SPML/LMC anyone claimed for mis selling and unfair charges?

[ryde]

eie

Take it you must have read this,a vindication of Mr Fulcher's and Carmel Butler's submissions which have been taken on board by mps but have been hampered by FSA lethargy.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmselect/cmtreasy/1068/1068.pdf

[kurvaface]

Hey guys.

 

Adding to an earlier question of mine, I believe SPML paid a commission to my broker ( who is now out of business..."National Guarantee PLC")when I took my mortgage out in '03 - without disclosing it.

 

What's the proceedure for finding out what was paid to whom because there is nothing in my paperwork and if there is a commission what's the proceedure for claiming it back.

 

I can see this is a busy thread but would be really grateful if soemone could point me in the right direction. Cheers.

[enoughisenough]

Ryde

 

your spot on I have read and it's full of get out clauses along the lines of oh well we know we should be doing something. But we probably won't. There's clear evidence of both here.

 

Lethargy? Ah that's where I've been going wrong. They're tired. As here was me thinking that they were in cahoots or simply incompetent!

[ZillaK]

@ kurvaface - a Subject Access Request to SPML might disclose the information you need...

[kurvaface]

@ kurvaface - a Subject Access Request to SPML might disclose the information you need...

 

Yeah I was thinking that. I can't think of anyother way to force them to disclose.

[ryde]

Hey guys.

 

Adding to an earlier question of mine, I believe SPML paid a commission to my broker ( who is now out of business..."National Guarantee PLC")when I took my mortgage out in '03 - without disclosing it.

 

What's the proceedure for finding out what was paid to whom because there is nothing in my paperwork and if there is a commission what's the proceedure for claiming it back.

 

I can see this is a busy thread but would be really grateful if soemone could point me in the right direction. Cheers.

 

kurvaface

The only way I discovered a secret commission was by obtaining a copy of the original application form which they submitted rather stupidly as evidence.

The next step would I would think be to make a claim for misselling either through the court or the FOS if you never agreed to this being paid.

Theres plenty of info just a few pages back on misselling and a seperate thread on secret commissions,which can lead to recission of the whole contract in certain circumstances.

[kurvaface]

Cheers Ryde..

 

This thread is over 5500 posts long. My mortgage will be paid before i can read through that lot lol.

[ryde]

kurvaface

here is part of the post

2nd thing you need to look at is this test case

Wilson v Hurstanger | OUT-LAW.COM by Pinsent Masons LLP

 

rocket the first has already been posted above the second is here hope it is of assistance .

YOUR MAIN DEFENCE NOW IT WOULD SEEM WOULD HAVE TO BE ON THE MISSELLING AFFORDABILITY PREMISE WITH THIS ARTICLE AS YOUR CENTRAL ARGUMENT.

BUT YOU HAVE TO RUN IT PAST ELL-ENN FIRST.

 

 

Key repossession ruling opens door to mortgage mis-selling complaints

 

An Ombudsman's verdict offers hope for homeowners who are battling to keep a roof over their heads. Neasa MacErlean reports

A remarkable Ombudsman victory for a householder who had his home repossessed after being mis-sold a hefty mortgage could set a precedent, preventing others from losing their properties as the recession bites, lawyers say.

This year an estimated 75,000 families - against 40,000 last year - will lose their homes, according to the Council of Mortgage Lenders (CML).

But many who face handing back the keys could be helped by rules covering "suitable advice" for borrowers, buried in the handbook of the Financial Services Authority (FSA), the City regulator.

Andrew Brown (not his real name) struggled to repay his mortgage but subsequently took his mis-selling case to the Financial ombudsman Service, and has now won. Despite turning to the fos late on and being repossessed, he will receive compensation - while other borrowers who begin cases at an earlier stage than he did might well be able to save their homes too.

A housing association tenant, Brown had the valuable promise of a rent fixed for life. However, a mortgage adviser persuaded him to buy the property and failed to consider "what would happen when the attractive discounted rate [set up on that mortgage] ended", according to an fos spokeswoman.

Brown was repossessed and had to move; he then lodged a complaint with his mortgage adviser and ultimately brought the case to the fos.

Industry specialists believe more claims of this kind are now likely to emerge. The main source of optimism for those in a similar position lies deep within the FSA's rulebook for mortgage advisers, Mortgage and Home Finance: Conduct of Business (MCOB).

