ESA & HB to UC (Including JSA and HB) – Potential Lost Income Problem

[essexmat]

The dreaded ESA assessment form arrived today. No panic, I know I won’t qualify based on anxiety and depression even though my GP says I am not fit for work. My attitude is, fill form in, send off, go to assessment and get it out of the way and then have to claim UC (single over 25)

 

This is not my issue, so, if I can have some help and advice it would be appreciated. I will be as brief as I can so here goes:

I live with parents, 2 bed bungalow, privately rented of £765.00pcm. I pay 50% rent for my room which is £382.50 which my council pays at the moment. In addition to this I get my ESA (assessment phase) benefit of £146.20 per fortnight so monthly I get around £674.90. Council tax is worked out due to parents’ disability and pension age and we only pay around £200.00 per annum.

 

Looking at UC it seems that because my UC claim post ESA assessment will include JSA element and housing element I would only be entitled to a shared room rate because I share kitchen, toilet etc. with parents meaning my housing element drops around £100.00pcm meaning my total UC amount per month will be around £560.00pcm and not the £674.90 I currently get – in fact the drop is around £120.00pcm.

 

My question is, will I get transitional protection to keep my income the same as I will be moving from ESA/HB to UC inc JSA and HB? This significant drop if not entitled would mean I literally have no money left at all with paying for food and other household bills after my rent is paid.

 

Obviously the time they get my form back and I await an assessment date this could be around 3 months BUT it WILL happen and I need to be prepared. So as well as losing this significant benefit amount I could also have to wait 6 weeks for a payment? How will I pay my rent and other bills in this period?

 

Surely I cannot be deducted this amount when I have a liable rent to pay (50/50 between me and my parents) They should not be penalised in to paying more surely as they are disabled and Father is on pension credit and DLA.

 

Please help, really worried about this. Many thanks

[speedfreek]

Have you run the scenario via entitled to or any other benefit calculators?

 

TBH absolutely nobody has a clue on how UC works in practice except for the fact it will make everybody worse of in some obscure way.

 

Not sure if you get PIP/DLA or could sort something out with AA if either yourself and your parents get DLA/PIP? Remember UC has no disability premiums and all ESAs decision past 4th April 2017 now also carry no WRAG group premium either!

 

If Rightnet discussion is right..... then at present there is no "Transitional Protection" as all ESA transfers Support/WRAG group are not being treated or paid as being in those groups until after a new assessment. So transfer >>> UC50 issued >>> assessment >>> decision makers decision.

 

Best bet is to throw the family make up benefit scenarios through a few benefit calculators and then take it from there and/or all of you seek out any advice available in your area.

[Nystagmite]

https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Universal-Credit-transitional-protection/What-is-Universal-Credit-transitional-protection#guide-content Bit of information about transitional protection and UC.

[essexmat]

Thank you for the replies. I have just read the following

 

"Transitional Protection will only be available to people who are moved over to Universal Credit even though nothing has happened which makes them start a new benefit claim. These people are called 'managed migrants'. There will not be any managed migrants until the Universal Credit full digital service is available in all areas. The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) is planning to start 'managed migration' in July 2019."

 

I am still getting various different answers whatever site I read and I popped in to my Jobcentre yesterday to ask for some advice. Their reply was "wait until it happens we don't know much about UC at the moment" Great, so you cannot help me - great service.

 

At the present time looking at various calculators it seems I could be anywhere between £70-104 WORSE off if I get no protection. Great isn't it when I have that shortfall in rent because I would get SHARED rate not ONE room because I dare to share a bathroom and kitchen. No wonder so many people are getting ill - this will make me iller and send me over the edge if this happens.

 

I know we are not supposed to judge but I live in a coastal town and the unemployment is sky high. There are people (some that I know) that purposely had several kids to (a) avoid work and (b) be BETTER off. Someone I know has 3 kids, 3 bed place, no council tax, housing benefit, child allowances, JSA etc and in total get's around £1400pm. I have been honest all my life, single, no kids, paid tax and NI for 25 years and I won't even get enough to rent my room at home - how is this system fair in any way? No wonder people play the system.

[Nystagmite]

You'd normally get the maximum LHA shared rate for your area plus JSA. Assuming that's not more than the benefits cap. (which doesn't apply if you're on DLA PIP or ESA SG)

 

You only get the shared room rate because that's what you're doing - you're sharing a house. You're not living alone.

[essexmat]

You'd normally get the maximum LHA shared rate for your area plus JSA. Assuming that's not more than the benefits cap. (which doesn't apply if you're on DLA PIP or ESA SG)

 

You only get the shared room rate because that's what you're doing - you're sharing a house. You're not living alone.

 

But it is wrong isn't it? It is totally unfair and unlawful.

