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    • Welcome to the National Consumer Service Buying any goods or any services??? A used car? - Paying by cash or bank transfer??? - BIG Fail!Share the love – Tell a friend about the Consumer Action Group - your National Consumer ServiceAre you buying a used car...? Protect yourself – read our used car guideESSENTIAL:: Read our Customer Services Guide!!!Twitter - Why you should open a Twitter account ESSENTIAL:: Read our Customer Services Guide!!!Have we helped you today...? Please help the CAG Had a car accident? Been offered a courtesy car?Follow @Real_CAG Parcel Delivery Insurance is Unlawful - The TimesWhy don't you change your profile picture?? Problem with utilities company or phone/broadband? Begin by sending a statutory request for your personal data. It’s free    Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.× Financial Legal Issues Complete My Profile Dismiss Next Step: Profile Photo (Profile Photo and Cover Photo) Your profile is 0% complete! Twitter X - Include the @company's twitter name in your post title – here's why… The UK Stands With Ukraine - 'Slava Ukraini' Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.  You have received a Court Claim ISSUED IN ENGLAND & WALES What you need to do Rate this topic By citizenB March 4, 2014 in Financial Legal Issues style="text-align: center;">     Thread Locked because no one has posted on it for the last 3638 days. If you need to add something to this thread then   Please click the "Report " link   at the bottom of one of the posts.   If you want to post a new story then Please Start your own new thread That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help    Thanks   citizenB Posted March 4, 2014 #1   The questionnaires below provide important information which will allow us to help you. In order to use them, you will have to copy them into your own post and then give us the answers – preferably in red below each question. You can start by overwriting the prompt: "Give answer here" below each question – and your responses should automatically appear in red   Thank you +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++   You have received a claim form.   firstly - read all the posts in this thread FIRST...   then copy this first msg to your thread - and put your answer after each question   In order for us to help you we require the following information:- [if there are more than one defendant listed - tell us]     Which Court have you received the claim from ? Name County Court   MCOL Northampton N1 ? Manual Claim CCMCC (Salford) ? New beta WWW.MONEYCLAIMS.SERVICE.GOV.UK ?   If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. (not the response page or AOS)     Name of the Claimant ? Give answer here   How many defendant's  joint or self ? Give answer here   Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. Give answer here   ^^^^^ NOTE : WHEN CALCULATING THE TIMELINE - PLEASE REMEMBER THAT THE DATE ON THE CLAIMFORM IS ONE IN THE COUNT [example: Issue date 01.03.2014 + 19 days (5 days for service + 14 days to acknowledge) = 19.03.2014 + 14 days to submit defence = 02.04.2014] = 33 days in total   Date of issue XX + 19 days ( 5 day for service + 14 days to acknowledge) = XX + 14 days to submit defence = XX (33 days in total)  if your defence filing date falls on a W/End, you must file by friday @4PM     Particulars of Claim   What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? Please type out their particulars of claim in full (verbatim) less any identifiable data and round the amounts up/down. state how many digits the account number has.. Give answer here   What is the total value of the claim? Give answer here   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Give answer here   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? Give answer here   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? Give answer here Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Give answer here   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? Give answer here   Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Give answer here   Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Give answer here   Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Give answer here   Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Give answer here   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Give answer here   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Give answer here   Why did you cease payments? Give answer here   What was the date of your last payment? Give answer here   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Give answer here   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Give answer here   What you need to do now.   Answer the questions above   If you have not already done so – send a CCA request to the claimant for a copy of your agreement (If Applicable) (except for Overdraft/ Mobile/Telephone accounts)   Send a CPR31.14 request to the solicitor named on the claim form for copies of documents mentioned/implied within the claim form. There are two different versions - one for Loans/Credit cards the other for Current accounts   Request 1 - Loans/Credit Cards     Request 2 - Current Accounts     You may use a CPR part 18 request for any other information (not request documents) that you might require in order to defend yourself. Please note that CPR 18 is specifically for Fast Track claims and although technically the claim has yet to be allocated to a track the claimant may refuse to comply for this reason.   