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    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
    • Euro have got a lot wrong and have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  According to Section 13 after ECP have written to Arval they should then send a NTH to the Hirer  which they have done.This eliminates Arval from any further pursuit by ECP. When they wrote to your company they should have sent copies of everything that they asked Arval for. This is to prove that your company agree what happened on the day of the breach. If ECP then comply with the Act they are allowed to pursue the hirer. If they fail, to comply they cannot make the hirer pay. They can pursue until they are blue in the face but the Hirer is not lawfully required to pay them and if it went to Court ECP would lose. Your company could say who was driving but the only person that can be pursued is the Hirer, there does not appear to be an extension for a driver to be pursued. Even if there was, because ECP have failed miserably to comply with the Act  they still have no chance of winning in Court. Here are the relevant Hire sections from the Act below.
    • Thank-you FTMDave for your feedback. May I take this opportunity to say that after reading numerous threads to which you are a contributor, I have great admiration for you. You really do go above and beyond in your efforts to help other people. The time you put in to help, in particular with witness statements is incredible. I am also impressed by the way in which you will defer to others with more experience should there be a particular point that you are not 100% clear on and return with answers or advice that you have sought. I wish I had the ability to help others as you do. There is another forum expert that I must also thank for his time and patience answering my questions and allowing me to come to a “penny drops” moment on one particular issue. I believe he has helped me immensely to understand and to strengthen my own case. I shall not mention who it is here at the moment just in case he would rather I didn't but I greatly appreciate the time he took working through that issue with me. I spent 20+ years of working in an industry that rules and regulations had to be strictly adhered to, indeed, exams had to be taken in order that one had to become qualified in those rules and regulations in order to carry out the duties of the post. In a way, such things as PoFA 2012 are rules and regulations that are not completely alien to me. It has been very enjoyable for me to learn these regulations and the law surrounding them. I wish I had found this forum years ago. I admit that perhaps I had been too keen to express my opinions given that I am still in the learning process. After a suitable period in this industry I became Qualified to teach the rules and regulations and I always said to those I taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. If opinions, theories and observations are put forward, discussion can take place and as long as the result is that the student is able to clearly see where they went wrong and got to that moment where the penny drops then that is a valuable learning experience. No matter how experienced one is, there is always something to learn and if I did not know the answer to a question, I would say, I don't know the answer to that question but I will go and find out what the answer is. In any posts I have made, I have stated, “unless I am wrong” or “as far as I can see” awaiting a response telling me what I got wrong, if it was wrong. If I am wrong I am only too happy to admit it and take it as a valuable learning experience. I take the point that perhaps I should not post on other peoples threads and I shall refrain from doing so going forward. 🤐 As alluded to, circumstances can change, FTMDave made the following point that it had been boasted that no Caggers, over two years, who had sent a PPC the wrong registration snotty letter, had even been taken to court, let alone lost a court hearing .... but now they have. I too used the word "seemed" because it is true, we haven't had all the details. After perusing this forum I believe certain advice changed here after the Beavis case, I could be wrong but that is what I seem to remember reading. Could it be that after winning the above case in question, a claimant could refer back to this case and claim that a defendant had not made use of the appeal process, therefore allowing the claimant to win? Again, in this instance only, I do not know what is to be gained by not making an appeal or concealing the identity of the driver, especially if it is later admitted that the defendant was the driver and was the one to input the incorrect VRN in error. So far no one has educated me as to the reason why. But, of course, when making an appeal, it should be worded carefully so that an error in the appeal process cannot be referred back to. I thought long and hard about whether or not to post here but I wanted to bring up this point for discussion. Yes, I admit I have limited knowledge, but does that mean I should have kept silent? After I posted that I moved away from this forum slightly to find other avenues to increase my knowledge. I bought a law book and am now following certain lawyers on Youtube in the hope of arming myself with enough ammunition to use in my own case. In one video titled “7 Reasons You Will LOSE Your Court Case (and how to avoid them)” by Black Belt Barrister I believe he makes my point by saying the following, and I quote: “If you ignore the complaint in the first instance and it does eventually end up in court then it's going to look bad that you didn't co-operate in the first place. The court is not going to look kindly on you simply ignoring the company and not, let's say, availing yourself of any kind of appeal opportunities, particularly if we are talking about parking charge notices and things like that.” This point makes me think that, it is not such a bizarre judgement in the end. Only in the case of having proof of payment and inputting an incorrect VRN .... could it be worthwhile making a carefully worded appeal in the first instance? .... If the appeal fails, depending on the reason, surely this could only help if it went to court? As always, any feedback gratefully received.
    • To which official body does one make a formal complaint about a LPA fixed charge receiver? Does one make a complaint first to the company employing the appointed individuals?    Or can one complain immediately to an official body, such as nara?    I've tried researching but there doesn't seem a very clear route on how to legally hold them to account for wrongful behaviour.  It seems frustratingly complicated because they are considered to be officers of the court and held in high esteem - and the borrower is deemed liable for their actions.  Yet what does the borrower do when disclosure shows clear evidence of wrong-doing? Does anyone have any pointers please?
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CTAX and parking fine debts and bailiffs advice please