 

Yes I share the house (2 bed) BUT my parents and myself are JOINT TENANTS and therefore they rent ONE room and I rent the OTHER room. Whether we share a kitchen and toilet should make no difference at all. They are liablefor 50% of the rent and I am liable for 50% of the rent.

 

My LHAfor my council is shared @ £280.51pm and 1 room @ £444.51pm. Obviously I would not get the full £444.51 as my rent is £382.50 (50% of £765.00pcm) but to only get the shared rate means parents get £382.50 and I get £280.51 meaning that the rent shortfall is £101.99. How do I pay that?!?!

 

I am on ESA (assessement - soon to be kicked off of it) and get £146.20 fortnightly and £382.50 HB so what the DWP are really saying is tough sh*t? You are fit enough to work (even though my GP says I am not) so what we are going to do is give you a rent shortfall even though I rent ONE ROOM.

 

The whole system stinks. Being honest pays no dividends at all - maybe I should have knocked someone up a couple of times and claimed HB, JSA (joint), council tax support, child benefits etc and claimed £1,600pm?

 

Makes me sick

[essexmat]

To end, as this will make me iller than I feel at the moment, I know there is nothing I can do, but the DWP are literally tearing people apart andmaking people homeless.

 

When I was last on JSA and HB back in 2013 I claimed JSA and HB and got my one bed allowance because I rented ONE ROOM. Since UC came in to place they have roaylly screwed people, honest people who have worked most of their lives and done no wrong. No wonder this country is in the mess it is and people commit crimes and look for cash in hand work. People CANNOT survive

[Nystagmite]

 

The whole system stinks. Being honest pays no dividends at all - maybe I should have knocked someone up a couple of times and claimed HB, JSA (joint), council tax support, child benefits etc and claimed £1,600pm?

 

Makes me sick

 

Nothing to stop you doing that. But you probably wouldn't be living a life of luxury.

[sgtbush]

No its not wrong.

You rent a room off your parents so you'll get the shared room rate.

 

Many many years ago if you lived with your parents you got nothing apart from unemployment benefits. No housing no relief from poll tax ( as it was then)

 

Move out if you think its unfair.

[essexmat]

No, I rent a room from my landlord. One of two bedrooms the other one being rented by my parents.

 

Maybe I should move out actually as it will cost the council more as my parents would get the 1 bed rate of £444.51 less a little for extra room and i would also get £444.51 and being over 35 I would get full allowance and would ensure I used it as well.

 

Therefore by these stupid rules the local authority would actually be worse off than paying me a room rate which is less at 382.50 than the 444.51 they would legally have to pay for my rent.

 

I was never like this until recently but the whole system is set up yo help those that have abused the system rather than people in genuine need.

[Nystagmite]

Even if you do move out, it may not mean your full rent will get paid.

[sgtbush]

Essexmat

So you have a completely separate lease from your landlord and your parents have a completely separate lease from the landlord.

The landlord is a completely separate person from all tenants?

From what your saying the property sounds like a HMO

( bt to qualify as a HMOproperty, the occupants cannot be related)

 

Your opening a can of worms here if the DWP find that out. Your trying to use a loophole that was closed many years ago.

[essexmat]

OK, an update (don't need any sarcastic responses either as trying to be as honest as possible)

 

ESA assessment on 29th September - took 2 weeks from sending ESA50 back to getting appointment. Not in the slightest bit bothered or worried as I know it is a waste of time and I am off ESA as soon as I have finished. I have seen and know of so many people with severe disability and mental health problems who have failed so to me this is just a "get in and get out" scenario. They do not take anxiety and depression seriously so I cannot make myself iller over it. My GP says I am unfit for work but someone who doesn't know me can say I am - I will say no more on that.

 

OK, next, I call UC to get some help in advance on what I may be entitled to. They were about as useful and helpful as a chocolate teapot. Not one bit of help, unable to answer ANY questions I put to them and basically told there was nothing further they could help with. Not unexpected as the whole system is a total farce/mess that REWARDS people who have never worked at all, have untold kids having never worked or abused the system to get what they need (again, we all know this is true but I won't say any more for risk of being banned)

 

As stated earlier, I get £382.50 housing and £292.40 ESA at present - under UC it seems I get £317.82 base element and £281.40 shared room rate - around £599.00 so I will be around £75pm worse off unless I can get some concrete answers re transitional protection - again I asked UC when I called and their answer was "don't know" seriously, you run a system and don't know? I give up.

 

Luckily I looked at the tenancy agreement where I am and all 3 of us are on it - myself and both parents so at least that is covered for me claiming SOME (albeit £100pm less than I am getting now) housing help - I was worried about not being able to claim housing but with us all on the agreement in black and white I am covered.

