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    • Which Court have you received the claim from ? Civil National Business CEntre Name of the Claimant ? Lowell Portfolio i Ltd How many defendant's  joint or self ? Self   Date of issue –  15 Feb 2024 Particulars of Claim What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?  The claim is for the sum of £922 due by the Defendant under and agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for a Capital One account with an account reference of [number with 16 digits] The Defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required by the agreement and a Default Notice was served under s.87(1) of the Consumer Credit ACt 1974 which has not been complied with. The debt was legally assigned to the claimant on 16-06-23, notice of which has been given to the defendant. The claim includes statutory interest under S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of the issue of these proceedings in the sum of £49.15 The Claimant claims the sum of £972 What is the total value of the claim? £1112 Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? I dont know the details of the PAPDC to know if it was pursuant to paragraph 3, but I did receive a Letter of Claim with a questionaire/form to fill. Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? no Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Assigned/purchaser Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? I was aware, I'm not certain I received a 'Notice of Assignment' from Capital One but may have been informed the account had been sold without such a title on the letter? Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Not since the debt purchase, and not from Capital One. Why did you cease payments? I can't remember - it was the tail end of the pandemic and I may not have had enough income to keep up payments - I am self-employed and work in the event industry - at that time. I also had a bank account that didn't allow direct debits and may have just forgotten payments and became annoyed at fines for late payments. What was the date of your last payment? Appears to be 20/4/2022 Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No Here is my Defence: Defence - 1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had an agreement with Capital One but do not recognise this specific account number or recollect any outstanding debt and have therefore requested clarification by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request.. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am unaware of having been served with a Default Notice pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925 Section 136(1) 5. The Defendant has sent a request by way of a section 78 pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974, for a copy of the agreement, the Claimant has yet to comply and remains in default of said request. 6. A further request has been made via CPR 31.14 to the Claimants solicitor, requesting disclosure of documents on which the Claimant is basing their claim. The Claimant has not complied and to date nothing has been received. 7. It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to: a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement and; b) show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed for and; c) show the nature of the breach and evidence by way of a Default Notice pursuant to sec 88 CCA1974 d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim 8. As per Civil Procedure 16.5 it is expected that the claimants prove the allegation that the money is owed 9. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of section 136 of the Law of Property Act and section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 10. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. .................. Please note that I had to write a defence quite quickly as I hit the deadline. At the time of writing the defence, I hadn't been able to find correspondence from Capital One, but had since found default letter etc. I submitted CCA request and CPR 31.14. However, I didn't get any proof of postage or use registered post for the CPR (an oversight) but did with the CCA request. I received a pack which included a letter from Overdales, going over the defence I'd filed, as well as letters of Lowells and reprints of letters from Capital One. But I have no idea if this pack is in response to the CCA request or the CPR ! I would have expected two separate responses ... although I do know they are both the same company. Looking over the pack today, and looking through old emails .. I find some discrepancies in the Capital One default letters (notice of default and Claim of default). They are both dated *before* an email I have stating that a default can be avoided. The one single page of agreement sent (so not the full agreement) has a 16 digit number at the top in small print, next to 'Capital One' which corresponds to a number called 'PURN' printed at the top of each of the 10 pages of ins and outs of the account (they're not official statements, but a list of monthly goings) yet no mention anywhere on either of the account number. I cant really scan them at the moment - I can later tomorrow, but that will be after the mediation call I'm sure. I guess I may be on my own for this mediation ... I am not certain the CCA request has been satisfied .. or if the CPR has been . And then I appear to have evidence that the Default notices provided are fabricated ? Yet, I do have (elsewhere ... not at home) Default letters from Capital One I can check ..
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Harlands make a system error and I'm being charged


pamziaw
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Hi everyone. I could really use some help with this nightmare.

 

I opened a GymEtc membership about 4 months ago. Somehow during the process the membership application got duplicated and i ended up being double charged for 2 accounts.

 

I stopped the duplicate account direct debit, then get an aggressive letter from Harlands. I called them, explained the situation and they said they would close the duplicate account and refund the 2 payments.

 

4 weeks went by and I got no refund.

When I contacted them again they said it had been initially rejected by GymEtc, then processed but still didn't make it to me or my bank.

 

At this point I said i would collect the refund from my bank and contacted them to reverse the 2 direct debits on my duplicate account.

 

I was very specific and gave the references and dates.

They instead reversed 3 payments on the active direct debit then cancelled it.

 

After this happened I called the bank and they admitted the error and reactivated the correct direct debit.

 

I then called Harlands to pay the 3rd payment which should not have been refunded but they told me they could not take payment as this was not showing on the account.

 

They told me they would watch the account and now call me when they could take payment. They also stated they would mark the account to not be charged.