If you require CPR Part 18 - this will need to be drafted specifically.   If you are not planning on defending for one reason or another – then you will need to complete an Income and Expenditure form and contact the Solicitor with your proposal. The N9a is already enclosed in the claim pack for Admittance which should be sent to the solicitor named on the claim form   If you are considering making a partial admittance N9b must be completed and returned to the court. Please note in most cases a partial admittance will result in an automatic CCJ for the amount admitted.   You have received a Claim - What you need to do.pdf1.33 MB · 242 downloads     Before Printing the PDF TIP   If you DO NOT wish to print Page 1 (Cover Page) of the PDF, please ensure to do the following:   Ensure you go to your Printer Settings and set it to 'Print from Page 2' (this way Page 1 (Cover Page) should not print out).   Note: This will save you Ink & Paper     Bookmark   Report 3 weeks later...   AndyOrch Posted March 20, 2014 #2   Once you receive a Court Summons N1   As a defendant in a small claims case it is important that you act quickly and do not ignore the claim form when it arrives. Remember, the claim will proceed anyway even if you don’t respond. If the claim goes against you, it will be very difficult to make a counter claim as you didn’t respond to the initial small claim.   You may be unaware that you are the defendant in a small claims case that a Creditor has bought against you. When the small claims form arrives follow these initial steps:   1: Read the Form Carefully   The detail about the claim that is being bought against you will be in the ‘particulars of claim’ section. If this section isn't completed, or has the words ‘particulars of claim to follow’ take no action now and wait until you are sent details of the claim against you. You may want to consult a lawyer at this stage.   2: Respond in Time   It’s vitally important that you respond to the claim for you have been sent. Remember that there is a 19 day (5 +14) time limit on this to acknowledge the claim.You must submit before the 19 days are up, so post your response with plenty of time.If your intention is to defend the claim in full you get a further 14 days to submit your response ...so 33 days in total.   3: Talk to the Claimant   Just because a small claim has been bought against you and a claim form issued, this doesn’t mean you are not allowed to contact the claimant directly. In fact the court encourages you to try and settle the claim without the need for a court appearance. So, try and resolve your dispute directly with the claimant if you can.   Not Responding to a Small Claim   If you ignore the small claims form when it arrives this can have an adverse impact on your financial status. The court will continue with the small claims lawsuit that is being bought against you even in your absence as this is a legal requirement. When the small claim is processed you will be sent a bill showing the amount you owe and any additional costs. The small claims against you is a legal process that will be recorded on the Register of Judgements, Orders and Fines. This information is used to check your credit, so could have a negative impact when you next apply for any credit. To avoid damaging your credit rating reply to your small claims docket as soon as you can.   How to Respond to Your Small Claims Form   When you received your form from the court you will also have been sent a response pack. In this pack you will see the option that are open to you. These include:   • A dispute claim form. You can use this form if you do not agree that you are liable for the small claim being bought against you and wish to submit a Defence. • Details about how to pay the amount being claimed from you. • Details about how to admit to part of the small claim against you, and how you can ask the claimant for more time to pay.   There are Two Types of Small Claims:   Fixed Amounts:   If the claim against you is for a fixed amount of money your response pack will contain three forms. Form N9 (acknowledgement of Service), form N9A (admission form) and N9B (defence and counterclaim form).   Unspecified Amounts:   If the amount being claimed is unspecified you will be sent forms N9 and N9C (admission form) and N9D (defence and counterclaim form). It is vital that you read the accompanying explanatory notes before choosing which form to send back.   Paying the Small Claim   If you want to make full payment of the amount being claimed against you this amount will be shown on the claim for you have been sent, and will also have details about where to send the money. Don’t forget, this must be done within the 14 day time limit or your case will proceed to the next stage.   In some instances you would like to pay, but need more time, you can give details about the delay you would like on form N9A, which should be in your response pack. It’s also a good idea to read leaflet EX309: The Defendant Admits by claim as this gives more details on this aspect of your case when fixed amounts of money are involved. Leaflet EX308 gives details of cases when unspecified amounts are being claimed against you.   