 

All in all, not impressed with the lack of help, not impressed withbeing treated like dirt, not impressed with this whole process making me worse health wise - had GP appointment yesterday and BP is up and heart rate sky high so on new medication. When asked what was worrying me I told my GP outright and on top of it all my Father in undergoing chemotherapy, my mother has mobility issues and I am trying to keep it all together for them whilst juggling my own problems - sometimes I wonder if I should just give up but I can't for all our sakes.

 

The simple fact is, the DWP are killing people - but maybe that is the idea, less benefits to pay out eh!

 

By all means shoot me down, take the mick and tell me I am being over dramatic but I am barely keeping it together

 

*awaits sarcastic unhelpful comment from sgtbush who is already reading this*

[sgtbush]

Luckily I looked at the tenancy agreement where I am and all 3 of us are on it - myself and both parents so at least that is covered for me claiming SOME (albeit £100pm less than I am getting now) housing help - I was worried about not being able to claim housing but with us all on the agreement in black and white I am covered.

 

 

 

 

So your responsible for 1/3 of the rent then. 3 people on the lease, the DWP will take it as "all equally responsible"

So your rent your liable for is £255/month.

[essexmat]

No, I am responsible for half of the rent 1/2 as there are 2 rooms. UC calculator says I am entitled to shared rate. My parents who are a couple count as one on calculators as my Father gets 50% of the rent for parents room.

 

I am not arguing, I guess I have to wait and see what happens but shared rate is my entitlement.

 

When using the UC calculator I answered "joint tenants" and the calculation was correct

 

I do see where you are coming from, however, a couple counts as ONE (according to calculator) so the COUPLE is 1/2 of rent and I am the other half

[sgtbush]

So your parents claim is a joint one and yours is for a single person.

So they get more money (as a joint claim) and still expect you to pay a higher percentage of what your entitled to than they do?

 

If you cant see where Im going with this then ill stop posting.

 

Needless to say the DWP are right.

[essexmat]

https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/joint-tenants

Joint tenants

 

Housing Benefit if you share accommodation with a joint tenant

 

If you have a tenancy agreement where you and one or more other people are jointly liable for paying the rent then, in benefit terms, you are a joint tenant in shared accommodation. This will be the case where you have one tenancy agreement covering a number of people.

 

To work out how much you can claim in Housing Benefit you should enter the rent that you are meant to pay, not the whole rent. This will normally be the whole rent divided by the number of joint tenants. For instance, if three joint tenants pay a weekly rent for their accommodation of £150 per week then they can claim for £50 per week each in Housing Benefit. This is because each individual must claim for Housing Benefit according to their own circumstances.

 

If you are a couple you are classified as one claim for the purposes of Housing Benefit and only one person should apply for benefit.

If you rent in the private sector then the rent you can get help with can not exceed the Local Housing Allowance amount for your area. Because you share accommodation you will qualify for the shared room rate of Local Housing Allowance. For more information see Local Housing Allowance.

 

The rules for claiming Council Tax Support are broadly similar to the rules for Housing Benefit. In general you should divide your Council Tax liability by number of joint tenants. However, where a jointly liable person is exempt from Council Tax the calculation becomes more complex and you should contact your local council for more information.

 

You should also check what is not included as eligible rent, as defined under Housing Benefit rent rules.

[essexmat]

At the end of the day I can only sort this out properly once I am forced on to UC

[sgtbush]

This will normally be the whole rent divided by the number of joint tenants. For instance, if three joint tenants pay a weekly rent for their accommodation of £150 per week then they can claim for £50 per week each in Housing Benefit

 

 

Your all joint tnents.

You should each be paying 33.33%

 

Therefore you should pay £255/month as yourrent is £765

[essexmat]

Then how do I get £382.50pm now?

 

I am not here to argue, I am here to understand and clarify.

 

If your argument is correct why do I get 50% now?!

[sgtbush]

You shouldn't.

 

What did you tell them on your claim?

Did you say "there are 3 adults jointly and severably liable on the lease"

Or your responsible for half of the rent as there are two rooms and you occupy 1

[honeybee13]

sgtbush, do you have experience of UC please?

 

HB

[essexmat]

You shouldn't.

 

Ah so you are guessing about the rules? It seems YOU do not know as much as you think you know then as I have always got what I have even when I last claimed HB 4 years ago

 

You shouldn't.

 

What did you tell them on your claim?

Did you say "there are 3 adults jointly and severably liable on the lease"

Or your responsible for half of the rent as there are two rooms and you occupy 1

 

Well they saw the tenancy agreement and know all my personal circumstances and it has NEVER been flagged - the end

[sgtbush]

No need to guess.

I reposted what you had posted.

The rules are clear.

You posted the dwp rules.

 

HB yes I do, my Mrs works as a senior manager in the DWP on JSA/ESA HB compliance. I've just asked her.

[essexmat]

So she, or you, has no knowledge of UC? That is all