Got CCJ due to council and bank blunder!!- what compo should i ask for?

[AndyOrch]

If you could convert that file to PDF and re upload......our eyesight is not as good as it use to be.

 

Andy

[jayu619]

Hi Andy

 

No problem I can do that

Question - when you open it, are you not able to zoom in? Or are you referring to the zoom in that you can’t really see? No problem either way!

Jay

[BankFodder]

Yes please in PDF format and it would help if it was a lot less murky as well. We normally suggest that people should put documents up in a condition and in the form that they will be pleased to receive themselves if it were sent to them.

 

I hope you won't mind if I say that this thread started on 11 March and it is now 14 March and it seems to be struggling along trying to get the information we need and trying to get the responses to the questions we ask.

 

It will be very nice if we could move along a bit more briskly.

 

You don't need to worry about getting the judgement. It's not at all relevant for the moment. You are a long way from that. What I'm trying to figure out is the best way to start taking control of the problem and to go on to the attack. I think you could help us by being little bit more engaging with the thread please.

[BankFodder]

While we are waiting to see exactly what has been said about the solicitors liability, this is my suggestion as to how you should begin the fightback on this issue.

 

My assessment so far is that you are being led by the nose by three organisations – the bank, the solicitor and the council and so far none of them are being especially transparent with you and they are all setting the pace. This has to change. You need to take control.

 

I'm especially concerned that you have now been told that steps will be taken to remove the CCJ but it may take some time. I think this is completely unacceptable. The CC J is a huge issue and it needs to be dealt with immediately.

 

I think that you can deal with it quite easily and at the same time it will start to bring the battle into their camp and put them on the back foot.

 

It is all as a result of their error – the bank, the solicitor and the council, and it is about time that you started put them on the back foot.

 

So in respect of the CC J I suggest that you apply to have it set aside. Normally speaking I would suggest that you did this after consultation with the solicitor and get their consent in which case the application would sell through with minimum fuss.

 

In this case, I see some value in just going straight ahead without consulting the solicitor or the council other than to send the council a very short warning – just a few days - that you will be applying for a set aside.

 

I would then suggest that you complete the N244 application notice to apply for the set-aside in a way which makes it clear that there has been some failing by the council and the solicitor. When we eventually see the documentation which we have been asking for, we can start to work out a form of words.

 

If it is all as you say then there will be no objection at all from the council to this and the set-aside application will be granted without difficulty. However, the important thing is that you will then have on record that you have been obliged to take action to remove the CC J which they negligently obtained against you and this will be a very helpful point to have scored in preparation for dealing with the rest of the problem.

 

I think that applying for set-aside is quite expensive nowadays. It might be about £250. However, you will ask for the reimbursement of these costs on your application notice and you will support that request with evidence of the councils/solicitors/negligence. If you are awarded your costs on that basis – which is highly likely then you will have obtained a valuable advantage.

 

Please will you post up the information which you have been asked for in PDF format so that we can read it easily please.

[Ganymede]

I'm a little confused about the supposedly defective service of the pleadings.

 

The Claimant/Court served them at the OP's usual address where he was actually living at the time, instead of a "correspondence" address the OP had provided?

 

Is the OP saying that he didn't receive the papers at his rental property where he was living, or that he did receive them but because they were not sent to the correspondence address he'd nominated that he didn't respond to them?

 

The OP's account of what happened isn't clear I don't think.

[BankFodder]

I had formed the impression that the rental property was one which was being rented out by the OP. Maybe I've got it wrong. I'm afraid that we will have to wait until the OP comes back to the thread and posts. It's certainly a bit difficult getting the whole story strained out the way the thread has gone along so far.

[jayu619]

I had formed the impression that the rental property was one which was being rented out by the OP. Maybe I've got it wrong. I'm afraid that we will have to wait until the OP comes back to the thread and posts. It's certainly a bit difficult getting the whole story strained out the way the thread has gone along so far.

 

Good morning!

 

Sorry for the confusion to some of you - I genuinely thought i was being clear about it in serveral posts.

 

But the CCJ relates to my rental property. This is NOT where I live.

I have a family home to which council letters get passed onto regarding my rental property.

Council provided my correspondence address to solicitors but solicitors we’re sending it to my rental property.