 

Another couple weeks go by and Harlands send aggressive correspondence. I call again to ask if i owe them and am told again that I don't own any money.

 

Today they send me a letter saying I owe 2 admin fees of £25 each plus a membership payment. If i don't contact their customer care then my account will be sent to debt collection.

 

I'm on my lunch hour, I have called them 7 times.

I waited 20 minutes at one point for them to pick up, when they did, the person cut me off just after I finished the above long explanation.

 

I am at my wits end and I now want them to terminate the contract with no fees. What are my options for resolving this now?

Edited by dx100uk
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Stop panicking

Stop ring them!!

 

Theres nothing they can do

A DCA is not a BAILIFF

And have ZERO legal powers

 

Are you wishing to use the gym?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Nope

 

Go read a few threads

Youll get the idea

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I would also begin a formal complaint to the bank. I'm sure you will get a decent gesture of Goodwill from them for this error.

 

Are you recording all your calls? You seem to be doing a lot of this on the phone. Have you read our customer services guide

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there is no point in giving up your gym membership if the only reason is that you are angry with them.

just because I make a mistake, there is no reason for them to damage your quality of life. Instead you should put a claim in to them as well for the problems they have caused and I would have thought it would be worth 2 or 3 free months membership although don't expect them to be happy about it all very co-operative but if you fancy a bit of fight then we will help you

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I have some time to sort things this afternoon so in summary:

 

- Complaint to the bank

- Complaint to GymEtc

- Don't contact Harlands by phone anymore? Should i do anything with Harlands at this point?

- Should I attempt to cancel on any of the grounds in the gym cancellation articles? I could do moved jobs as I have changed jobs in the last 4 weeks.

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Bank yes

 

Gym harlands

Unless you feel they owe you

Id leave well alone

 

You could cancel and then write to harlands with the usual slick132 letter offering 1 month but no fees

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Not sure where gou are getting the notion that anyone can just rap up at your door and demand money...

Only a court bailiff can do that after you lose a cohrt case

Which gyms dont do court

 

A dca is a powerless muppet

Slick132 letters are on the homepage of this forum

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi Pam and Congrats for finally posting here on CAG 10 years after signing up :wink:

 

Bankfodder uses dictation software which often mistypes what is meant. I think the post above the post should read :-

 

just because they make a mistake, there is no reason for them to damage your quality of life. Instead you should put a claim in to them as well for the problems they have caused and I would have thought it would be worth 2 or 3 free months membership although don't expect them to be happy about it or very co-operative but if you fancy a bit of fight then we will help you

 

So you should write to the gym (if you want) saying you want to remain a member but need them to acknowledge the error they made causing you to be harassed by their agent, Harlands.

 

Tell them they need to get Harlands to stop making demands and threats about admin fees immediately.

 

Also tell them you want 3 months free membership to reflect their error and the threats and charges made by Harlands.

 

Ignore Harlands completely as BF says above and make written complaints to the bank and the gym. Post drafts here if you want them checked first.

 

Best advice for letters to bank and the gym is keep them short and very focused.

 

:-)

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Oh, and about what DX says .........

 

There are examples of my draft letters all over this forum but they're not on the homepage or in the Stckies (yet).

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

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Hi slick123, thanks for the response and thanks guys for your help with this. I called the bank last night who gave me £100 compensation for the issue. They opened a complaint and accepted liability as a banking error. They will be sending me a copy of the complaint in a couple days.

 

Regarding the gym and harlands. I do still owe the gym a payment of £23.99 which I’m totally fine with making to bring up to date but I do agree that 3 months free membership does seem like a nice idea. I’ll write the gym a letter tonight. In the mean time I’m concerned Harlands might just send the account to debt collectors anyway before they respond.

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Ok, first draft below. Let me know what you think:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear GymEtc

 

Accounts relating to this issue

XXXX - Live

XXXX - Duplicate

 

I write to you to raise a complaint at the highest level regarding the treatment I have received from yourselves and your agent, Harlands.

 

I joined your Gym around may/June 2018 and after joining I became aware than an error had occurred during the sign up process and my account had been duplicated. I was then double charged for 2 months by Harlands, 2 sets of direct debit payments were taken from my account each month, one in 1st June, one in July. I cancelled the duplicate direct debit at which point I received a threatening letter from Harlands demanding I reinstate the direct debit. I contacted Harlands around mid July to request a refund and explain the issue. They accepted the fault and agreed to close the duplicate account and refund.

 

Five weeks went by and I did not receive a refund. I contacted Harlands again who stated the refund was rejected by GymEtc in the first instance, then agreed in the second. They then stated it was released on 27th July and I should continue to wait. I stated this was 3 weeks ago and clearly there was a problem with their refund procedure. I stated I would now take this up with my bank and get a refund through them. The agent I spoke to at Harlands was called XXXX.

