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    • Makers of insect-based animal feed hope to be able to compete with soybeans on price.View the full article
    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
    • well post it here as a text in a the msg reply half of it is blanked out. dx  
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VCS ANPR PCN Claimform - St Marys Gate retails park. Sheffield


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This is really difficult and i hope I've done it correctly!

 

Besides the witness statement and contract.(Uploaded)

A map of signage/single camera locations.

Pictures of all signages and locations.

 

Ive already uploaded the one at entrance and lack of in the disabled bay area.

Copy of NTK and final reminder and pictures of the car.

And a reference copy of the claim form that i submitted earlier.

 

Unfortunately the contract also states that unless terminated the agreement will be extended on expiration date and will continue to roll over each year unless the client terminates it.

 

As it stands CPR was sent and received no reply pertaining to it

I've checked the councils planning permission web page and there is no mention of either the ppc or its clients name for signage permission.

EVIDENCE1.pdf

Edited by dx100uk
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but no proof of payment since

 

the planning permission grant will not be 60mins I can assure you.

 

the cases they refer to are mere twaddle that all the PPC troll out trying to confuse matters in the judges eyes

its your job to render each one null and void in this case.

 

WHO has signed that witness statement please

and we will need to see the exhibits too as that is ALL they can rely upon.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Proof of payment? for the court proceedings? They were supposed to pay by 18/12.

 

Signed by VCS litigation department paralegal. Uploaded witness statement previously now exhibit uploaded

 

VCS claims reasonable cause to request data from DVLA and the VCS usually send out PCN within 14 days of contravention (DVLA confirms enquiry date as 45 days after contravention)

 

They are relying on "law of agency" and not POFA.

 

Excel PS ltd v Nick jenning to establish that KEEPER is liable as keeper authorised usage

 

Citing Thornton v Shoe lane parking for contractual obligation

 

Vine v Waltham forest for proper display

 

Parking eye v Beavis to establish that indeed the the contract was established

 

VCS claims entitlement to erect signs as per freeholder consent (but doesn’t mention name on signage)

and cite above that they are justified to charge whatever they do

 

And citing Chaplair ltd v kumasi that they are entitled to debt recovery.

NTKFRPICS.pdf

exhibit.pdf

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First things first then.

 

they have no locus standi ( their contract out of date so no rights in the matter). Other cases have determined that they need to prove it has been renewed, not rely on the wording for a roll over. It may be that the landowner told them to bugger off years ago and by not including that letter they paint a very different story. Contract by inertia isnt a contract.

they cant claim agency to get your keeper details or to sue you ( whoever was driving wasnt your servant unless they can prove you emloy a chauffeur)

 

Authorising usage is different and not applicable to this point and anyways Jennings admitted being the driver so it really isnt a story, let alone a precedent or even persuasive. All they are showing is they won a badly defended case.

 

the picures of the signage they have used are illegible so get your own piccies.

 

lack of PP menas they are relying on criminality to form a contract and you cant enter into a binding criminal compact. You need to read the parking prankster blog and find a link to an article on this.

 

get on to the court today and see if they have paid the allocation fee, if they havent send an email asking that the claim be stayed for the non payment of the fee. The courts do this automatically after a certain amount of time but always give a certain amount of leeway, usually a week or so but it can be a lot longer depending on their caseload.

Edited by honeybee13
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planning permission.

I wouldnt lead wi5th thsi argument, it is poorly understood by judges but use it as a secondary or tertiary point. It is usual to make the point about your main argument and then say " in any case" and them mention the lack of planning, no adherence to the POFA etc

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Thank you. I have a number of questions pertaining to the answers above and some more with regards to what I'm reading up upon. Ill put them up as soon as i can coherently fashion them.

The hearing is on 15/01. Thats means the evidence must reach both court n claimant by 31/12?. Keeping in view royal mail holidays Ill have to post this bundle by 27 or 28 Dec for it to reach by 29/12? Am i correct or can I post with proof of postage on saturday 29/12.

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Due to a print disaster..Ive been unable to post the witness statement by 12pm.

I have till 31/12/18

Should I email the docs to the Claimant and Court?

 

OR

I can personally hand deliver the envelopes to the court and claimant.

I believe 31st Dec 2018 is a working day? Ive failed to find any holiday schedule.

What do you suggest?

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simply post it

you are a litigant in person

certain leeway is allowed

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Tomorrow is Dday.

