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    • Please see my comments in orange within your post.
    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.   House or Flat? Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. Lenders have a legal obligation to sell the property for the best price they can get. If they feel the offer is low they won't sell it, because it's likely the borrower will say the same. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Again, points as above. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) Why serve a delapidations notice? If it's in the terms of the lease to maintain the property to a good standard, then serve an S146 notice instead as it's a clear breach of the lease. I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. Enfranchisement isn't something that can be "voided", it's in the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 that leaseholders have the right to buy the freehold of the property. It's normal, whether it is a "normal" leaseholder or a repossession with a leasehold house, to claim this right of enfranchisement and sell the property with said rights attached and the purchase price of the freehold included in the final completion price. That's likely what the mortgage provider wished to do. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Redact and scan said evidence up for others to look at? Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. So this is dealt with then. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.  You wouldn't vary a lease through a lease extension. You'd need a Deed of Variation for that. This may be done at the same time but the lease has already been extended once and that's all they have a right to. The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved. The lease has already been extended once so they have no right to another extension. It seems pretty easy to just get the lawyer to say no and stick by those terms as the law is on your side there. Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. Again, order them to revert it as they didn't have permission to do the works, or else serve an S146 notice for breach of the lease. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Admiral insurance indemnity form


kernal211313
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Hi. I was recently involved in a car accident when driving to pick my boyfriend. I was then planning on taking him to his place of work before returning him. I informed Admiral immediately.

 

The third party has put in a personal injury claim. Admiral are now asking me to sign an indemnity form as the car was for social use only. Should I dispute this or ask for additional assurances.  

 

Is it likely they will allow me to agree a repayment plan?

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Hi and Welcome to CAG

 

I have moved your topic to the relevant forum ...Car Insurance...Financial Legal Issues is for court claims re credit cards/ loans/overdrafts etc

 

Please continue to post here to your topic.

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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We could do with some help from you.

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Do not sign the indemnity form, as it is giving a blank cheque.

 

This reply presumes you are the policyholder.

 

So you were not commuting to your work, but were simply driving someone from your address to another address ?

 

So you could argue social use, as you were not driving to your workplace. 

 

I will have a more detailed look later and reply further. But please clarify.

 

If your policy, Is your boyfriend on the policy, as a named driver ?

We could do with some help from you.

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My boyfriend is not on the policy as a named driver. They contacted me around three weeks after the accident to ask what I was doing at the time and that they believed I was commuting. I told them exactly what I was doing, driving from A to B to get my boyfriend who I was then going to drive to his place of work before returning home. 

Edited by kernal211313
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Read your documents. Does it state anywhere that you are not covered if you drive a friend or neighbour to their workplace ?

 

Commuting exclusion is about you and you driving to your workplace to work ?

 

Do you work at the same place as boyfriend ?

 

If so, can you ask employers to confirm you were not working on the date/time ?

We could do with some help from you.

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It doesn't state anything about driving my friends or partner to work and we don't work at the same workplace.

 

As I have flexible working hours I catch the train to work later on in the day. Unfortunately, as it's flexible hours it's difficult to prove what time I started work.

 

A few things worth noting. They haven't canceled my insurance as it's still active. Also, they recently sent me my renewal letter with a slightly increased premium so seem to be fine with insuring me in the future.

 

The letter states that they may be required to deal with the county court claim that would be issued against me as an Article 75 insurer. They would only do this after a CCJ was placed against me. They would then seek to reclaim the costs from me. Surely they are responsible for paying the third party before I am taken to court? They state that if I sign this form that will avoid me having a CCJ placed against me.

 

This is turning into a complete nightmare for me as I am on a low income and I was only using the car for a ten minute round trip when the accident happened :(

Edited by kernal211313
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I think you need to write a letter to Admiral head of claims, complaining about one of their claims handlers getting the wrong end of the stick, causing them to make assumptions were are totally incorrect.

 

Something  like this.  Send urgently by recorded delivery.

 

 I wish to complain about the way my claim is being handled and the misunderstanding by one of your claims handlers.

 

On x date/time I was driving to pick up my boyfriend and to take him home. With the plan to later drive him to his work place on this occasion.   The accident did not occur during any journey which involved commuting to any work place.

 

As such on the date/time in question, I was using my vehicle for social purposes and not for commuting to my place of work or to any place of work. Therefore any exclusion for commuting to my workplace is totally irrelevant.  I understand that my cover is for social use and I do not use my vehicle to commute to my workplace. I use the train to get to work.

 

I will therefore not be completing any indemnity form and it is up to Admiral to settle any claim, in line with the terms and condition of cover that I have paid for.  If this matter is not dealt with correctly, I will have no alternative but to ask Admiral for their final response and continue the complaint with the Financial Ombudsman Service,

 

I look forward to your swift response, with a suitable apology.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

Admiral have no choice but to deal with the third party claim under Road Traffic act, so any claim you receive,  please come back for advice.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks for the help. I feel better already. :) 

 

I am correct in thinking it's weird that they seem perfectly happy to carry on insuring me and sending renewal letters, while at the same time saying I have used my car for purposes not covered by my insurance? Or is this common?