 

I contacted my bank and asked them to refund 2 payments from the account XXXX on 1st June and 2nd July. I was very specific about the payments and dates. The agent mishandled my request and instead refunded 3 payments from account XXXX and cancelled the direct debit on my live account which i did not request.

 

I contacted my bank the next day and they accepted there had been a mistake. They reinstated the direct debit. I contacted Harlands and spoke to an agent who refused to give her last name but was called ‘XXX’. I explained the situation to XX and stated I wanted to pay the £23.99 blench immediately, she stated the account was not showing as in arrears so she could not take payment. She advised me she would mark the account to not receive any admin fees and watch the account until it was possible to take the payment. She said she would call me to take payment when payment could be taken. She also told me to ignore all threatening correspondence as this would not be acted upon. I was never contacted by XXX or Harlands by phone regarding this.

 

Another 2 weeks went by and Harlands sent me 2 threatening letters. At the second I called Harlands again to ask what was happening in my account and stated I owed £23.99, 1 months payment. The agent I spoke to told me my account was up to date and no action was needed. This was on 17th August, I did not get the name of the agent I spoke to. I was advised not to worry and there was no action to be taken and no arrears to pay.

 

On 19th September I received another letter from Harlands, threatening me with debt collectors if I did not pay 3 admin fees plus the £23.99 I owed. They threatened to send the whole balance of the account to debt collectors if I did not contact them and pay immediately. I attempted to call Harlands 7 times on the 19th September to rectify this. My first call i waited 10 minutes and was cut off, the next 5 calls would not connect the call to Harlands customer service. The last call I waited 20 minutes to speak to someone, when i finally got through I explained the situation and asked for their help, they asked to put me on hold, then hung up on me. I did not get the agents name.

 

None of the above is my fault. Harlands are now harassing and threatening me. I would like the following resolution:

 

GymEtc to stop Harlands harassing me and from making demands for admin fees from me immediately

The £23.99 payment I owe waved

3 Months free membership

 

The letter from Harlands state they will pass my account to a debt collection agency 3rd october. As such I would like this resolution in place by 28th September, 8 days and 5 working days from writing of this letter.

 

Regards

User's name removed

 

Edit: Removed a name

Edited by slick132
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Far too much waffle

That will go straight in the round filing cabinet

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Debt collectors are totally powerless

Why are you worrying about them?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi Pam,

 

Way too long - the Gym will be asleep before the end of it !

 

Shorter version :-

 

Dear sir or madam,

 

Formal Complaint

 

I joined your gym in approx 5 months back but your staff made an error resulting in Harlands taking 2 x DD payments from me each moth.

 

In trying to resolve this, Harlands have been useless and are now harassing me for admin fees I do not owe.

 

If you want me to remain a member, I require that you instruct Harlands to make no further demands for m/ship arrears and/or their admin fees.

 

I further suggest you provide me with 3 months free m/ship to compensate for the errors and harassment from Harlands.

 

Unless you intervene to rectify this matter, I will consider my m/ship terminated immediately although I reserve the right to seek redress against your gym and/or Harlands jointly.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

:-)

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In the meantime ignore all comms from Harlands/CRS.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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Thanks for the comments. Been at work all today so haven't had a chance to reply. I shall take your advice and use your letter slick as I defer to your experience in this matter. Will get it printed and posted tomorrow.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Everyone.

Update on the situation.

I posted the letter on 21st.

I have the confirmation it arrived to them on the 24th (Which i have a receipt for and I've saved the page on the post office website showing it and the signature).

 

I've heard nothing further from them or Harlands since though I suspect I won't hear from Harlands until their deadline expires which i believe is 3rd October at which point they stated the account would be sent to debt collections.

 

What should my next move be if I get no response from the Gym?

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ignore

as you should have done from day one.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi Pam,

 

Just to remind you, Harlands "pass" cases on to CRS but Harlands/CRS are one and the same. There's no separate debt collection company at all.

 

Wait for the gym to reply and let us know if/when they do.

 

Ignore all comms from Harlands/CRS for now but keep us posted.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hey Slick

Today I got the letter from CRS demanding £490.09.

I see what you mean about them being one in the same.

Even the letter looks the same.

 

I've received no response from the gym at all.

They do have an old address for me on file but I gave my new one on the complaint letter.

I have the proof they received it.

 

Should I just continue to ignore and do nothing?

The Gym don't seem bothered about this.

I'm not bothered about going back, I've had enough of them and Harlands.

 

Pam

 

Edit:

I just noticed they have my most recent address on file which was listed as a different one for the account so somebody has made an update to my details.

Edited by dx100uk
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