 

As for PDF - I will post it up around 2pm or before as I’m in meetings all morning. Bear with me guys - sorry for the frustration as I thought I was cooperating in the way and form you guys wished.

 

Thanks

[jayu619]

Also - should I email the collections officer regarding an update to removing my CCJ? Or should I go straight to the solicitors for an answer?

 

Thanks

[BankFodder]

 

But the CCJ relates to my rental property. This is NOT where I live.

I have a family home to which council letters get passed onto regarding my rental property.

 

 

As for PDF - I will post it up around 2pm or before as I’m in meetings all morning. Bear with me guys - sorry for the frustration as I thought I was cooperating in the way and form you guys wished.

 

Thanks

that's what I gathered.

Also - should I email the collections officer regarding an update to removing my CCJ? Or should I go straight to the solicitors for an answer?

 

Thanks

 

can you tell us who told you that it would take some time to deal with the CC J? Do you have in writing or was it simply verbal?

[jayu619]

Hi

That was verbally said to me on my last call to council regarding CCJ.

 

I will post up all my correspondence with collections officer and legal officer so you can see what nonsense they are running at THH.

 

As it was verbal, is there anything I can ask the council by email to get them to reply by writing about removing this CCJ? I assume it’s important to get everything in writing when dealing with these institutions.

[BankFodder]

As I have indicated, I think you need to take control and I think you need to be quite aggressive about it.

 

This means that I think you need to get a form N244 and we will help you fill it out. However, we will he need to have a clear copy of the letter they have sent you in PDF format and which we are still waiting for.

 

I would then suggest that you write a letter to the council and tell them that in view of the negligent handling of your case and the subsequent CC J which they have obtained against you and which has caused you loss and inconvenience, and in view of the fact that you have been told by them on XXX date (you have logged the phone call haven't you – even if you haven't recorded it?) That it will take some time to remove the CC J, you are now taking matters into your own hands and you are letting them know that you have applied directly the County Court to have the CC J set aside and that you have explained to the court that the CC J was caused by the careless handling of your contact details and that you have admitted the same.

 

Although I'm fully aware that the council have said that they will remove the CC J I think that it is much better for you to do it using a form of words of your choosing – because you can be absolutely certain that if the council apply for the set-aside then their form of words will be sanitised and will be unhelpful to you.

 

Does any of this proposed route interest you?

[jayu619]

Hi!

Yes I will do that!

Sorry if this is a stupid question - how do I go about getting this form?

I can make a start on it tonight straight after work.

 

And no problem about the info you require - I will post up by 2pm.

Would it be help in seeing the CCJ claim form and judgment?

 

And yes all calls logged. In fact, every time I phoned the council to get answers - they emailed on the same day starting with “following from our telephone conversation...” so I have my logs

 

Thanks

[BankFodder]

Click n244

[jayu619]

Thank you!

Please let me know if I should post up claim form and judgment paperwork awarded against me.

Thanks

[BankFodder]

No. For the moment I think that we only need to see what we have asked for.

On the other hand if you are going to scan the message properly then you may as well scan everything else in PDF format so you got it ready if we need it or you need to send it elsewhere.

[SuperVillain]

While we are waiting to see exactly what has been said about the solicitors liability, this is my suggestion as to how you should begin the fightback on this issue.

 

My assessment so far is that you are being led by the nose by three organisations – the bank, the solicitor and the council and so far none of them are being especially transparent with you and they are all setting the pace. This has to change. You need to take control.

 

I'm especially concerned that you have now been told that steps will be taken to remove the CCJ but it may take some time. I think this is completely unacceptable. The CC J is a huge issue and it needs to be dealt with immediately.

 

I think that you can deal with it quite easily and at the same time it will start to bring the battle into their camp and put them on the back foot.

 

It is all as a result of their error – the bank, the solicitor and the council, and it is about time that you started put them on the back foot.

 

So in respect of the CC J I suggest that you apply to have it set aside. Normally speaking I would suggest that you did this after consultation with the solicitor and get their consent in which case the application would sell through with minimum fuss.

 

In this case, I see some value in just going straight ahead without consulting the solicitor or the council other than to send the council a very short warning – just a few days - that you will be applying for a set aside.