Their contract which looks and sounds crap. VCS was paid a fixed sum for the 3 year contract. That means they now enforce for free? The property management company JLL no longer handles the said property AND the person who signed off the contract on behalf of Scott. Wids on behalf of JLL was never a director. I checked the companies house beta site.

Any tips?

Also as to Rights of Audience. Is the VCS employed paralegal allowed to present the case?

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expand

helps others

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...

The judge concluded that my mother’s car is driven by other people to take her around and that they drive with her permission and therefore law of contract stands and she is liable for their mistakes.

 

The lawyer was unprepared.

He hasn’t seen the copy of the witness statement.

Was given 30mibrs to go through it.

 

The judge didn’t let me speak as such.

Told me that she’s the defendant and only she can answer the questions.

Really the judge made the case for the lawyer.

 

I also brought up the misgivings of the contract.

The judge had a photocopy not the original.

I questioned the validity but was warned that I was out of line.

 

2 hours. £214.

I mentioned she was a pensioner but the judge said pay in instalments.

 

First payment due today.

Received nothing from court or the claimant on how to do so.

This was such a drama.

 

I should have been more prepared.

And I should have appealed the judges decision.

Edited by dx100uk
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Yes. The lawyer was just irrelevant. The judge was guiding him.. and I’m not kidding.. in case ur wondering coz we lost..I’m 99% sure the contract is fake.

 

The judge said he was satisfied by the contract . When I raised serious concerns and the fact that it’s a photocopy . He got upset. He also said that if I had brought a copy of my research that was the companies house beta page he would have accepted the argument. I said I could show him right now on my laptop. He said I’ve made my ruling. In the end he said it’s probably that the landowner is probably based abroad.

 

My fault I should have been more thorough. He also said I should do more research on them and should consider becoming a lawyer as even a lawyer wouldn’t have performed this well..

.

The lawyer was so relieved and happy. The judge didn’t take into consideration that my mothers pension is 1 pound per week..

 

It’s like there is no justice. And this judgement is only gonna encourage such companies.

Anyway.. I know it’s over but is it really? I have a few things in mind but I don’t want to discuss in public.. i

Edited by Andyorch
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It makes me question if VCS have dodgy deal going on with the judge! Sorry for your efforts and frustration!

 

Yes. The lawyer was just irrelevant. The judge was guiding him.. and I’m not kidding.. in case ur wondering coz we lost..I’m 99% sure the contract is fake.

 

The judge said he was satisfied by the contract . When I raised serious concerns and the fact that it’s a photocopy . He got upset. He also said that if I had brought a copy of my research that was the companies house beta page he would have accepted the argument. I said I could show him right now on my laptop. He said I’ve made my ruling. In the end he said it’s probably that the landowner is probably based abroad.

 

My fault I should have been more thorough. He also said I should do more research on them and should consider becoming a lawyer as even a lawyer wouldn’t have performed this well..

.

The lawyer was so relieved and happy. The judge didn’t take into consideration that my mothers pension is 1 pound per week..

 

It’s like there is no justice. And this judgement is only gonna encourage such companies.

Anyway.. I know it’s over but is it really? I have a few things in mind but I don’t want to discuss in public.. i

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you allowed yourself to be bullied out of the decision you wanted by first of all accepring anything from the oppostion alwyer. You should ahve told the judge that it was all too late for you to read and demand an adjournment to alloow you the chance to read and respond. that would have put the judge in a position of not acceptring their WS or wasting the court time for a rehearing. Judeg is partially wrong about the driving of the car but what did for you was saying that others acted as her chauffeur rathe tha a plain " I wanst driving"

 

Did you challenge the credentials of the lawyer?

 

However, it can be a lottery as seen on ch5's Britain's parking hell TV programme where a chap lost a case for parking on his own land. In his case there was a plan B but he didnt think of it at the time so try and have an "in any case" argument

Edited by honeybee13
Paras, typos
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  • 1 month later...

Im not sure what you are saying.

I wasn't bullied by the lawyer in fact he was so weak that i was feeling sorry for him inside..

The judge disregarded each and every point.

Yes I did.

He was a proper lawyer.

the paralegal didnt conduct the case.

 

The judge refused to talk to me.

He straight out asked my mom if anyone else drives her car.

She said yes as she is disabled she is driven around sometimes.

From that honesty he decided that indeed someone else had permission to drive her car.

And in that case whatever the driver did she was liable for it.

 

Is there anything that can be done now.

For example like for Justice who just won her case.

My mother cant really afford these payments.

Im willing to take out the time to invest in this..

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What's the payment then?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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