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Hi I’m new here so not sure if I’m posting in the right place! 


Long story short

 

I separated from my now ex husband 2 years ago he ran off and did the dirty after 20 years marriage 3 children and left me with a load of debt unfortunately all in my name £33,000 in total now being a single parent and only being able to work part time

 

as my youngest has special needs 

my income really is mainly from benefits 

he receives dla high rate and full mobility because of his medical needs.

Its a very big struggle especially trying to pay everything run a home and 3 children 

going without all the time 

 

added stress with

debt collectors and now

bailiffs for council tax,

shop direct account and

a parking fine hadn’t realised mobility badge had expired! 


I’ve read loads of advice on here  and am considering filing bankruptcy 

 

my question is

can these bailiff debts be included in a bankruptcy or can they still chase me for the money. 


I just can’t see a way out at all what I owe will take me years and years to pay back 


life is so stressful 😢

thank you in advance for any advice given.

sorry it’s a little long winded! 

 

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forget the DCA's

forget the shop direct CAT debts they are not a priority - drop them to £1PCM!!

start another thread for those but NO you don't need to go BK/DRO/IVA for consumer credit.

 

you must deal with the debts with the bailiffs lets use this thread for that.

what stage are you at

have you had a notice of enforcement yet?

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to CTA and bailiffs advice

Hi thanks for replying so quick 

Had  payment plans set up they keep demanding more money I’ve sent them my monthly expenditure that shows everything and what I have to live on 

never aloud them into my home 

Xmas came I missed a payment so partly my own fault just didn’t want the kids going without! 
 

 

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That's very understandable at Christmas. Don't start blaming herself. I think you're doing very well under the circumstances.

Which bailiffs are you dealing with here? Which company?

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  • dx100uk changed the title to CTAX and parking fine debts and bailiffs advice please

Sorry, what is "mans 1" mean?

Have you contacted Rossendale's? Have you told them that you are vulnerable and that you have very difficult circumstances? I think you should do that first thing tomorrow.

Have you contacted your local council? Have you told them that you are vulnerable? I think also you should do that tomorrow. I think you should explain how difficult it is and also that there is a disability apart from the fact that you are a single parent and you are struggling even with priority debts.

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I've had lots of experience with this unfortunately and the best way to deal with it

 

Use your local Councillor, find their details on Google, Call and email them. They will get the bailiffs off your back immediately and either give you a break from payments or an affordable arrangement.

 

You should be classified as vulnerable too, come back here to tell us how it went

We could do with some help from you.

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But in addition, I suggest that you call Rossendale's immediately and explain your vulnerability. Do this in addition to the councillor.

The councillor might take a little longer but it is more likely to be a permanent fix. However, if you explain the situation to Rossendale's, you may be able to get a short-term remedy – quickly.

Do both – belt and braces

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Yes to the above too. My wife was on Chemo,  when B&S had our Council Tax, and we were 2 years behind.  The bailiffs did ignore us, but the collections dept called them off.

We could do with some help from you.