Also please read forms EX326 and EX160A   How to Defend a Claim Against You   Disputed claims are handled by filling in the appropriate form from your response pack. You have three choices: Form N9, N9B or N9D. Read the note accompanying each form carefully to ensure you completely correctly. Pay special attention to the allegations raised on the form. If you don’t respond to each the court will assume you are admitting guilt. Edited April 10, 2014 by stu007 Updated PDF added    1   Bookmark   Report 2 months later...   citizenB   Posted June 5, 2014 #3   PLEASE NOTE - WARNING   Once you have received your claim form - the Court timetable comes into force. Not that of the creditor or claimant. If you have requested information with them after the claim has been issued - or have entered into discussion with them and they say something like "We will put this on hold for a period of time". You cannot and must not ignore the timetable from the court.   This thread should serve as an example   http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?416202&p=4547677#post4547677   The OP in the case above was in communication with the CAG Vodafone rep. A claim was issued during this time. The Rep in good faith said he would ask the Claimant to put things on hold.... they did not.. the OP ignored advice from caggers to continue with the court timetable and did not submit a defence. The claimaint obtained a Judgment by default. Edited June 5, 2014 by citizenB     Bookmark   Report 3 yr AndyOrch changed the title to You have received a Court Claim ISSUED IN ENGLAND & WALES What you need to do   style="text-align: center;">     Thread Locked because no one has posted on it for the last 3638 days. If you need to add something to this thread then   Please click the "Report " link   at the bottom of one of the posts.   If you want to post a new story then Please Start your own new thread That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help    Thanks  This topic is now closed to further replies.  Share Follow3 Go to topic listing Next unread topic Recently Browsing   1 Cagger hugo1963 1,380 Members Viewed hugo1963 4 minutes ago   lolerz 4 hours ago   vicr76 8 hours ago   Moomoo11 Friday at 18:18   London1971 Friday at 11:26   AndyOrch Friday at 11:13   mollie5549 Thursday at 17:21   zyghom Thursday at 13:26   Magnusinfinity May 15   Newdogg06 May 14   Unique May 13   saberguy May 12   Mycathasfleas May 12   WantJustice May 9   Rain clouds May 8   MoltoModerato May 3   George2024 May 1   Badtimes123 April 30   LouLouDev79 April 29   northmonk April 29   mowbli April 29   WornOut55 April 27   paulhn757 April 24   UsedCarMan April 23   robertobaggio April 23   marksheff April 20   anotheruser0000 April 19   TT98 April 18   gatoradeqaz April 17   Murielme2 April 15   Frontera mixup April 11   BreadAndButter April 9   Karalius April 9   nurjeon03 April 9   Penglings April 8   Nick April 8   Edals April 5   thesixco April 1   lifttheveil March 30   dx100uk March 30   Stripeycat March 28   jon8214 March 27   sharkieuk March 25   HappyHolidays March 24   sandokan March 22   SimplyBeyondWords March 22   supernick90 March 20   iyam71 March 20   Nicky Boy March 18   StoryBoard March 18   Myth_007 March 15   kaze March 12   RodeMan March 8   eskimo123 March 7   JEDIKNIGHTS March 6   persha50 March 6   tobzas March 6   lancashirelad93 March 6   HappyDay2222 March 3   1penny March 3   nat8808 March 2   FTMDave March 1   lynzmeek February 25   Mike Mechanic February 25   Ethel Street February 24   Outoftoon February 23   anna may February 22   PJB5 February 22   iamgnome February 21   SweetCaroline February 20   EdinburghDude February 19   Grgw44 February 18   linbren03 February 15   whittymags February 9   flembo45 February 7   comebackjimmy February 6   MontyIsInnocent February 4   libra007 February 1   Eamonn77 January 31   xtonehari January 30   hlh49421 January 30   ceeferace January 29   catscratch January 29   Melbel January 25   Suggababe January 19   yorkshire_lufc January 17   ljrobinson69 January 16   makkyinuk January 15   yogii January 14   MadMat January 12   rocky_sharma January 4   mrskippy21 January 3   lookinforinfo December 29, 2023   europa16 December 28, 2023   MrsSl December 27, 2023   KP44UK December 23, 2023   Montego December 22, 2023   Worazz December 21, 2023   StopTheBullies December 21, 2023   hitman126 December 20, 2023   +1280 More   Have we helped you ...?                     Contact Us   Cookies Copyright Reclaim the Right Ltd - reg: 05783665Powered by Invision Community IPS spam blocked by CleanTalk.  
    • ITV News have got hold of an email and recording of a phone call between Vennells and Ron Warmington of Second Sight. People in the know are saying it's smoking gun everyone's been looking for. I love that this has come out the day before she appears at the inquiry. This should be interesting under oath. Paula Vennells' 'smoking gun' email reveals Post Office 'cover-up' | ITV News WWW.ITV.COM ITV News has acquired an email and recording of a phone call that suggests the former Post Office boss was aware of issues with the Horizon system...  
    • I think you may as well take the opportunity in your letter to tell them that if they won't take responsibility for it then you will see quotations for the repair, provide copies of the quotations to them and then proceed with your own repair and recover the money back from them in the courts if necessary. Separately, can I ask you whether this is the car that you then bought unseen and at some distance from you? Has it come with an MOT and if so what date was the MOT and who gave it the MOT? Have you read our used car guide
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Claim for your inconvenience too?


