UK Parking Patrol office ltd/BW Windscreen PCN - Appealed - PAPLOC - 1423 - Manchester Aquatics Centre Booth Street East Manchester

[Manticwriter]

Good Afternoon guys! I wonder whether you would be so kind as to confirm next steps please?

 UK Parking Patrol Office Ltd

BWlegal

15-Nov-2016

the sum of £160.00 for parking in a no parking area on the 15-Nov-2016 (initial BWL letter 14-Apr-2020 and BWL COL 18-Feb-2021) @ Manchester Aquatics Centre, Booth St. East Manchester.

This resulted in a PCN being issued by UK Parking Patrol Office.

The PCN was issued as the Defendant failed to comply with the terms and conditions, as displayed.

Despite demands, the charge remains unpaid.

the Claim also includes £60.00 debt recovery cost. Claim costs below

Amount Claimed: 160

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A little more information from me:

The alleged offense occurred over four and a half years ago with the keeper of the vehicle residing at the same address.

The PCN was appealed to UK Parking Patrol Office Ltd but was rejected (30-Nov-2016).

I have the Parking Charge Notice and the Reminder Notice (14-Dec-2106) if needed.

Since then I hadn't heard anything further about this until last year letter date 14-April-2016.

The appeal was based on the location of the parking signs and the fact that other cars in the same area hadn't been ticketed.

The appeal was rejected on the basis that the vehicle was parked on private land that is well signed with bright yellow contractual notices stating, 'this area is for the use of Deliveries, Emergency Services and as a drop off point only'.

Parking is restricted to a max of 5 mins for dropping off only. 

I have subsequently read a number of other forums and submitted a SAR email to UK Parking Patrol office DPO (03-Mar-21) and received a response giving details of my letter, the appeal response, the PCN, reminder and very small thumbnails of the parking photos they have.

I also emailed BWlegal confirming

a). I am seeking debt advice but I deny any debt and the case must be put 'on hold' for not less than 30 days under the PAP for debt claims 2017 and

b). I have sent your client a SAR.

I had an automated response asking to provide required personal information and that they would be unable to respond until I provided this (03-Mar-21).

I haven't replied to this as yet.

I was going to email BWlegal back to ask for further documents on a blank reply form (not signing but asking for certain docs) but not sure if I should offer a defence  (some websites say not as above, others suggest offering one) - I assume it probably won't make a difference

I am currently under the assumption that come 25-Mar-21 BW legal will issue a County Court Claim against me and I will then get papers from the court to submit a defence etc... Is this correct?

My defence would be the usual issues with signage location, lighting issues, the fact that building work was/has been ongoing is this area and the issue around the added £60 for debt recovery.

I have also seen another reference to 'latches' due to the time elapsed from the reminder to the letter last year - not sure if this is something that can be used.

I assume the keeper vs. driver is a non-starter due to the appeal?

Any tips and advice is gratefully received?

If you need anymore information please let me know?

 

Thank you.

 

docs1.pdf

[dx100uk]

where does anything state its a FINE please? now removed - dx

 

dx

 

[Manticwriter]

Hi Dx, apologies - wrong choice of word. Fine is not mentioned

Edited March 13, 2021 by Manticwriter

[dx100uk]

  VERY important difference!!

 

now you've put up our court claimform sticky

are we to assume you ignored the letter of claim? and they HAVE requested northants bulk to issue a court claim and you now have a large brown windowed A4 envelope with a claimpack?

[Manticwriter]

 

In response to your questions, we didn't ignore the letter of claim,

sent an SAR to UK Parking Patrol Office ltd and also emailed BWlegal as suggested on another consumer website.

We don't have a large brown envelope.

I was under the impression that we had time given the statement in the LOC that says -

'if payment or a response is not received before 25-March-2021, we are instructed to issue a claim against you......

I did confirm this with another Facebook consumer person who suggested I didn't need to do anything else.

I've read so many posts of various websites it's all very confusing to be honest.