 

I would then suggest that you complete the N244 application notice to apply for the set-aside in a way which makes it clear that there has been some failing by the council and the solicitor. When we eventually see the documentation which we have been asking for, we can start to work out a form of words.

 

If it is all as you say then there will be no objection at all from the council to this and the set-aside application will be granted without difficulty. However, the important thing is that you will then have on record that you have been obliged to take action to remove the CC J which they negligently obtained against you and this will be a very helpful point to have scored in preparation for dealing with the rest of the problem.

 

I think that applying for set-aside is quite expensive nowadays. It might be about £250. However, you will ask for the reimbursement of these costs on your application notice and you will support that request with evidence of the councils/solicitors/negligence. If you are awarded your costs on that basis – which is highly likely then you will have obtained a valuable advantage.

 

Please will you post up the information which you have been asked for in PDF format so that we can read it easily please.

 

OP, just a thought further to what Bankfodder has said above.

 

It may be first worth writing to the solicitors and the Council and give them a 7 day deadline (or shorter) to provide you with a consent order for the CCJ to be set aside by conset. The threat being that you will make the application as outlined by Bankfodder if they don't.

 

I can tell you right now, knocking up a consent order to set aside a CCJ will take all of 15 minutes... e.g.

 

1. Default Judgment dated XXXXXXX is set aside

2. Defendant to file a Defence within 28 days of service of the sealed consent order.

3. No order as to costs. (or Defendant's costs of £XXXX to be paid within 21 days of service of the sealed consent order).

 

Whilst I appreciate the CCJ needs to be removed asap, in my view it's better to at least try to get them to foot the bill for doing this (a case of them paying £100 to file a consent order, or you paying £255 to make an application - plus all the time and effort to actually putting the application together, to get the same end result).

[BankFodder]

OP, just a thought further to what Bankfodder has said above.

 

It may be first worth writing to the solicitors and the Council and give them a 7 day deadline (or shorter) to provide you with a consent order for the CCJ to be set aside by conset. The threat being that you will make the application as outlined by Bankfodder if they don't.

 

I can tell you right now, knocking up a consent order to set aside a CCJ will take all of 15 minutes... e.g.

 

1. Default Judgment dated XXXXXXX is set aside

2. Defendant to file a Defence within 28 days of service of the sealed consent order.

3. No order as to costs. (or Defendant's costs of £XXXX to be paid within 21 days of service of the sealed consent order).

 

Whilst I appreciate the CCJ needs to be removed asap, in my view it's better to at least try to get them to foot the bill for doing this (a case of them paying £100 to file a consent order, or you paying £255 to make an application - plus all the time and effort to actually putting the application together, to get the same end result).

 

sorry, but I disagree. I think there is a huge value in paying out the cost of the application notice and then having it awarded back to you as a demonstration by the court that they accept that the council and the solicitor are to blame in this. I also think that there is a huge psychological advantage now in seizing the initiative and ending this business of doing everything according to the council's timescale.

 

There is no need to draft an application notice in the formal way that you have set out. There is no need to draft the order. The judge will do that without any problem for a litigant in person

[SuperVillain]

Surely if the Council and the Solicitor set aside by consent and pay for it to be done, they are accepting defeat and that the CCJ was wrong?

 

Once the OP's application is filed if the solicitors have any sense (although it's J&P so in my experience probably not) they will just offer to set aside by consent at that stage. And if the defendant doesn't consent, they will make submissions that he should pay their costs of attending the application hearing.

 

Just a thought. That's what I'd do if I was them...

[BankFodder]

No, they won't be seen to be accepting defeat. They will draft their application notice in a way which is totally noncommittal and admits nothing. You can be certain of it. They may even simply do it by means of a letter.

 

There will be no issue of costs awarded against them. There will be no symbolic defeat of them – and in the circumstances I think this is absolutely necessary because you need to be building up a case of clear – not only liability – but of blame (and there is a difference)

[SuperVillain]

By consenting to set it aside, they're admitting the CCJ was entered incorrectly.

 

But that aside, OP, once you do make this application if they then offer to set aside by consent (i.e. offering you want you're applying for anyway), and you don't consent and choose to proceed to the application hearing, they will try and get costs from you.