notlam
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I made a point for discussion yesterday here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/47327-why-not-claim-maximum.html

 

In hindsight I agree I made it very clumsily and I apologised at the time.

 

I still believe the underlying point though is a valid one in that there is a justification in claiming more than just the amount unlawfully taken by the bank, the interest and an amount for inconvenience and that by doing so this could add more pressure on the banks.

 

In my view this point is backed up by the Chief of the Financial Ombudsman Service, Walter Merricks remarked publicly that "banks should accept that their charges are unfair and refund them when customers first complain, rather than resorting to delaying tactics and bargaining over how much they should refund."

 

In addition the FOS announced in a briefing note in November 2001, "we consider it important that financial service providers who cause distress or inconvenience, on top of any financial loss, should compensate them for it." And it goes on to say "Inconvenience can include any expenditure of time and/or effort by the customer that has resulted from the firm's conduct." And, "it can include severe disruption and a great deal of wasted time."

 

If banks insist on continuing choosing to use the legal process to delay and deter claimants it seems only right to me that they should have to pay a higher price for doing so and that such a price could be justified in terms of claiming for the many hours spent by you, the customer, in writing letters and dealing with the long drawn-out process of getting your money back. If the bank then decides to challenge this part of the claim then it will, I assume (please correct me on this if I am wrong), ultimately force them to turn up at court one day. Once in court, surely they can be asked to explain their charges. I agree it is a risky strategy that not all are willing to take but to some including me, it might be. I would like to know what others think.

 

 

I feel this point is worth debating seriously. I hope it can be this time without accusing me of being a fraudster and a criminal.

Lloyds TSB - £3,300.00 + £250.00 from FOS.

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED***

 

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Sadly i think you don't have a legal leg to stand on.

 

To claim for something you haver to have some evidence of loss or damage as i understand it.

 

Whilst you can argue all you like about how inconvenient they have made the repayment of the unlawful charges, it doesn't matter unless you can show some loss with evidence to support it.

 

Even when you consider those who have suffered losses in fact, e.g. a self employed person having to attend court maybe, there are provision in law for the reclamation of those costs, or at least a portion of them.

 

Inconvenient it may be, but can you prove and quantify the inconvenience sufficient you show a financial loss outside of what the courts already cater for?

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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Inconvenient it may be, but can you prove and quantify the inconvenience sufficient you show a financial loss outside of what the courts already cater for?

 

Here's a log of my manual intervention. I am not a bank. I don't have an automated system to generate automatic responses. I even have to walk to the post office to buy a stamp and walk back again:

 

12/02/06 - Letter written & posted to bank to complain about unfair charges made over a six year period. (30 minutes)

17/02/06 - Reply received from bank - removing my overdraft facility and increasing the rate of interest charged. (15 minutes)

18/02/06 - Research web. Enter comment on CAG web site (logged) for advice on this issue (60 minutes)

27/02/06 - Reply received from bank - refund refused. (15 minutes)

06/06/06 - Letter written & posted to bank to request refund, in light of OFT statement. (30 minutes)

08/06/06 - Reply received from bank - refund refused. Final response.(15 minutes)

10/06/06 - Letter written & posted to bank requesting list of all charges. (30 minutes)

10/06/06 - Research web. Enter comment on CAG web site (logged) for advice on this issue (45 minutes)

21/06/06 - Letter written & posted to bank - requesting refund. (30 minutes)

28/06/06 - Reply received from bank - agreeing to provide details of charges. (15 minutes)

10/06/06 - Research web. Enter comment on CAG web site (logged) for advice on this issue (45 minutes)

15/07/06 - Letter written & posted to bank - claiming charges. (15 minutes)

21/07/06 - Reply received from bank - refusing refund and declining to add any further comment. (15 minutes)

21/07/06 - Research web. Enter comment on CAG web site (logged) for advice on this issue (60 minutes)

22/07/06 - Letter written & posted to bank - Letter before action requesting refund and interest. (45 minutes)

27/07/06 - Reply received from bank - enclosing copies of six years statements. (15 minutes)

27/07/06 - Studied six years statements and identified and listed penalty charges (180 minutes).

27/07/06 - Reply received from bank - Refused to discuss any further. (15 minutes)

28/07/06 - Research web. Enter comment on CAG web site (logged) for advice on this issue (90 minutes)

22/08/06 - Claim issued in County Court. (45 minutes).

22/08/06 - Research web. Enter comment on CAG web site (logged) for advice on this issue (60 minutes)

25/08/06 - Letter received from court giving Notice that Acknowledgement of Service Has Been Filed and informing me that bank intends to defend all of the claim. (15 minutes).

25/08/06 - Research web. Enter comment on CAG web site (logged) for advice on this issue (15 minutes)

26/08/06 - Research web. Enter comment on CAG web site (logged) for advice on this issue (90 minutes)

30/08/06 - Letter sent to Court requesting amendment to claim. (15 minutes)

01/09/06 - Letter received from Court enclosing form N244 to request changes. (15 minutes)

05/09/06 - Application Notice sent to Court to amend changes. (30 minutes)

28/09/06 - Letter sent to Court with Certificate of Service and amended Claim form. (30 minutes)

22/10/06 - N157 from court requesting copies of all documents be sent to all parties. (30 minutes)

22/10/06 - Research web. Enter comment on CAG web site (logged) for advice on this issue (90 minutes)

28/10/06 - 180 pages of documents prepared (120 minutes)

30/10/06 - 360 pages of documents copied at 10p each (30 minutes)

18/10/06 - Request for Judgement sent to Court. (no charge!)

