Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
    • Makers of insect-based animal feed hope to be able to compete with soybeans on price.View the full article
    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

NSGL/QDR PCN claimform - residential - Century Wharf, Cardiff, CF10 5NP - *** Claim Dismissed***


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 1007 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi all

 

No update on this particular case but in one of the subsequent POPLA appeals regarding an invoice at the same premises for a later date which is currently ongoing they've provided 2 copies of a landowner contract, one dated 2015 and the other dated 2021 which do actually appear to give them the right to take legal action.  

 

One of the points I was planning to make in my witness statement is lack of locus standi so I'm guessing this rules that one out.

 

I've attached them here for perusal.

 

Thanks

CD

Century wharfParking enforcement agreement V2.pdf century wharf agreement signed.pdf

Link to post
Share on other sites

but until they produce those in their ws they have no relevance to this court  case...

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Afternoon all.

 

I've been away for a few weeks. 

 

When I got home I had a letter from from the Cardiff CC. 

The hearing looks like it's going ahead on the 28th July, and I've been instructed to submit a witness statement to the court and the other party by June 9th.  

 

I've already started prepping a witness statement.  When I've got it sort of ready am I OK to post a redacted copy of it up here for scrutiny?

 

Thanks

CD

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, so if you think it'll help;

 

1 The date of infringement? 09/03/2020
 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] Yes
 

Has there been a response?  Yes
 

Have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]  Yes
 

What date is on it? 14/04/2020
 

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? No, but it did give a brief instruction of how to access them online

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] Yes
 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]

Yes, they gave instructions on how to appeal to POPLA.
 

5 Who is the parking company? NSGL Ltd
 

6. Where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Century Wharf Housing Complex - Cardiff Bay

 

NTK1-Redacted.pdf Appeal to NSGL - 09_04_2020.pdf appeal-reply-redacted.pdf

Link to post
Share on other sites

hi CD

can i just check the above appeal/reply docs are in relation to the PCN detailed in the POC ?

 

so they have upheld the same appeal on numerous other like PCN's but decided simply to play stupid on this one?

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

ok sorry

so 5 successes through popla for basically the same situation as this one?

that needs a mention if true

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep.  I'm fully expecting another claim form for the other rejected appeal to arrive shortly, although part of me expects that they'll wait to find out the outcome of this particular case first before they chance their hand again.

 

I'll add it to the witness statement.  If their own governing body appeals service deems the majority of them to be unfairly issued, then I'm not sure what they hope to achieve in county court.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That 5 were upheld by POPLA would be probably fatal to their case if POC on exactly same grounds the other appeals to POPLA were upheld on, as no course of action realistically exists.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks both.  I'll spend some time over the long weekend working it into my WS.  

 

One other question, I want to bring up the case of UKPC vs Miss C linked here;

 

https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017/07/ukpc-lose-residential-case-tenant-can.html

 

The circumstances of this case are nearly identical to mine.  However, is there some official copy of the judgement I can include in my evidence pack?  I want to refer to it but can't find any other reference to it other than a few paragraphs on Parking Prankster's blog.

Link to post
Share on other sites

simply use the claim number etc like..

 

C8HW2E9Q – UKPC v Miss C, Reading 12/07/2017 before District Judge Harrison

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Cheers DX.  I've included that now.  Plus expanded it to include a bit about the successful POPLA appeals.

 

I've attached a draft here for your perusal.  Let me know if anything needs adding, removing or expanding?

 

Thanks

CD

Copy of Defendant's Witness Statement - Redacted.pdf

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks good is clear concise and simple. Just see what rest of team thinks there may be some fettling here and there.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

Link to post
Share on other sites

It addresses the issues, one point that springs to mind is why did the Managing Agents bring in fleecer's to a place that only authorised people can enter as in by fob, or by resident opening the gate for them.   Once Fleecers sent away, might be worth billing them for their breach of GDPR obtaining your keeper details.

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

Link to post
Share on other sites

No idea mate, maybe they had problems in the past with people parking in others spaces.  As far as I know the majority of the flats in the complex have one allocated space each so if you get a couple move in to one flat who have a car each, with very limited numbers of visitors bays available that's only going to cause issues.  

 

Then along come our company who generously offer to police parking at the premises with no cost to the landowner.  The problem is solved from their side.  

 

I don't know anyone else who lives at the complex so I'm not sure how widespread an issue it is but it seems to be a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut approach.  If it was a case of them only coming to slap a PCN on a car if a resident contacted them to complain that someone was in their space illegally then it'd be perfectly reasonable as it's depriving a resident use of their own space that they're paying for.

 

The GDPR angle is interesting, although they'd probably just claim that because they're members of the BPA this gives them an automatic right to request anyone's details from the DVLA.  Whether a civil dispute such as this is sufficient grounds to release a person's personal data under the GDPR is a whole other can of worms though.  What's ironic is that if I had suffered a genuine loss, say for instance someone sideswiped my car outside my house and drove off, but I got their registration number on my CCTV, the DVLA probably wouldn't give it to me, and I'd have to go via the police to get their information.  Whereas these cowboys can simply request it because someone committed the heinous crime of parking without a slip of paper on their dashboard.  The DVLA gets their fee for providing the details to shady outfits like these anyway so I'm sure they don't give a toss.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've cut out a few lines that weren't particularly relevant, added the odd thing and moved the sections round a bit to try to make the arguments better follow each other.  See what you think.

 

A couple of things.

 

Did you ever get a look at the driver's friend's tenancy agreement and what is says about parking?

 

I was wondering whether to put in a mention of the driver always leaving notes but thought best not to, as it would suggest they had seen the signs and knew that parking was regulated.  But see what the other regulars think.

 

Can you confirm how the figure of £162 is reached?  Is it £80 PCN plus £82 Unicorn Food Tax?  I've added a short sentence to that effect at the end.

Copy of Defendant's Witness Statement - Redacted-converted-converted.pdf

  • Thanks 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Cheers Dave

 

I did ask the resident whether she had consulted her tenancy agreement but the long and the short of it was that she rents it privately off another friend (who I don't know) and never signed an official agreement.

 

I'll just went back and consulted the letter chain and the total owed went from £80 for just the PCN to £150 when the debt collection company (ZZPS Ltd) got involved.  It doesn't say what those additional fees are for, it just says "In accordance with the terms and conditions of parking, debt collection charges have now been added and the balance owed is shown above.  You were given prior notice of additional costs through the signage at the location."   Not sure yet where they've got the other £12 from.

Link to post
Share on other sites

BPA membership gives no right to process data in breach of GDPR if there is no cause to request it.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Rereading, this last paragraph I've added is pretty poor.  Change it to "In their Particulars of Claim, as well as the £80 "parking charge" plus costs and interest, the claimant has invented a spurious amount of £82 in an attempt to circumvent the limit on costs at small claims and in essence to recover costs twice" and move its position to before your Beavis paragraph..

 

Cut out the bit "I acknowledge that the claimant has a duty to prevent unauthorised parking on the premises but" as later under "No Locus Standi" you say they have not shown proof of authority to enforce parking.

Edited by FTMDave
Typo
  • Thanks 1

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Morning Dave

 

I've made the changes as you've suggested and am ready to file this now as it needs to be in by the 9th.  One last question hopefully, after the section regarding punitive charges, do I need to put in any kind of summary paragraph or is it fine to go as it is, with the photos and other evidence included?

 

Cheers

CD

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...