This states mortgage advice must be "suitable for that customer" and that advisers "must make and retain a record" of it being suitable; this is known, crucially (and rather technically), as complying with section 4.7. Breaches of the MCOB rules are "actionable at the suit of a private person who suffers loss as a result", under section 150 of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000.

"Undoubtedly, such cases would succeed," says professional negligence barrister John Virgo of Guildhall Chambers in Bristol. "There is a fundamental obligation under MCOB [rules] and I'm sure there will be a pretty big increase in this sort of litigation."

Philip Ryley, head of financial services and markets at solicitor Michelmores, is more cautious. He says: "It really depends on each individual case as to whether they have received a service which would breach MCOB rules. It is an issue that may be raised before district judges [deciding repossession cases].

"If it develops wholesale, it devalues the meritous cases that exist. The courts will soon become familiar with these arguments and will then require the borrowers to produce evidence at an early stage. to root out frivolous or unsubstantiated allegations."

Though there may be concern some borrowers might try to exploit the MCOB rule without good cause, there appear to be many cases of people being mis-sold mortgages they could not afford.

A Citizens Advice report entitled Set Up to Fail, on the sub-prime lending market in 2007, found the charity's repossession clients had often found themselves with "inappropriate and unaffordable" mortgages and secured loans, and that people buying council houses received "particularly poor advice".

One case it highlighted concerned a couple with a disabled child in south-east Wales who were persuaded to take a second mortgage on their home. The loan wiped out their equity and meant £1,300 - 87% - of their £1,500 monthly income went on mortgage repayments.

The CML accepts the rulebook can be invoked by consumers. "The MCOB rules are there for a reason: to protect consumers," says spokeswoman Sue Anderson. "Consumers have 'the ability and right' to rely on these regulations if they believe they have not been dealt with correctly," she says.

In 2007, Cash highlighted how cold-callers were using dodgy selling tactics to convince social housing tenants to exercise their "right to buy" and saddle these low-income homes with inappropriate mortgages.

Although the Ombudsman found in Brown's favour, the issue remains complicated. The fos is charged with restoring people, as far as possible, to the situation they would otherwise have been in - and that is not straightforward in circumstances such as these.

"Historically, you may not have been worse off," says the fos spokeswoman, referring to the fact that when house prices were rising - until 2007 - people who had been mis-sold an unsuitable mortgage might not have lost out if the price of their house was rising. They would not have won compensation.

Now, the Ombudsman is having to work out how to compensate someone who has not been protected by the rise in property values.

Have you got a claim for mis-selling?

 

• If you are in financial difficulty, first try all other steps to resolve your crisis: talk to the lender as early as possible about arrears; seek advice from a debt charity; curb spending and draw up a tight budget; and try to boost your income.

• Be brutally honest: if you've been in any way economical with the truth in your mortgage application, such as overstating your income (whether unwittingly or not), your case will be much weaker.

• You could have a case if your mortgage adviser never explored affordability with you, or dealt with you in a superficial way. Advisers should rely on past figures for income and outgoings, says Philip Ryley of Michelmores. If they don't have them, then you're off to a strong start.

• You might have extra grounds for a case of mis-selling if your mortgage stretched beyond your retirement date and your adviser did not explore that as an affordability issue.

• A case based on what's known as mortgage "misrepresentation" might also be feasible. According to Ryley, this might be arguable if you were "given a very hard sell, or told everything good about the product and given no information about what would happen when interest rates went up". If misrepresentation is argued successfully, the contract can be rescinded - as a case in 1991 proved.

• To avoid the expense of lawyers' fees, a homeowner can make a claim with the individual who advised on the mortgage, and if the response is unsatisfactory take the case to the Financial ombudsman Service. The fos would probably request that your repossession proceedings are put on hold during any investigation.

• Even if your mortgage began before the MCOB was ushered in on 31 October 2004, the rules could still apply, says one lawyer who wishes not to be named. "It makes no difference as to when the loan was entered in to, for the purposes of the arrears rules," he says.

• Publicity about such cases will take time to filter out, as they are likely to be settled informally. But if people do start making claims in significant numbers, it could snowball, says one unnamed financial services lawyer. "What would be interesting would be a group action," he said.

[kurvaface]

Thanks

[ryde]

Ryde

 

your spot on I have read and it's full of get out clauses along the lines of oh well we know we should be doing something. But we probably won't. There's clear evidence of both here.

 

Lethargy? Ah that's where I've been going wrong. They're tired. As here was me thinking that they were in cahoots or simply incompetent!

