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    • Northmonk forget what I said about your Notice to Hirer being the best I have seen . Though it  still may be  it is not good enough to comply with PoFA. Before looking at the NTH, we can look at the original Notice to Keeper. That is not compliant. First the period of parking as sated on their PCN is not actually the period of parking but a misstatement  since it is only the arrival and departure times of your vehicle. The parking period  is exactly that -ie the time youwere actually parked in a parking spot.  If you have to drive around to find a place to park the act of driving means that you couldn't have been parked at the same time. Likewise when you left the parking place and drove to the exit that could not be describes as parking either. So the first fail is  failing to specify the parking period. Section9 [2][a] In S9[2][f] the Act states  (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid; Your PCN fails to mention the words in parentheses despite Section 9 [2]starting by saying "The notice must—..." As the Notice to Keeper fails to comply with the Act,  it follows that the Notice to Hirer cannot be pursued as they couldn't get the NTH compliant. Even if the the NTH was adjudged  as not  being affected by the non compliance of the NTK, the Notice to Hirer is itself not compliant with the Act. Once again the PCN fails to get the parking period correct. That alone is enough to have the claim dismissed as the PCN fails to comply with PoFA. Second S14 [5] states " (5)The notice to Hirer must— (a)inform the hirer that by virtue of this paragraph any unpaid parking charges (being parking charges specified in the notice to keeper) may be recovered from the hirer; ON their NTH , NPE claim "The driver of the above vehicle is liable ........" when the driver is not liable at all, only the hirer is liable. The driver and the hirer may be different people, but with a NTH, only the hirer is liable so to demand the driver pay the charge  fails to comply with PoFA and so the NPE claim must fail. I seem to remember that you have confirmed you received a copy of the original PCN sent to  the Hire company plus copies of the contract you have with the Hire company and the agreement that you are responsible for breaches of the Law etc. If not then you can add those fails too.
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    • I understand what you mean. But consider that part of the problem, and the frustration of those trying to help, is the way that questions are asked without context and without straight facts. A lot of effort was wasted discussing as a consumer issue before it was mentioned that the property was BTL. I don't think we have your history with this property. Were you the freehold owner prior to this split? Did you buy the leasehold of one half? From a family member? How was that funded (earlier loan?). How long ago was it split? Have either of the leasehold halves changed hands since? I'm wondering if the split and the leashold/freehold arrangements were set up in a way that was OK when everyone was everyone was connected. But a way that makes the leasehold virtually unsaleable to an unrelated party.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
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PRA Claimform - old MBNA Credit card debt ***Claim Dismissed no DN***


Betty55
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Well I had 2 main arguments.

 

There was no evidence that I got a copy of the agreement at time of signing as 2 of the conditions were on the envelope you post it in and were difficult to read and the agreement was not linked to the account number of claim in either the documents or claimant WS.

 

The 2nd thing was the Default notice provided by the claimant.

This was never served on me and the one they provided referred to a breach of the wrong conditions so not compliant with s88.

 

The judge decided the dn issues should be dealt with first as if that part of the claim failed there would be no point looking at the rest.

 

In relation to the dn the thing was printed on paper referring to the FCA when the FCA did not take over the regulation of consumer credit until over a year after the date on the DN.

 

I argued that there is no way that dn could be a an actual copy or photocopy of a Valid DN .

The claimant had not accounted for these issues in their SWS despite me raising them in my WS.

 

There was no evidence the dn was sent.

The judge said if the person who had written the statement was there and a witnesss from mbna then they may have been able to explain the systems for sending DNS and how they are copied.

 

I said I questioned the provenance of the DN.

plus there was a significant difference in the monetary demand on the dn and a statement I had dated a few days later.

 

I think the DN was cobbled together either by the OC or PRA hence the errors made on it.

Someone dropped the ball on that piece of fiction

Edited by dx100uk
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Thank you. I think they may try again though which is a worry but I’m just so glad that I went through with it. I will have to wait see what happens next but they definitely do some creative documents. A case that helped me as had some similar issues was PRA v Segal ......same DN issue 😀😀

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Really? I didn’t know if they were able to appeal it or have a second go.......it was nerve wracking but the DJ was good. It was listed for a whole day but was done in less than 2 hoursas he just tried the one issue 😀

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title updated

 

well done everyone

 

dx

 

 

please consider a donation to keep us here..

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NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

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If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Great thanks jon

I was lucky to get a good DJ. Straight away he seemed to have a grasp of the errors in case

I got the feeling the rep knew too. Came straight to me when I arrived and asked if I’d like to make an offer for repayments

 

Rep was a barrister and knew his stuff

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Excellent result ...decent judge by the sounds of it who knew and followed the CCA1974.(for a change)

 

And considering this was Fast Track..even more impressive.

 

Given the claim was dismissed on a default notice issue...it would be pointless trying again as it cant be corrected after the event.

 

Well done Betty

 

 

Andy

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Thanks Andy

 

Yes the DJ said he could not be sure the DN was ever sent.

Don’t think he was impressed the author of the WS did not attend.

Plus a few of the points I made in my WS were not responded to in their SWS.

 

I think that legal judgement helped as its rather curious how the defendant in that case also got a copy of mbna DN off PRA and it referred to breach of the wrong conditions when comparing to the CA. The same conditions that was in the one they sent me. And it was a 2012 DN on FCA paper.

 

I have one question.

Can PRA issues a new DN?

I thought it was only the OC who can.

 

I think the DJ said something to their rep along the lines of “well unless you can issue a default notice start again with this ....”

I wasn’t sure if he WAS being serious

Edited by dx100uk
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