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I spoke to rossendales by telephone 2 weeks ago 

they are aware of my vulnerability  

 

one is for £225.00 and I’ve got to pay that in full

was due on the 27th just gone

 

I told them I wouldn’t have that amount but they wouldn’t except anything less

told them I knew I would break it to that had no response 

 

the second amount is the bigger one 995.00 paid 25.00 yesterday as agreed

I have to call back to arrange to pay more next month as the other one should have been paid in full by then 

 

should I just pay what I can afford on the missed payment one?  

they put me off calling because of how bullyish they are so thinking maybe right a letter.

 

with all my other debt and the amount I owe and the stress it’s causing that’s why I’ve thought maybe bankruptcy

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Well in that case certainly follow the advice given by site team member @London1971 and who happens. I think you are correct to write a letter to Rossendale is to put it very firmly on record that not only are you vulnerable but also that you have tried to contact them and that they haven't followed their vulnerability guidelines

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I had the best results from my local councillor always, I also copied in the elected head of the council too, who really had my back too.  

 

These are people who hate poverty and want to help.  A lot of them really don't like bailiffs

 

 

 

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We could do with some help from you.

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2 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

Well in that case certainly follow the advice given by site team member @London1971 and who happens. I think you are correct to write a letter to Rossendale is to put it very firmly on record that not only are you vulnerable but also that you have tried to contact them and that they haven't followed their vulnerability guidelines

Thank you I will get onto letter writing this evening 

mane again thank you for the advice I will check back with my outcome 

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Make sure you renew the Blue badge for the disabled child, and display it in any car, the |bailiffs might try to take control of it Do you have a Motability Vehicle for them? as they are not allowed to seize them, also they have No Right Of Entry for Council tax. but will clamp a car, but aren't allowed to clamp a Motability Lease vehicle .

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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I’ve renewed it now had such a lot going on the past couple of years my heads been all over the place not to mention sleepless nights 

 

yes we have a mobility car thank goodness! 


thank you for your advice 

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Councillor should be able to work very quickly to get them off your back. Make sure you call as well as Email.  They have huge powers, that can override Revenue Collections and Bailiffs.

 

Make this your number one priority.

We could do with some help from you.

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Definitely good advice London1971, the council wouldn't like more evidence of how the council Revenue dept and theit bailiffs treat impoverished can't pays  if it leaked into the press, plus was punted at election time to bite the councillor on the bum, so the Councillor will want to sort this pronto If this was a Council Parking ticket and ther was entitlement to the BB, might be worth asking if the Councillor can help you get the parking one quashed as £305 of that one will be the bailiffs fees.

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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just so you understand the complete bailiff picture here a bit more clearly, as you appear to be p'haps falling for some of the things bailiff regularly intimate or threaten as the truth, just to scare you...

 

your priority here is the fine.

so might be best to concentrate on that one.

that could go south, but its VERY rare for magistrates to grant forced entry.

but they can't add anymore charges than they already have.

 

as for the CTAX one.

you get charged £75 with the Notice of Enforcement giving you 7 days to settle.

then there is a visit, that costs another £235 in fees , making a total of £310.

that is ALL they can add to that one.

there is NO right of forced entry with CTAX.

 

so don't fall for the threats on either one of you must pay more/i'm gonna do this etc etc.

 

now are you paying these, can you do so without further ringing the bailiffs themselves and getting threatened?

 

as for the other debts you speak of.

as I said earlier, drop them down to £1PCM there nowt they can do, they are not a priority.

give yourself a financial buffer to better deal with getting these bailiff ones off you back.

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yup I got my Bailiff fees cancelled but not the liability order.

 

I ended up paying everything back by earnings attachment, a few years later. It took 3 years to pay it off!

 

But by that time my situation had improved and it wasn’t a problem

We could do with some help from you.

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@CharlieBB If you need help wording an email to your councillor , let me know, I will send you a template.

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We could do with some help from you.

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Message sent.  

 

Bear in mind it was a slightly different problem to you.  The council had simply ignored the problem.  The councillor sorted it out within an hour and I had an affordable amount to pay.

 

It's also worth you explaining that you have medical and motability certificates  if necessary.

 

Let me know how you get on

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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