 

thanks

[honeybee13]

It's better to stick with one method of dealing with parking claims. We don't normally advise to send an SAR but it can't have done a lot of damage.

 

Please let us look through your information supplied and decide on the best way to tackle this.

 

Have you set up and MCOL account and acknowledged the claim?

 

HB

[Manticwriter]

Hi HB,

no, I haven't done this

- this is a new one on me.

 I'm starting to get a little nervous now that I've missed things / relied on people that don't know.....

[honeybee13]

It's OK, take a breath. People will be along soon with advice for you.

 

HB

[Manticwriter]

thanks HB

[dx100uk]

still not 1000% clear to me you actually have a claimform from northants bulk court yet

as the claimant would NOT be BWlegal.

 

this is only at the letter of claim stage from BW legal?

 

have you got one of what looks like the pdf i've attached?

 

 

claimform vcs.pdf

[Manticwriter]

Hi Dx, no, I haven't received one of these yet!

[dx100uk]

brilliant i thought as much

you've just read sOOOOO much BS elsewhere you got yourself in a right pickle

and to be honest have shot yourself in the foot already by sending what you have to date as you've ID'd yourself as the driver now and removed your protection under POFA2012.

 

now i've had to remove your upload from post 1 as you'd left ref numbers showing. (back up now redacted - dx)

 

i need you to do another multipage PDF 

but this time we need EVERYTHING inc the Windscreen PCN

bothsides of every letter inc your responses please...the LOT from day one.

all you need to do is remove anything (as a JPG picture file) off each page

ref numbers, your address, name, reg no, bar and Qcodes etc etc 

that THEY can use to ID you here.

 

leave ALL dates and times amounts etc etc.

 

once we have all this them we will advise your next step.

 

poss a snotty letter 

DON'T ever do anything further toward the fleecers whatever it is WITHOUT CHECKING HERE 1st it's OK to do 

 

IMPORTANT^^^

[Manticwriter]

Hi,

I have attached the new pdf

I've not included

the standard reply form with the inc/exp form that came with the COL, 

the BWlegal payment methods page

or the SAR Tickit information received from UK Parking Patrol

screenshots on the app with photo thumbnails details on the

PCN,

charges

keeper

histrory

really appreciate your help on this - thank you

 

Besides the UK Parking Patrol photos,

I also have photos taken of where the car was parked in relation to the signs and how dark it was.

 

docs 2.pdf

[dx100uk]

use our search top right in the top red banner 

 

snotty letter.

 

time to insult them.

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

thread tidied a bit to remove PAPLOC/Claimform confusion.

 

BTW you've only got this letter of claim because they were hoping you had moved and they'd get a backdoor CCJ.

 

dx

 

[lookinforinfo]

I notice that you asked them for the length of time that you stopped there. Did you not receive photos of when you arrived and left or other photos confirming that you stayed there longer than their apparently stipulated time limit of 5 minutes? 

Their NTD in order to comply withPoFA under schedule 4 [7]  

2)The notice must—

(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;

 

Their PCN is therefore defective as it does not specify the period of parking. If there are no photos then how can they prove that you stayed for more then 5 minutes?

[Manticwriter]

Hi, yes,

they have supplied a set of four small thumbnail photos that look like they have a timestamp down the LHS ( can see the times) so I guess this throws out using the above? 

I have drafted a snotty letter below

- pretty basic so any suggest additions would be appreciated? 

I am trying to weigh up my chances here given that the appeal letter outlines most of the POFA details.

I have some additional photos that show the location and positioning of

the car,

signage (but too far to see the wording), 

the lighting conditions and

the fact that the area had/has undergone significant physical changes since 2016 (not sure if this goes in my favour or against).

For the untrained eye I have is these points above and the 'abuse of process.' 

Ref PCN: ****
VRN: ****

PCN Date: 16-Nov-2016
Issue Date (Posted): 18-Feb-2021 

I write in response to your so-called “Letter Before Claim”, received in relation to PCN Number xxxx, issued by UK Parking Patrol Office Limited MET Parking for alleged parking breaches.