 

Total time = 1,350 minutes

22.5 hours @ £9.25 = £208.12

Printing & Copier fees: 540 pages @ £0.10 = £54.00

Postage = £18.50

 

Total amount claimed: £280.62

Lloyds TSB - £3,300.00 + £250.00 from FOS.

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED***

 

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Guest Battleaxe

If only we could claim for the time we have put into recovering our charges. The cost of the phone calls ringing the 0845 numbers at national rate should be added. After all a solicitor charges for every letter written, time taken in consultation, and phone calls, so why can't we, if it is logged correctly? may be we should add this to our letter of demand and remind them that this will be added to the court claim? You never know.

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By all means have a go at claiming back for inconvenience. But I wouldn't try to be too greedy in the amount you are trying to claim

I put down £50 for the inconvenience during my Natwest claim for -

- Document preperation (around 6 letters)

- Ink usage

- Paper

- Advice

- Stamps

etc

I got the £50 I asked for and no questions were asked

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The cost of the phone calls ringing the 0845 numbers at national rate should be added.

 

Oh yes. I forgot about all the phone calls. But then these are logged on my phone bill too. So that's not difficult either.

Lloyds TSB - £3,300.00 + £250.00 from FOS.

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED***

 

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But I wouldn't try to be too greedy in the amount you are trying to claim

 

I dont believe it is a question of being too greedy. The log is factual. The time you've spent is real. So are the expenses.

 

Trouble is, where the banks are concerned, for years we've felt guilty about our dealings with them and that we're in the wrong.

 

Well I dont any more and it feels good.

Lloyds TSB - £3,300.00 + £250.00 from FOS.

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED***

 

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Just as long as you have all the evidence at the ready of what the Inconvenience Costs you are claiming are in case they ask for a breakdown of these costs to support your claim.

 

I have all the evidence at the ready; letters, phone bills, postage receipts, thread print-outs, my court documents, etc.

 

I dont expect I'll ever be called to present it though because, from what I can tell from reading the experience of others here, the banks dont seem to like actually showing up at court to discuss this whole issue of charges.

Lloyds TSB - £3,300.00 + £250.00 from FOS.

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED***

 

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Inconvenient it may be, but can you prove and quantify the inconvenience sufficient you show a financial loss outside of what the courts already cater for?

 

Here's a log of my manual intervention. I am not a bank. I don't have an automated system to generate automatic responses. I even have to walk to the post office to buy a stamp and walk back again:

 

12/02/06 - Letter written & posted to bank to complain about unfair charges made over a six year period. (30 minutes)

17/02/06 - Reply received from bank - removing my overdraft facility and increasing the rate of interest charged. (15 minutes)

18/02/06 - Research web. Enter comment on CAG web site (logged) for advice on this issue (60 minutes)

27/02/06 - Reply received from bank - refund refused. (15 minutes)

06/06/06 - Letter written & posted to bank to request refund, in light of OFT statement. (30 minutes)

08/06/06 - Reply received from bank - refund refused. Final response.(15 minutes)

10/06/06 - Letter written & posted to bank requesting list of all charges. (30 minutes)

10/06/06 - Research web. Enter comment on CAG web site (logged) for advice on this issue (45 minutes)

21/06/06 - Letter written & posted to bank - requesting refund. (30 minutes)

28/06/06 - Reply received from bank - agreeing to provide details of charges. (15 minutes)

10/06/06 - Research web. Enter comment on CAG web site (logged) for advice on this issue (45 minutes)

15/07/06 - Letter written & posted to bank - claiming charges. (15 minutes)

21/07/06 - Reply received from bank - refusing refund and declining to add any further comment. (15 minutes)

21/07/06 - Research web. Enter comment on CAG web site (logged) for advice on this issue (60 minutes)

22/07/06 - Letter written & posted to bank - Letter before action requesting refund and interest. (45 minutes)

27/07/06 - Reply received from bank - enclosing copies of six years statements. (15 minutes)

27/07/06 - Studied six years statements and identified and listed penalty charges (180 minutes).

27/07/06 - Reply received from bank - Refused to discuss any further. (15 minutes)

28/07/06 - Research web. Enter comment on CAG web site (logged) for advice on this issue (90 minutes)

22/08/06 - Claim issued in County Court. (45 minutes).

