offering a repair now.

 

I'll check the MOT status, just don't have the log book as it was sent with the car last month. I could try and contact dvla and see if they can give me the v5 reference so I can get the full mot certificate. 

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I understand that you don't want the repair and that you want to reject it. However you have missed your chance to reject it and so you will have to give this opportunity to repair so at least you have it down on paper.

I think you can be completely confident that either he won't react at all or he will refuse. All you are trying to do is to lay down a paper trail and show that you have actually asserted your rights.

Once you have done that – and the more mistakes that he makes, then the stronger your position.

No the letter shouldn't state misrepresentation. You are simply asserting your rights under the consumer rights act and you are offering him an opportunity to repair or else you want your refund.

I suggest that you do it this way. You have come here for advice and I suggest that you follow our advice.

I see that you have parted company with the V5 – and you didn't take any copies or pictures of it. You should have done and you should start being very careful about keeping a paper trail of everything.

We are trying to help you take that control of this and it will be relatively straightforward but you have to go through the hoops. A solid paper trail is very important.

It's extraordinary that you bought the car without sight of the MOT and haven't insisted on it before now. Sorry I'm sure this doesn't help your morale but it has to be said and other people will visit this thread and learn from this discussion.

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I'm trying to make sense of this...so I did reject the car in May and now I'm sending him a letter rejecting the car again (with consumer act wording) and giving him the option to repair or refund. Is this correct?

Yes I know its my fault in not chasing for the MOT certificate and keeping a copy of the log book, definitely should have done. 

I did come here for advice and am following, just trying to get this right. 

 

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Yes that is correct. You need to assert your rights and be clear that you are invoking them under the 2015 Act.

This gives you certain advantages when it comes to taking an action against him – as you surely will have to even if he gives you a partial refund.

He originally asked if you are entitled to all of your expenses – and the answer is yes.

However, we have to do this slowly and prepare the way carefully.

The first step is to ask for the refund on the basis of your consumer rights under the 2015 act.

Because you've missed the 30 day deadline, you now have to revert to the six-month deadline and that means that you have to lay down a paper trail which shows that you have invoked those rights and that you have recognised is entitlement to carry out a repair in default of which you will reject.

This really is an important first step.

You don't do it then things will become complicated later on. I think they are already complicated enough for you and I suggest that you send the letter

Let's see it before you send it.

It doesn't have to be particularly formal. It doesn't have to bring in other issues – and it's better not to.

I would say that you could do in about four lines

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ok thank you.

 

is this okay? Too wordy? Do I need to put a subject title on it?

Dear XXXXXX,

 

I bought the vehicle, Mazda5 (REGISTRATION) from you on 20th March 2021.

 

On delivery vehicle had a smoke emission and oil issue which I informed you about.

The MOT certificate was not supplied with the vehicle and requests for the certificate were ignored.

 

The problems escalated over a short time and the car was not fit for purpose.

 

I wish to confirm that I am asserting my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 as there was a problem with the vehicle when I bought it.

 

I request that you repair the vehicle at no cost to me or provide a full refund.

 

Please respond within 7 days of receiving this letter.

 

Yours sincerely

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I've simplified it somewhat and suggest that you use the following draft.

 

 

Quote

Dear XXX

As you know, I bought a vehicle Mazda5 registration number XXX from you on 20 March 2021.

You delivered the vehicle and immediately started to display serious defects.

I've been trying to deal with you about this since then but you have provided no solution.

I'm writing to you to let you know that I'm asserting my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and I am giving you an opportunity to repair the to a proper standard.

If you carry out a repair which fails or if you decline to carry out the repairs then please consider this letter as my formal notice that I am rejecting the vehicle and I would like a refund.
 

You have already proposed giving me a partial refund.

The vehicle is already in your possession.

 

Please let me know what course of action you prefer to take.

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

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I'm sorry but there is no such thing as a "deadlock" letter in respect of this kind of thing. It may be that the CAB was suggesting that you might make a complaint to the motoring ombudsman but I'm afraid that that institution is pretty well useless. It is toothless and if the dealer is not a member or doesn't want to get involved then there is no way of obliging him. It's not a regulated industry.

The CA is a decent enough organisation and they are well-intentioned but that's probably about the best we can say for them. They are probably very good when advising people on housing issues and so forth but consumer issues it's very lukewarm stuff.

By coming here, it is almost inevitable that you will end up litigation. That's where we will lead you and if that's not your taste then you should probably take advice from the CA and I can pretty well guarantee that you will be back here with in a short time.

As I said, I think it's about time you took control of the situation.

Asking the dealer for a deadlock letter which he then refuses and you find yourself in the position of being a supplicant.

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Yes CAB said get the deadlock letter then find an alternative dispute resolution which I find odd as the trader needs to be part of an ADR scheme or affiliated to any Ombudsman. That's where I've been stuck all these weeks.

 

Ok just wanted to double check that doesn't affect anything.  He's not sent one or replied anyway. 

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5 hours ago, Biltong3 said:

I'll check the MOT status, just don't have the log book as it was sent with the car last month. I could try and contact dvla and see if they can give me the v5 reference so I can get the full mot certificate. 

No need for a V5C reference to see the MOT history.

As another poster and I have both indicated, you can see the MOT details immediately with only the Registration Number.

That will give you the dates and mileages of every MOT test the car has ever been submitted for.Including whether is was a Pass of Fail and details of any advisories and "Do not drive" notices. 

This information, if adverse, could assist and considerably strengthen your case.

 

All anyone needs to do this is just the registration number - nothing else. 

 

Do it now .................!!

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Hi @BankFodder

He has replied below. I'm assuming he wants to refund the amount minus deductions.....

 

MXXXXXX

 

I upstand my acceptance of the rejection under condition previously expressed. If you provide me with bank details I can process payment as soon as tomorrow.

 

Thanks

KXXXX

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  • BankFodder changed the title to Quality Cars and Commercials Ltd - faulty vehicle and unfair deductions

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