Your parking ticket may be unlawful

[chrismc]

HOT news regarding my case - Blackpool Press release due soon so I don't want to post details before that happens but it looks like bad news for the council.

 

Watch this space!

 

Can't wait m8 will it be retroactive???

[seething]

Hi,

 

My PCN just states "Issued on: 09/06/2006" Is that the same as "Date of Issue"

or is this also illegal??

 

I received a £30 charge for parking overnight in a 'FREE" zone in Milton Keynes. clearly marked with a green line. On returning to my car I was amazed to find a PCN (and a cracked windscreen!!!) My main issue is that the large sign at the entrance read quite clearly that the green zones were free, no mention of the "permit holders only restriction from 7.00 to 8.30am" (I got the ticket at 8.06am although it says only "at: 08.06" on the ticket!, not am or pm.)

 

 

 

Yes, that was on a very small sign at the end of the line of bays, which I didn't see. I wrote back about the issue including photographs of the signs but they said I should have seen the notice on the machine! Why would I even be looking at the machine in a "free" zone? This surely is a case for not seeing the "small print".

 

Do I have a case?

 

Regards

 

seething.

[MondeoST24]

HOT news regarding my case - Blackpool Press release due soon so I don't want to post details before that happens but it looks like bad news for the council.

 

Watch this space!

 

Blackpool are in big, big trouble trust me. It could even become a police matter

 

Like he said, watch this space!

[seylectric]

Ok there has been an article in the local Blackpool Gazette by Neil Herron MP who has declared the tickets to be illegal.

 

Copy of email sent to me by Neil Herron:

 

"Leading Parking Ticket Campaigner Neil Herron has come to the aid of oppressed motorists in Blackpool. Examination of the local authority's Penalty Charge Notices (PCN) has uncovered evidence that will not only render them legally invalid, but they are worded in such a way to mislead the motorist into believing a more serious criminal 'offence' has been committed rather than simply a civil contravention.

 

Section 66(3) of the 1991 Road Traffic Act requires that there be a 'date of issue' on the PCN, which Blackpool's now has but there is no reference to a date and time of contravention.

Blackpool have only recently changed their PCNs to include the words 'date of issue,' but fail to include a separate date and time of contravention as the legislation requires.

As it is the Registered Keeper and not the driver who is responsible for payment of the fine, there is a real possibility of prejudice exists and the ticket is capable of being successfully appealed in EVERY instance to the National Parking Adjudication Service. Indeed, the National Parking Adjudication Service has stated that any such ticket which doesn't contain the correct wording is void.

 

At a Traffic Law Seminar on Thursday 3rd July 2003 8. in Leeds, Caroline Sheppard, NPAS Chief Adjudicator states,

"The PCN has a mandatory information inclusion; without that all notices are void."

 

However, Blackpool's PCN's have another more serious mistake, and one which could mislead the motorist into believing that he has committed a criminal rather than a civil act. This therefore differs from the cases cited below in one significant way.

 

On the payment slip it reads "Date of Offence" 7.

 

As there is no 'offence' there is no requirement to pay 8. Every person who has been misled by this illegally worded PCN should be refunded. We are quite prepared to assist with any action required. We believe that Blackpool are aware of this misrepresentation and have chosen to do continue to demand money from motorists unlawfully.

 

 

They further compound this misrepresentation by referring, on Blackpool Council's Parking Services website,9. to the word 'fine' and to 'the driver.'

 

 

 

"If you are a driver who parks your vehicle correctly these changes will not affect you in any way. If, however, you park your vehicle in places where you shouldn't, then don't be surprised if you find yourself on the receiving end of a fine."

 

 

 

The Council should be aware that 'fine' should read 'Penalty Charge.'

And under the 1991 Road Traffic Act it is the 'registered keeper' and not the 'driver' who is responsible for an alleged 'contravention' and not an 'offence.'

 

A Burnley resident, Ben Durkin, had taken advice from the campaign and issued a 'letter before action' to Blackpool Council. In the letter Mr. Durkin has demanded that his money be returned as Blackpool have misrepresented their position. He gave them 14 days to respond and the letter was sent by recorded delivery on from May 2006. Any response is now long overdue.

It is expected, should Blackpool fail to refund monies taken unlawfully, that legal action will follow. It is expected that this will be a landmark case in which millions of pounds taken unlawfully from motorists in Blackpool will have to be refunded.

 

Neil Herron states, "Yet again we have caught out another local authority playing fast and lose with their legal responsibilities. Many have cut corners in their attempt to introduce Decriminalised Parking Enforcement, but the law is a two-way street and it is not just the motorist that must obey the law. This is a very serious matter in which the misrepresentation of the legal situation with the inference that a criminal offence has been committed and means that Blackpool have made a catastrophic error and all drivers must be refunded."