 

And it's a simple argument to make - "Sir, the Claimant offered to set aside this judgment by consent, the Defendant unreasonably refused and as a result the Claimant has incurred (for argument's sake say £800) of additional costs for preparing and attending this application hearing which would not otherwise been incurred had the Defendant acted reasonably and consented. We therefore ask the Court to award the Claimant's costs of £800.00 payable by the Defendant in 21 days". Depends on the Judge you get on the day...

 

And just bear in mind, admitting the CCJ was entered incorrectly isn't an admission that the Claim itself is incorrect, it is an admission of a procedural error/irregularity. A set aside simply sets the clock back as if you had been correctly served with the proceedings. The litigation will continue and you will still need to defend that claim properly.

[BankFodder]

Consenting to set aside does not inevitably mean that there is an acceptance the CC J was entered incorrectly. There could be lots of other reasons for agreeing to the set-aside – including some accommodation between the claimant and the defendant.

 

I disagree as to the costs if they then offered to set aside by consent. Once the application is made then they can either consent to it or challenge it in whole or in part. In the circumstances I don't think they would dare – in particular they have made it clear that dealing with the CC J will take some time and this is clearly not acceptable.

 

The litigation won't continue. How can it possibly? They have their money – and in fact they had it all the time. What are they going to litigate for? Even more money?

 

I'd also like to say that this discussion is becoming unhelpful and it is disrupting the thread which is already gone on long enough. I may move these discussion post to another thread and if you want we can continue there

[AndyOrch]

The litigation will continue and you will still need to defend that claim properly.

 

Not necessarily its the claimants choice to decide if they wish to continue.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?484421-Backdoor-Cabot-CCJ-old-co-op-card-now-Warrant-of-Control***Set-a-Side-Uncontested***/page5

 

Andy

[BankFodder]

I had better say that I understand that site team member Andyorch also disagrees with me about the issue of costs he also believes that there is a risk that you may not be able to recover costs of the application if they respond and said that they had consented anyway.

 

In view of this opinion, it's probably better to play safe and to write to them as advised above and to give them seven days to make the application otherwise you will do it yourself and seek the cost of the application.

 

Frankly I hope they failed to respond in time because I think you will be handed a big advantage if you can make the application on your terms and if you are awarded costs. However, I was advising you to ambush them – may be that the best strategy after all.

[jayu619]

Hi!

 

As promised - here is PDF documents

 

First one is with Legal Officer - it was the forwarded message from my email correspondence with Collections Officer.

 

I hope this is satisfactory. I redacted info from emails.

Let me know if you require anything else.

 

Thank you ALL again for taking the time to help with this matter.

Jay

LegalOfficer.pdf

CollectionOfficer.pdf

[BankFodder]

Thank you. I see that on 23 February, Mr Emmanuel Adeyosoye admitted on behalf of the council that the sisters were at fault. He also said that the solicitors would be moving to remove the CC J. So far you have heard nothing. That is a full three weeks and there has been no news. I think this is unacceptable and I am confirmed in my view that you should now take the matter in hand yourself.

 

I suggest that you write the letter immediately – today – and send it to Mr Emmanuel Adeyosoye and tell him that you had no news and that if you do not receive a copy of the application notice or other letter which has been used to commence the process of removing the CC J, that you will begin your own set-aside application in seven days – next Wednesday.

 

I think if you take this action you are fully covered and there will be no risks of you having to bear the cost of the application – even if they subsequently try to say that they had agreed to do the job themselves. I think it is entirely reasonable that in view of their negligence, they should act with alacrity and it doesn't appear to be happening.

I hope that the council is in such a mess that they will not be able to provide you with the evidence you need within the seven days and that will allow you to proceed. It is pretty likely that they won't be able to react in time.

 

Get yourself a form N244 and we can set about completing it here so it is ready to send off. I've already explained to you the benefit of doing this yourself – you will be able to decide your own wording and it will deny the council an opportunity to whitewash the situation – which they undoubtedly will. With the N244 you are allowed to provide a statement of evidence and the email of Emmanuel Adeyosoye should be attached to it. Do not redact that copy.

 

In terms of the other material you have posted, I see that there is reference to a direct debit for an old amount. You refer to that in January. Can you tell us about that please. Is there any possibility that there was some change in the rate and somehow or other this is linked to the moment that the standing order payment started to be made without reference.