 

Also, is it just bluster to say they will let the third party get a ccj against me before paying out as they are an article 75 insurer? 

 

Thanks again for the help :)

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When you completed the details for insurance did you state that the vehicle was for social and commuting use or social only  ? 

We could do with some help from you.

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You have not been dishonest.  Had you been driving to your work place, you would simply be a policyholder that had not read your Insurance documents.   So no reason not to issue a renewal.

 

If you take out a social cover with no commuting, you have to be very careful. The reason for the exclusion, is that people who drive their vehicles to work are a higher risk, as they will park their car for hours in allsorts of places and they can get damaged.  Also driving while commuting in traffic you are more likely to have an accident.

 

If you say it is social only, then it presumes that the car is mostly  sat on your driveway or in a garage and therefore it is a safer risk with a lower premium as a result.

We could do with some help from you.

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https://www.admiral.com/magazine/guides/car-insurance/which-class-of-use

 

So you as the policyholder and only driver named on the Insurance, cannot use social cover to commute.  Which is why i asked you to check the policy to see if it also extended the commuting exclusion to other people.   I have not come across an Insurers excluding a driver occasionally giving a lift to a friend.   Say for example your neighbour was a vicar and could not get to their Church, so you gave them a lift.  Are Admiral saying that you would not be covered ?  I do not think so.

Social Domestic and Pleasure

The class of use described as Social, Domestic and Pleasure covers the drivers named on the policy for normal day to day driving. Shopping, visiting friends or family and pleasure driving such as going to the park or on holiday. However, it doesn't include commuting to work.

Commuting

Commuting is the next class up, and covers everything included in Social, Domestic and Pleasure, plus driving to and from a permanent place of work. Driving your car to the train station and leaving it there while you go to work counts as commuting. So does giving someone a lift to their place of work; it's best to check when you get your quote.

We could do with some help from you.

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"So does giving someone a lift to their place of work; it's best to check when you get your quote."

 

Surely that is why they are saying I was using the car for purposes not covered by my level of insurance then?

Edited by kernal211313
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So does giving someone a lift to their place of work; it's best to check when you get your quote

 

So where is this stated in your policy document ?  

 

Have a really good read of your documents and come back before you send the letter or do anything.

 

The limit of the social cover is normally noted on the certificate of Insurance.

We could do with some help from you.

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Quote

 I was recently involved in a car accident when driving to pick my boyfriend. I was then planning on taking him to his place of work before returning him

 

Its a pity you didn't stop after stating when driving to pick up my boyfriend "  you had an accident so the second part never happened " I was then planning on taking him to his place of work before returning him "

 

Therfore you didn't use the vehicle to commute......picking up boyfriend is social use......the commute use part never happened...but you have told them now your intended journey and so they have a get out.

We could do with some help from you.

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Andy, that is a valid point, as the purpose of the journey was to eventually drive to a place of work.

 

Still think it is an arguable point. 

 

But I cannot see the certificate of insurance and are relying on what they are reading.  If Admiral exclude all commuting even driving a friend, neighbour etc to work, then it is very limiting.  I think such an exclusion would be designed to limit risk of one of a couple regularly driving their partner to work.

We could do with some help from you.

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The only reference I can find is social, domestic and pleasure only.

 

I feared by being open and honest I have given them the get out they were looking for :(

 

I guess this means I have to sign the indemnity and pray they will accept a payment plan?

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Can you upload a copy of the certificate of Insurance with all of the personal info removed ?

We could do with some help from you.

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The vehicle was involved in an accident under social use......picking up boyfriend...the rest never happened as the car had halted....really does not matter what was intended...it never happened....but you will learn from this moving forward and ditch that outfit...your paying for their nauseating TV advert budget

We could do with some help from you.

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Don't give in yet.  

 

You really must read the documents and upload a copy of the certificate to this thread if possible.  Looking for exclusion which says you are not covered if driving someone to their place of work.

 

You could say that you misspoke and that you were simply picking up your boyfriend from A to B and the accident was not connected to any commuting to work purpose.  

 

But don't tell porkies, if you normally pick him up and then drive to and back from his work. The call would have been recorded and during the call they should have read back the information you were providing them and asked you to confirm it was accurate.  So if they listen back and you have changed your story, they will most likely go with what you told them originally, unless you can provide evidence to the contrary.  

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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It's not a regular trip and I never told them it was. Looking back now the claim handler was acting in an underhanded way but I was just trying to be honest and helpful. Certificate of motor insurance makes no reference to dropping others at a place of work.

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