22/08/06 - Research web. Enter comment on CAG web site (logged) for advice on this issue (60 minutes)

25/08/06 - Letter received from court giving Notice that Acknowledgement of Service Has Been Filed and informing me that bank intends to defend all of the claim. (15 minutes).

25/08/06 - Research web. Enter comment on CAG web site (logged) for advice on this issue (15 minutes)

26/08/06 - Research web. Enter comment on CAG web site (logged) for advice on this issue (90 minutes)

30/08/06 - Letter sent to Court requesting amendment to claim. (15 minutes)

01/09/06 - Letter received from Court enclosing form N244 to request changes. (15 minutes)

05/09/06 - Application Notice sent to Court to amend changes. (30 minutes)

28/09/06 - Letter sent to Court with Certificate of Service and amended Claim form. (30 minutes)

22/10/06 - N157 from court requesting copies of all documents be sent to all parties. (30 minutes)

22/10/06 - Research web. Enter comment on CAG web site (logged) for advice on this issue (90 minutes)

28/10/06 - 180 pages of documents prepared (120 minutes)

30/10/06 - 360 pages of documents copied at 10p each (30 minutes)

18/10/06 - Request for Judgement sent to Court. (no charge!)

 

Total time = 1,350 minutes

22.5 hours @ £9.25 = £208.12

Printing & Copier fees: 540 pages @ £0.10 = £54.00

Postage = £18.50

 

Total amount claimed: £280.62

 

I would certainly give it a try. The log you have produced seems reasonable and you wouldn't be doing it if they hadn't charged you in the firstplace. As long as you can show the Court that all this is genuine loss on your part you should get it. You must be prepared to stand up at Court and convince the judge that it reasonable though.

 

I've just sent a prelim to a bank for over £8K of charges that go back 11 years. I've added at the end of the letter a line to the effect that I won't be pursuing any costs in relation to the large amount of time and effort I've been put to in working out the claim (working out the interst on each individual charge took several hours) and researching the law in return for their quick settlement, but that if it came to Court action I would be asking the Court to award a resonable amount to compensate me for this. I think someone mentioned a while ago that a reasonable charge for a ly person to apply would be half the rate for a newly qualified profesional to do the work.

 

P.

Northern Rock; S.A.R sent 11/8/06 - Delivered. Recieved details of 6 yrs charges on 8th. Wrote back asking whether or not they hold information going back further than that.

MBNA; S.A.R sent 11/8/06 - Delivered 14/8/06

Barclays; S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request sent 11/8/06 - Del 14/8/06

Diners Club; S.A.R sent 11/8/06 - Delivered 14/8/06. Recieved form to fill and return with fee on 17/8/06. Sent form back, delivered 4/9/06.

Intelligent Finance; Prelim letter emailed 16/08/06, claiming £318. Email recieved from "Anne-Marie" 17/8/06 saying my email has been passed to Customer Relations dept. Fob-off letter received 23/8/06, letter sent in return same day - Delivered 24/8/6 Recieved letter offer 25% settelement - refused - LBA sent. MCOL on 10th revcieved notification that they intend to defend on 13th. 06/9/2006 WON!!!!!!

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The log you have produced doersnt show 'inconvenience', it shows your expenditure of time and money.

 

If you are going small claims you almost certainly wont get it (with the exception of court costs), if your going fast track your entitled to claim costs.

 

'inconveinece' is more to do with hassle and is subjective not objective or measureable.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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The log you have produced doersnt show 'inconvenience', it shows your expenditure of time and money.

 

'inconveinece' is more to do with hassle and is subjective not objective or measureable.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

 

I am only going by the Financial Ombudsman Service's own public briefing statement in November 2001, which, as stated in my opening thread, was:

 

"Inconvenience can include any expenditure of time and/or effort by the customer that has resulted from the firm's conduct." And, "it can include severe disruption and a great deal of wasted time."

Lloyds TSB - £3,300.00 + £250.00 from FOS.

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED***

 

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As far as I can tell what you have listed is expenditure or in other words 'costs' and wont be allowed in the SCC.

 

If you find any case law that says different it would be good for all those claiming in SCC.

 

Seems to me your trying to increase the value of your claim, 1st it was the financial ombudsman and now its 'inconvenience' in the SCC.

 

If your claiming via the ombudsman, and i thought you had ruled that out, then go by their rules. If you are using the Courts then you have to use their rules and i think if you produce this list in court they will view it as costs because thats what it is and unless you're in fast track or higher you cant claim your costs.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

 

PS Id be glad to be proved wrong, but the whole basis of SCC is to provide a forum where the small bloke can fight against the big bloke without being out bidded by a big legal bill.