 

Ben Durkin states, "I find it staggering that local authorities such as Blackpool, who are in charge of hundreds of millions of pounds of public money are knowingly extorting money from motorists in this illegal manner. It makes you wonder what else is going on. Personally I wouldn't trust them to run a bath."

 

The campaign can be contacted by e-mail at [email protected]

 

ENDS"

 

 

Incredibly I appealed against three parking tickets and the council, in a lengthy three-page letter, rejected my appeals (believe me Blackpool reject everything), pointing out to me that there are two different dates shown, the "Date of Issue" and the "Date of Offence", yet incredibly make no mention of the fact that it should show "date of Contravention" and not "Date of Offence".

[seylectric]

It gets better. I had no need to use this clause on a fourth ticket I appealed against because the car registration number was unclear - only the last five digits can be seen. In a reply bordering on farce they rejected this too, sending me what they described as a "copy" of the PCN stating "Please find attached a copy PCN that clearly states the Registration number.

 

Spot the difference; the first one is the original.

 

The second one is clearly not a direct copy of the original, and could have been knocked up in five minutes on Word or something. It's irrelevant anyway, the ORIGINAL PCN is inelegible and that's all that matters. Their arrogance in disregarding the law is staggering. However this is nothing compared to their incompetence. The reason the original is unreadable is because the ticket wasn't stuffed into the usual yellow envelope, but the warden had tried and failed (because it was raining and the windscreen was wet) to stick it to the windscreen simply by using the sealing strip on the envelope. The actual paper covering the sticky-back part of the envelope is still intact (and in my possession). When that failed he stuck it behind the wiper, again they are not supposed to do that. Claim for new wiper going in to replace the one he damaged.

 

 

[seylectric]

seething...

 

Appeal to NPAS and indicate that you want the council to produce the photos which should clearly show you were parked in a "free" zone.

 

I suspect "Issued on..." might be seen as being the same as "Date of Issue" by the adjudicator, but the wording is not exactly correct. I would rely more on the first point though but worth mentioning it.

[seylectric]

Going off at a tangent slightly I have heard that many people have had great success in appealing against parking tickets issued against them when parked in a disabled zone on the basis that it discriminates against them according to the Human Rights Act.

 

Basically that Act states that we should all be treated equally, you could then argue that it's unfair that disabled people are alowed to park in areas where the rest of us are not!

 

I'm not suggesting we all go and fill up disabled parking spaces, common sense is the key here but in theory you could claim discrimination if you get a ticket.

[chrismc]

Amazing, how incompetent this lot are, it beggars belief how they just ride roughshod over their own Rates payers and the law in general.

 

I wrote to them appealing agianst one PCN in April and they just fobbbed me off as usual, I also rang the Council about another one that I was sure I was legitimately entitled to query, this was about 2-3 years ago and the actual lady clerk told me she also received a PCN in exactly the same place as me, she appealed even though she works for Blackpool Council and she was refused too and had to pay it!

 

So can we all start asking for our money back or do we need to wait until the Ben Durkin outcome?

[seylectric]

Well I'm going to contact Neil Herron with full details of my case later this week if I get the chance, because for me it's not just about a few illegal parking tickets but everything else that goes with it; illegal harrassment from the bailiffs (their tactics were illegal long before we discovered that the tickets were illegal, so now it's even worse); lines painted in areas where they don't need them simply to raise more revenue by "catching out" drivers who have nowhere else to go; discriminatory residents parking scheme - again I believe this is just about raising revenue, catching out drivers - visitors perhaps - who park in these areas, but discriminatory because if I moved to the next street it's free to park there! Why should I have to pay a premium and be constrained by additional regulations?

[seething]

Well I'm going to contact Neil Herron with full details of my case later this week if I get the chance, because for me it's not just about a few illegal parking tickets but everything else that goes with it; illegal harrassment from the bailiffs (their tactics were illegal long before we discovered that the tickets were illegal, so now it's even worse); lines painted in areas where they don't need them simply to raise more revenue by "catching out" drivers who have nowhere else to go; discriminatory residents parking scheme - again I believe this is just about raising revenue, catching out drivers - visitors perhaps - who park in these areas, but discriminatory because if I moved to the next street it's free to park there! Why should I have to pay a premium and be constrained by additional regulations?

 

Hey hey hey, Just found an old disputed ticket

that IS Illegal!!

 

(I'm already very angry about I ticket I got when the machine was full and wouldn't take my 20p)

 

I had paid for a season ticket £120 six months!! (cash only no credit cards!!)

 

My mistake was that I parked in 'Heaths Nursery' which isn't allowed and not 'Heath Way' or 'The Nursery'

which are both OK. (see the difference??) My appeal to them was refused.

 

I paid up as they threatened court action, which they accepted

in 'full and final settlement of the matter'.

 

LOOK!!!!!!

This is what is written on it. (No 'date of Issue')

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

Parking place standard charge notice.

 

Road traffic act 1984

(as amended)

 

To the driver of the vehicle shown below.

Payment slip.

