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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
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VCS PCN Claimform - no stopping - spycar CCTV - Liverpool Airport "offence"


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As long as you did AOS as i advised earlier, you have a total of 33 days whereby date on claimform is ONE in the count.

 

this was explained carefully in the Q&A you filled in in the 1st place and in my AOS/cpr post.

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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On 08/11/2021 at 19:22, Hobnail said:

Name of the Claimant : VCS

 

Claimants Solicitors: ELMS LEGAL

 

Date of issue – 4 NOV 2021

 

Date for AOS – 22 NOV 2021

 

Date to submit Defence – 6 DEC 2021

 

What is the claim for –

 

1. A breach of contract for breaching the terms and conditions set on private land.

 

2.Defendants vehicle was identified in Liverpool John Lennon Airport on 30/08/2019 in breach of the advertised terms and conditions; namely Stopping in a zone where stopping is prohibited .

 

3.At all material times the defendant was the registered keeper and/or the driver.

 

4.The terms and conditions upon entering private lane were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent locations. The sign was the offer and the act of entering private land was the acceptance of the offer hereby entering into a contract by conduct.

 

5.The signs specifically detail the terms and conditions and the consequences of failure to comply, namely a parking charge notice will be issued, and the defendant has failed to settle the outstanding liability.

 

6.claimant seeks the recovery of the parking charge notice , contractual costs and interest.

 

What is the value of the claim?

 

Amount Claimed £160

court fees £35

legal rep fees £50

Total Amount  £245

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yes got it Aos was done so we are okay until the 6th of December.

 

I'll throw a defence together using something from the forum for the MCOL Defence Particulars box and post it here to get some feedback.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Found this.................

 

1.  It is admitted that Defendant is the recorded keeper of [motor vehicle].

 

2.   As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.  The Claimant was only contracted to provide car park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner.  Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim.  The proper claimant is the landowner

 

3.  It is denied that the Defendant breached any terms and conditions set on private land.

 

4.  It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant, or broke any such contract.

 

5.  The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

 

Please delete the one above.

 

How is this?

 

It is admitted that Defendant is the recorded keeper of [motor vehicle].

 

The driver of the vehicle had not been established. None of the photos give any indication of who was driving.

 

It is denied that the Defendant breached any terms and conditions set on private land.

 

It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant, or broke any such contract.

 

The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

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nope use our std 3 -5 line defence in every no stopping thread already here.

 

dx

 

30 minutes ago, Hobnail said:

Found this.................

 

1.  It is admitted that Defendant is the recorded keeper of [motor vehicle].

 

2.   As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.  The Claimant was only contracted to provide car park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner.  Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim.  The proper claimant is the landowner

 

3.  It is denied that the Defendant breached any terms and conditions set on private land.

 

4.  It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant, or broke any such contract.

 

5.  The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

thats the one!!

 

whatever made you think the other was correct. not searching outside of CAG are we...:pound:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Confused now.

 

I was right first time? or second time?

 

So many pages to trawl through trying to find a relevant one. Both are off the forum and not from anywhere else though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First one methinks as I edited one for the second attempt.

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I think poss the 2nd might have been from a very old thread, things have moved on

 

but please let the experts check and advise....youve a few days yet

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Ok I'm going to post this on the MCOL website as my Defence Particulars.

 

1.  It is admitted that Defendant is the recorded keeper of [motor vehicle].

 

2.   As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.  The Claimant was only contracted to provide car park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner.  Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim.  The proper claimant is the landowner

 

3.  It is denied that the Defendant breached any terms and conditions set on private land.

 

4.  It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant, or broke any such contract.

 

5.  The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

 

Is there anything else I should doing?

 

I did receive a letter from ELMS over the weekend regarding my CPR 31.14 request.

 

They only sent me 3 photos of my partners car stopped at the airport and 5 of the PCN's from VCS.

 

So none of the document requested in our last letter.

 

Should I post it up?

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No that's more than enough, Less is More at this stage, its only a skeleton Defence needed real meat comes at Witness Statement stage if it gets that far.  Just hold fire until a couple of the other's looks in.

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Always best scan up anything they send to one mass pdf.

you never know wholl spot what

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I don't do a counter claim do i?

 

What about any aditional details on the MCOL form.

 

They have partners name, addres and d.o.b only.

 

cheers

 

 

So here is the latest letter from Elms responding to my CPR 31.14 request.

 

They also sent me 3 photos of my partners car stopped at the airport and 5 or 6 of the PCN's from VCS.

 

Plus copies of my snotty letter to them and a copy of VCS's letter to us telling us Elms will be dealing with it.

 

I haven't posted them as the PCN's are already in the thread and the letters are just copies.

 

They cannot send requested documents as they don't exsist. No contract.

 

Cheers

 

 

elms reply to CPR.pdf

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no you never counterclaim no. you've not seen that mentioned here either.

 

please try and remember to use pdfmerge website , ive merged single pages for you above again.

 

34 minutes ago, Hobnail said:

What about any additional details on the MCOL form.

 

They have partners name, address and d.o.b only.

 

cheers

not sure what you mean?

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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NO!!

the only people you dont give those too are the fleecers.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Give full details to mcol

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

not for a good few weeks/months if at all.

 

however the court will write upon whats next and should ACK your defence filing.

 

no harm in you reading as many no stopping 

threads as you can HERE.

 

then you'll know what MIGHT be to come and how to deal IF it does progress through the various stages of the claim.

however as always, dont ever do anything toward anyone without check here 1st 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Okay so last week we received the N180 from from the C.Court.

 

Proposed allocation to the small claims tracks.

 

Reading the other threads I can see I respond with the following.

 

Mediation - NO

 

Small claims Track - YES

 

Hearing venue - leave blank as they will sent me to my local c.court?

 

Expert evidence - NO

 

Witnesses - ONE

 

Hearing - NO

 

If these are correct my other half should sign and send back to northampton?

 

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No you state your local court

 

and yes to a hearing...you dont want a papers only decision.

 

3 copies

1 to the court

1 to there are using one (omit phone/sig/email

1 for you file

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Please

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That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

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