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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Don't forget, all you are legally entitled to under contract is actual damages and consequential loss. Mere inconvenience is not usually recoverable under contract. That is more of a tort action.

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I think the argument is that the "costs" concerned are actually losses flowing directly from the unlawful actions of the banks in making the charge in the first place and so are a legitimate part of your whole claim. It is expenditure you cannot avoid if you want to claim your money back. The analogy would be if someone had taken your car and dumped it at the other end of the Country. You could not avoid having to spend money getting it back so would have a perfectly justifyable claim against the thief.

 

With our claims it is impossible to get our money back at zero expense to us so there must be some reasonable compensation allowed.

 

The prohibition on claiming costs in the SCC is so that one party to an action cannot hire exorbitantly expensive lawyers as a way of intimidating the other into submission. This is especially important in small claims where the figures in question are...well...small, and would be eaten up by legal fees.

 

If it's a genuine loss caused to you then I say claim it. However, you must be sure that you are quite happy to stand up in Court and justify it. The judge may not allow it but if you have been honest and genuine in your request it probably won't affect the rest of your claim. If the judge feels you are yanking his chain though he may well throw the lot out.

 

P.

Northern Rock; S.A.R sent 11/8/06 - Delivered. Recieved details of 6 yrs charges on 8th. Wrote back asking whether or not they hold information going back further than that.

MBNA; S.A.R sent 11/8/06 - Delivered 14/8/06

Barclays; S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request sent 11/8/06 - Del 14/8/06

Diners Club; S.A.R sent 11/8/06 - Delivered 14/8/06. Recieved form to fill and return with fee on 17/8/06. Sent form back, delivered 4/9/06.

Intelligent Finance; Prelim letter emailed 16/08/06, claiming £318. Email recieved from "Anne-Marie" 17/8/06 saying my email has been passed to Customer Relations dept. Fob-off letter received 23/8/06, letter sent in return same day - Delivered 24/8/6 Recieved letter offer 25% settelement - refused - LBA sent. MCOL on 10th revcieved notification that they intend to defend on 13th. 06/9/2006 WON!!!!!!

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If the judge feels you are yanking his chain though he may well throw the lot out.

 

P.

 

Thanks Phantom for a positive contribution, at last. I was beginning to wonder if I was being ambushed by double-agents.

 

Whether the judge would agree, or not, seems almost irrelevant any way because the bank wont turn up to face the music. They seem to like court rooms about as much as Lord Lucan.

 

I would actually like the bank to turn up.

 

With regard to the point about the judge throwing the whole thing out, why would he have grounds to do that? He would either allow, or disallow, that specific part of the claim. The rest of the claim would still stand.

Lloyds TSB - £3,300.00 + £250.00 from FOS.

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED***

 

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I feel people should claim substantial amounts for not only costs in preparing actions but, for damage to health caused by stress related disorders. First get to the doctor and tell him/her your suffering stress caused by the shear worry of having to take a Bank to court for what is rightfully yours.

 

This is what "there is another way Bank did to us": They wanted to put a top class top priced accounting company in to access our business, remember we are utilising an over draft which was fully guaranteed by a property! The cost of their accountants had to be paid by us at a rate of around 450 to 600 per day. They refused to release our securities against money due to the company thus, preventing us re arranging finance with another Bank, finally we had to bring in a receiver and down a good business, one which was turning almost 1 million per year and was in profit. If this helps anyone: A receiver can only reverse actions up to 6 months pervious to liquidation, the first thing Nat West were looking for was our patents and trademarks which they didn't get.

 

The whole banking deal is wheels within wheels, our then manager said "he knew a company who might be interested in our business" Great! Now, I was so angry having worked for 12 years to build the business, I went to a solicitor, the cost of taking on the Bank was fantastic like 35K to get things started consequently, no point and we couldnt afford investigating accountants.

 

You simply can't trust a Bank in this country, they are short term, short sited and mostly evil. So when I have finished preparing my claim for charges i will be adding at least 5k for the agro! and Nat West your next on my list.

 

Sorry for the ramble hehe:)

Donate to keep this site open

 

Any help or advice is offered as just that, help and advice without any liability. If in doubt consult a legal expert or CAB.

 

Make Cash Flow Forecast

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Thanks Phantom for a positive contribution, at last. I was beginning to wonder if I was being ambushed by double-agents.

 

Just because someone takes a contrary, and i believe a valid viewpoint, doesn't mean they're batting for the other side.

 

Whether the judge would agree, or not, seems almost irrelevant any way because the bank wont turn up to face the music.