 

EIE

the problem being if they(fsa) won't do what the mp's ask directly what chance do we have?they just agree to do things in their own timeframe and take months if not years to do it.

So from where do you suggest the pressure should be applied,keep lobbying mps or actually try to go to ministerial level.?

we need numbers at any level not the usual sit back and let others do it attitude from the many.

[enoughisenough]

So sorry Ryde

 

No cynicism intended...but it's just unbelievable that they are trying to sweep it under the carpet. I will try to avoid 'losing the faith'.

 

We keep going, round in circles if necessary, ...until we get a breakthrough.

[bustthematrix]

Cheers Ryde..

 

This thread is over 5500 posts long. My mortgage will be paid before i can read through that lot lol.

Successful a thread though its been, perhaps it's time for the mods to act on this. It IS getting awfully long, perhaps to the point of being self-defeating in that interested parties will find it harder to access the useful info they need amongst all the inevitable dross.

 

I would also suggest the thread title is too generic and so invites all sorts of losely related posts!

[ryde]

Btm

Have To Disagree.

All You Have To Do Is Type Your Query In The Search Facility Above And It Will Come Up.this Thread Is Encyclopedic In Its Knowledge Base Which Is Confined To This Particular Thread Alone On Many Of The Topics.

Just Learn How To Use The Search Facility. 10 Mins At Most.

[ryde]

Post 5509 Has Disappeared Now,whats Afoot?

[scedminc]

Hi All,

 

Has anyone else suddenly stopped getting email notifications when there is a new post on the thread or is it just me????

 

Sced

[ryde]

Sced

Just Notified About Yours

PERHAPS THERE ARE HACKERS AT WORK?

POSTS MYSTERIOUSLY DISAPPEARING WITHOUT ANY NOTIFICATION FROM CAGBOT ETC.

[ryde]

post 5509 concerned all the info previously posted re misselling which was previosly published in the press and relevant case law,can only think it was for repetition??

Rockets post re the Fos etc has been deleted here as well as the other thread.

Edited March 9, 2010 by ryde

[scedminc]

Hi Ryde,

 

Cheers for that. Strangely, I got a notification for your post but I swear I havent had any others for about three days.

 

Something definately strange going on.

 

Maybe the siteteam would like to comment on such strange occurances??

 

Sced

[eagleforms]

I have asked for the mods twice to let us know what is going on on rocket's thread and the same thing seems to be happening here, but they seem to be strangely quiet. Odd isn't it.

[rocket1]

While it is odd enough that posts are disappearing, it is completely bizarre the mods/site team are completely silent in response to the various bleats from Caggers about it. I, too have contacted the site team asking what is going on and not heard a peep out of them yet.

 

It seems quite sinister really !

[scedminc]

It seems quite clear to me that their silence can only mean one thing!!

 

Sced

[rocket1]

Forgive me for being thick. But what would that one thing be ?

 

Would it be they are concerned about libel ? If so why can't they tell us.

 

Is it because some nutcase is at work. Ditto, why can't they tell us.

 

It could be almost anything.

 

Which only goes to show how immature and silly pathological witholders of information are and how they cause nothing but problems for everyone.

Edited March 9, 2010 by rocket1

[bustthematrix]

Btm

Have To Disagree.

All You Have To Do Is Type Your Query In The Search Facility Above And It Will Come Up.this Thread Is Encyclopedic In Its Knowledge Base Which Is Confined To This Particular Thread Alone On Many Of The Topics.

Just Learn How To Use The Search Facility. 10 Mins At Most.

 

Ok then Ryde. Perhaps you can help me out...what exactly is this thread about?

 

I'm not saying it hasn't been great, and that there aren't lots of really useful posts herein. There are. And therein lies my point. Who should and who shouldn't be posting on here?

[jetli]

Hi All,

 

Has anyone else suddenly stopped getting email notifications when there is a new post on the thread or is it just me????

 

Sced

Well my computer at home and at work if I sign on to here has been crashin????

[freedomofspeech]

I know of someone who has ben e mailing the site team for ages and not getting any answer back. perhaps this is now a ghost site sailing the net like the Marie Celeste, or are we the pirates?Why is it you never get a straight answer from Capstone? If you e mail them all you get is the stock reply that they cannot reply via e mail as its not secure! Well most other companies manage. This is obviously just anoither delaying tactic by this band of thieves