Parking place standard charge £40

 

You are informed that this vehicle was parked in contravention

of the above order as shown below;

 

Ticket number: 303892

Inspector: 06

Parking place: Heaths Nursery

Area:

Registration number: YLU999X

First Noticed at: 18/11/02 and 14:37

Time on Ticket: 00:00

 

Make: Volkswagen

Colour: Brown/Faun

Fee Paid: 0:00

Unpaid charge: £0:40

 

Licencing authority: KINGSBRIDGE

Time of issue: 14:38

 

Signature of inspector (followed by illegible scribble, probably can't read/write ; )

 

SEASON TICKET NOT VALID IN SHORT STAY CAR PARK

 

 

HSBC loan - DPA letter sent 6/06/06 (OK it was really 9/06/06 but it's more appropriate isn't it?)

HSBC credit card - DPA letter sent 6/06/06

HSBC 3 accounts - DPA letter sent 6/06/06

RBS (Mint) Credit card - DPA letter sent 6/06/06

 

Lets hope that light at the end of the tunnel isn't in fact a train coming the other way.

[thunderpuss2k]

Mines just been rejected this morning by Watford Council.. nice arrogant letter too. Will put online in a bit..

[dre]

Hi Everyone,

 

Read this thread almost back to front, wondered if I could get some help.

 

Got a parking ticket on Thursday in a private car park which was enforced by some sort of a Parking Attendant agency.

 

Much has been mentioned on this thread about the date being incorrectly worded. My PCN say "On (date): ", does this make the ticket invalid/illegal.

 

Also, while it has the car make, it does not have the car model, more significantly, the PA got the colour of my car wrong. The PCN says Colour is burgundy, the car is actually a bluey purple.

 

The PA did take a foto of the car, I believe he took it AFTER I had taken the PCN off the windscreen.

 

Will try and make a copy of the PCN ASAP.

 

Any help greatly appreciated.

[MondeoST24]

Dre,

 

This only applies to tickets issued under the Decriminalised Parking Enforcement system, which uses the Road Traffic Act 1991, these tickets are usually issued by the council or thier agents

 

I'm pretty sure private car parks are different.

[dre]

Dre,

 

This only applies to tickets issued under the Decriminalised Parking Enforcement system, which uses the Road Traffic Act 1991, these tickets are usually issued by the council or thier agents

 

I'm pretty sure private car parks are different.

 

even if the PAs are the same ones who patrol the council run parking too?

 

I appreciate its a long shot, getting fed up with being continually vultured out of the very little money I have now.

 

Thanks for the help though Mondeo

[MondeoST24]

Does the PCN mention the Road Traffic Act 1991?

 

It would be helpful if you could post a scan of the PCN, i'll try and help you

[dre]

The PCN in question:

 

Regarding the wording of the date, I appreciate thats a long shot as its a private car park. What got me into investigating whether this ticket is invalid was a few months ago, I read an article with a retired police officer who was so fed up with the way traffic wardens behave he wrote a book on how to overturn your PCN. One simple factor he mentioned was that if the colour is wrong, the PCN is invalid.

 

THIS is the main factor I want to clarrify as the colour on my PCN is completly wrong.

[Movingon]

To be honest I'm not sure if parking in a private car park is in any way governed by any laws... I'm not absolutely certain, but it's like the fact that membership of a private club can be restricted to white males with blue eyes and blonde hair if the club so wishes; which for any public club would be immediately illegal under racism law.

[thunderpuss2k]

Trying to find out more about this subject as I'm curious about the law and private car parking companies.. anyway I just found this:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=369177&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

 

[edit: and this - http://www.dvla.gov.uk/vehicles/codeprac.htm]

 

Might be worth a read..

[thunderpuss2k]

To be honest I'm not sure if parking in a private car park is in any way governed by any laws...

 

Think it might be trespass? But don't hold me to it..

[dre]

so I guess I might as well pay up?

[thunderpuss2k]

I wouldn't, I'd stick it out.. but I'm like that Sure a day or two waiting for someone who knows about these things won't cause you any probs - when was the ticket issued?

[dre]

Issued on Thurs, got 7 days to make an appeal, 14 days for £40, 28 days for £80.

 

Just read the Daily Mail article, linked above. So it seems I could be traced via DVLA no problem, would they take this to court though?

 

Thurs 15th June that is

[thunderpuss2k]

Possibly. But here's the bit I'm interested in. What law do their charges come under? Just looked at your scan of the ticket, and it looks remarkably like an 'official' ticket - which it isn't.

[dre]

The PA would also be patrolling all the residential Pay and Display stuff, council parking etc etc, the slip even came in the well known Yellow "Notice to Driver" plastic packet that sticks to your windscreen

[thunderpuss2k]

Almost forgot, I was gonna upload mine..

 

[edit: just click this link, damn hotlink protection! http://www.tp2k.com/pcnwatfordpublic.html ]