 

If you prepare on this basis you are acting under a false premise. You should look around at other cases where the controversial bits are being challenged without the banks needing to fight the important bits. J2B and LIPs are two who i think are finding this out with quite legitimate elements of their claims.

 

I would actually like the bank to turn up.

[/ quote]

 

Why?

 

Unless your a practising QC you should consider the best option to be one where they pay you without the possibility to loose in court.

 

If you are thinking your claim is so right that it cant loose, then your misunderstanding how the law and courts work.

 

I think PR is wrong about his assessment of the costs as losses. If thats the case then the other sides solicitors costs are losses and if they were to win you could be exposed to a counter claim for their losses based on the cost of defending the claim against them in the SCC.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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I even have to walk to the post office to buy a stamp and walk back again

 

Oh, now that's a stretch. :rolleyes:

HSBCLloyds TSBcontractual interestNew Tax Creditscoming for you?NTL/Virgin Media

 

Never give in ... Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Churchill, 1941

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Whether the judge would agree, or not, seems almost irrelevant any way because the bank wont turn up to face the music.

 

The banks have turned up to challenge parts of claim that do not relate to charges - they will pay out the charges element of your claim and challenge the rest - even contractual interest see here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mercantile-court-cases-stays/36034-case-management-conference-13th.html

Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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I would actually like the bank to turn up.

[/ quote]

 

Why?

 

Glenn

 

Why?

 

Because I might learn something.

Because there is nothing to be scared of. I am telling the truth.

Because I am not willing to be intimidated and take any more cr@p from my bank.

 

Thanks for pointing out the potential down side though. ;)

Lloyds TSB - £3,300.00 + £250.00 from FOS.

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED***

 

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The banks have turned up to challenge parts of claim that do not relate to charges - they will pay out the charges element of your claim and challenge the rest - even contractual interest

 

Well if they do turn up at court and if they do successfully challenge the £280 part of my claim for inconvenience and expense then I will just have to content myself in the knowledge that it cost them far more than that to do so.

 

I suppose that means, on that bit, we'll just about be quits then.

Lloyds TSB - £3,300.00 + £250.00 from FOS.

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED***

 

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Whether the judge would agree, or not, seems almost irrelevant any way because the bank wont turn up to face the music. They seem to like court rooms about as much as Lord Lucan.

 

You can't base your case on them not turning up. Everything you put in your claim you need to be able to defend at Court if necessary.

 

 

With regard to the point about the judge throwing the whole thing out, why would he have grounds to do that? He would either allow, or disallow, that specific part of the claim. The rest of the claim would still stand.

 

Ok, the judge probably wouldn't kick the whole thing out - it's still your money, however you may have acted as regards your claim. But, if you have added on a load of extra stuff that he feels is not representative of your losses and is purely there to stiff the bank for as much as possible I'm sure he will find some way to penalise you.

 

P.

Northern Rock; S.A.R sent 11/8/06 - Delivered. Recieved details of 6 yrs charges on 8th. Wrote back asking whether or not they hold information going back further than that.

MBNA; S.A.R sent 11/8/06 - Delivered 14/8/06

Barclays; S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request sent 11/8/06 - Del 14/8/06

Diners Club; S.A.R sent 11/8/06 - Delivered 14/8/06. Recieved form to fill and return with fee on 17/8/06. Sent form back, delivered 4/9/06.

Intelligent Finance; Prelim letter emailed 16/08/06, claiming £318. Email recieved from "Anne-Marie" 17/8/06 saying my email has been passed to Customer Relations dept. Fob-off letter received 23/8/06, letter sent in return same day - Delivered 24/8/6 Recieved letter offer 25% settelement - refused - LBA sent. MCOL on 10th revcieved notification that they intend to defend on 13th. 06/9/2006 WON!!!!!!

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You can't base your case on them not turning up. Everything you put in your claim you need to be able to defend at Court if necessary.

 

Ok, the judge probably wouldn't kick the whole thing out - it's still your money, however you may have acted as regards your claim. But, if you have added on a load of extra stuff that he feels is not representative of your losses and is purely there to stiff the bank for as much as possible I'm sure he will find some way to penalise you.

 

P.

 

Fair points Phantom.

 

I tend to be too flippant sometimes, which I know is not a good way to approach a potential day in court. It's also not helpful to others, who might be reading this thread and thinking of going down this route too. So, points taken.

 

I suppose the trouble is I won my first battle so easily against LTSB; they didn't even put up a fight. I know they wont all be like that.

 

I appreciate your comments and take on board your advice, and from others here, to plan for the worst, prepare thoroughly and to not take anything for granted. Thanks.

 

I'll let you know how it goes guys.

Lloyds TSB - £3,300.00 + £250.00 from FOS.

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED***

 

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