I am writing to confirm that I have no intention of paying these ridiculous and made-up sums of money for allegedly breaking some imaginary contract with your client.

I require that you advise me as to what legal authority you have to add an amount of £60 to your claim.  You clearly already know that this is Abuse of Process as per the claim made by BWlegal in Luton County Court, claim number .).

I look forward to your clients next move - should your client wish to instigate legal proceedings in relation to this alleged debt, it will be defended vehemently, and I shall be seeking a full costs recovery  order for unreasonable behaviour. 

 

[FTMDave]

95% of what you've written is fine - well done.

 

However, change the line "I require that you advise me as to what legal authority you have to add an amount of £60 to your claim".

 

The point of the letter is to get them to crawl back under their stone, as they realise you'd be big trouble in court and would probably win.  The last thing you want to do is to invite further correspondence with them.  If you send the letter as it is now, they'll write something back about their client having to spend extra amounts on debt recovery costs and so the £60 is justified.  Instead replace that line with something like "I see your clients have included £60 Unicorn Food Tax".

 

Write at the bottom "COPIED TO UK PARKING PATROL OFFICE LTD".  This is because we've seen unscrupulous solicitors egging on their clients to go to court.  Let the fleecers know too that they'd be hit in the pocket.

 

If none of the other regulars suggest tweaks, invest in two 2nd class stamps tomorrow and send off the letters with free Certificates of Posting.

 

 

 

[Manticwriter]

Thanks FTMDave

[dx100uk]

you dont need the picture.

 

dx

 

[lookinforinfo]

I have just reread your letter to them and realise that you told them that you had been parked there for 20 minutes!

They must have loved that letter since you admitted that you were the driver and how long you stayed there.

I know you were not to know but next time just ignore appealing.

They rarely allow them as greed and dishonesty are their strongest points.

[Manticwriter]

Hi, reworded below.

Tbh its my wife's car and she appealed the parking ticket back in 2016, so yes, something to be learned. She's pretty anxious about this!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ref PCN: ****
VRN: ****

PCN Date: 16-Nov-2016
Issue Date (Posted): 18-Feb-2021

I write in response to your so-called “Letter Before Claim”, received in relation to PCN Number xxxx, issued by UK Parking Patrol Office Limited MET Parking for alleged parking breaches. I have no intention of paying these ridiculous and trumped up sums of money for allegedly breaking some imaginary contract with your client.

Photographs of the poorly maintained site with the poorly placed signs have been taken by the driver and will be confidently provided for evidence in court. The driver did obey the best a person could to your client’s badly located and dimly signs.

You also clearly know that you have no right to knowingly inflate the initial claim with a fictitious debt recovery sum that you are not entitled to recover - this have been proved in court as an 'Abuse of Process' as per the claim made by BWlegal in Luton County Court, claim number F0DP77KP).

I look forward to your clients next move - should your client wish to instigate legal proceedings in relation to this alleged debt, it will be defended vehemently, and I shall be seeking a full costs recover y order for unreasonable behaviour. 

forgot the statement on the bottom of the letter - COPIED TO UK PARKING PATROL OFFICE LTD

there have been no further comments back on the letter so will get this posted later this afternoon,

thanks

[Manticwriter]

Hi,

attached response BWL where they try and legitimise the parking contract and signage, and finally quote ParkingEye Ltd vs. Beavis to justify the £100 but don't comment on the £60 debt recovery 'abuse of process' charge

. Is it worth responding to the letter or do I just sit and wait for the court papers?

I'm adamant that I'm not paying the additional charge but trying to understand my defence with regards to my earlier posting on 14-Mar. thank you 

 

2021-03-19 BW PAPLOC Reply responce.pdf

[dx100uk]

you ignore them.

quite a familiar reply by them almost an exact template of others here.

 

dx 

[FTMDave]

Any update here?

I ask as we have someone new being hassled by UK Parking Patrol Office.