Arrow/shoos claimform - old M+S Credit Card Debt

[HP Mum]

HELP - I'm a little bit out of touch with legalities of fighting a claim against Shoos and would like some assistance - for a friend.

 

Friend took out a m&s card many years ago - like in the 80s.

Friend last made any payment against his card over 6 years ago.

 

 

M&S passed the debt on to Arrow

- which friend ignored

- and they then passed it on to Shoos

- who were also ignored.

 

Within a few weeks Shoos issued a Claim - almost 2w ago - via Northampton.

 

Friend has initially just done an on-line acknowledgement and advice that the Claim will be defended in full

- as it should be statute barred.

 

Is there anything else friend could do?

 

Like send a CCA request to Shoos?

 

Or send a CPR 31.14 ?

 

 

They did not attach any particulars with the Claim.

They also spelled his name wrong.

Is it still possible to send in a CPR on the basis that they probably wont be able to get the full card history from M&S

- within the specified time allotted by the CPR

- to prove the account and the debt really belongs to friend???

 

 

Is this still a viable means to ensure the Claim goes no further?

Even though friends considers the account is statute barred...

 

Friend is now overseas so Im trying to help out.

 

My opinion of Shoos is not good

- and I know they are quick to litigate and go for charging orders, so I want to help friend as best as I can.

Thanks

[AndyOrch]

Thread moved to the appropriate forum......if you could read the following link and then copy and paste the Qs and your responses back here for the best advice on how to proceed with the claim.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-2016**(1-Viewing)-nbsp

 

Regards

 

Andy

[HP Mum]

Name of the Claimant ? ARROW

 

Date of issue – 21/07

 

 

08/08 to acknowledge (friend already done this online from overseas)

 

 

think 22/08 for defence

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?

 

1. The claimants claim is for £x, being the monies due from the defendant to the claimant under a regulated agreement between the defendant and M&S (acc # xxx) and assigned to the Claimant on xx/44/13, notice of which has been provided to the defendant.

 

2. The defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served pursuant to the CCA 74.

 

3. The claimant claims the sum of £x

 

4. Claimant has complied, as far as necessary, with the pre-action conduct practice direction.

 

What is the value of the claim? £9.5k

 

The claim is - a credit card account

 

Entered into the original agreement - In the 80s

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor? - the account was assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim.

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

Maybe - but friend lives overseas and I cant check quickly. Claimant does not know friend lives overseas.

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Maybe - but need to check friends records.

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ?

Probably, but need to check.

 

Why did you cease payments? Friend been overseas for 10y

 

What was the date of your last payment? Over 6y ago (apx May 11)

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Don't know

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? NO friend didnt

 

Shoos have added court fees and legal rep costs to the Claim

- which have taken the Claim over 10k.

Does this mean it isn't within Small Claims?

[dx100uk]

so statute barred then.

[HP Mum]

so statute barred then.

 

So does he simply send the SB template letter to shoos - separately or as part of the defence?

And should he send cca to Arrow to ensure the dates. He did check bank statements which showed last payment over 6y ago

[dx100uk]

IMHO:

.

get a CCA Request running to the claimant

leave the £1PO blank and uncrossed

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

.

don't sign anything

.

you can do those HPMUM

 

 

let andy ok this

 

 

but I cant see any reason why he cant file our SB defence on mcol either now.

 

 

The following defence is all you need if it is SB

1 The Claimant's claim was issued on (insert date).

2 The Defendant contends that the Claimant's claim so issued is a claim in contract and is statute barred pursuant to the provisions of section 5 of the limitation act 1980.

.

If, which is denied, the claimant contends that the Defendant is in breach of the alleged contract, in excess of 6 years have elapsed since the date on which any cause of action for breach accrued for the benefit of the Claimant.

.

3 The Claimant's claim to be entitled to payment of £[insert figure from their POC] or any other sum, or relief of any kind is denied.

..

..ends..

[mercyblue]

If the friend has been abroad for 10 years how has the claimant been able to issue a claim considering a mcol claim must be to a uk address?

[HP Mum]

Thanks DX

I will advise friend now.

Do you mean that I, on his behalf, could send the cca and cpr letters ? I don't mind as long as it's OK.

 

Friend has a home in UK so post can go there. I've been a good friend and regularly gone to his place and checked mail all this time and emailed all things that need to be done/paid etc. Although that doesn't mean he does them! As in this case.

[dx100uk]

yes you can send the CCA/CPR just use his address ofcourse!

 

 

I was also wondering earlier as post 7.

if hes been resident abroad all these years..

he should have told them

[HP Mum]

Perhaps!!! He was only supposed to be away a few weeks and somehow it's been years...

[HP Mum]

I have drawn up a CPR 31.14 and a CCA for friend.

 

I have asked friend to double check the details

- but I have used the templates from the library here, and adapted to suit his account.

 

The claimant is the debt collection agent

- so in the CCA I added in the clause about 'if you don't think you are the creditor......'

Intention is to post on his behalf today/tomorrow....

 

Friend has acknowledged Claim on-line and contested it on basis of SB. So friend is in time.

 

Where can he find the reference to say MCOL has received his AOS?? He cant find it

[AndyOrch]

Not sure you get a receipt that its been acknowledged...only when you submit your defence.

 

Andy

[HP Mum]

Thanks Andy

 

Update:

I have submitted cca request to assigned debt collector and sent cpr 31 request to sols

- on behalf of friend.

 

Friend has filed AOS - intent to defend entire claim / statute barred

 

Just to clarify - do sols have 7 or 14 days to provide ALL credit card history requested via cpr?

 

And how long does assigned debt collector have to respond to cca?

 

Just one more thing:

If claim is below 10k but pushed over 10k with sols legal fees

- will it still be small claims track?? (If it ever gets that far?)

 

Also:

Perhaps I made a mistake

- the po was made out to debt collector and crossed.

(I forgot the post above by dx)

 

 

Was that wrong to do?

Or is it OK still?

 

Dx do you just best advise to leave blank and not crossed?

In case ownership of debt is questionable?

Or will it now get sent back for some reason?

[AndyOrch]

The time frame on a CPR is for guidance only as it's a civil request the claimant is not compelled to respond but will be taken into account when costs are determined.

 

As for track if both parties agree it could be placed in SCT.

 

Andy

[HP Mum]

Have the rules for sending a CPR 31.14 changed?

 

I just checked an old Halifax Claim that I successfully challenged in 2009.

The template letter then was slightly different then than the one in the library now.

 

 

The letter I used stated that the Claimant had 7 days to provide all info;

that Claimant could ask for an extension

-but only a further 14 days.

Have the time restraints been over-ruled since 09?

 

Should friend also send in cpr 18?

Claimant attached no docs with the claim.

 

And should friend send a separate letter, by post, to the sols stating the account is SB?

So far friend has only mentioned this in the AOS.

[AndyOrch]

Have the rules for sending a CPR 31.14 changed?

I just checked an old Halifx Claim that I successfully challenged in 2009. The template letter then was slightly different then than the one in the library now. The letter I used stated that the Claimant had 7 days to provide all info; that Claimant could ask for an extension -but only a further 14 days. Have the time restraints been over-ruled since 09?

 

Not changed always been the case..it's a civil request between parties...only a court can order disclosure..which follows the defence at at directions stage.

 

Should friend also send in cpr 18?

Claimant attached no docs with the claim.

 

Can't attach docs if issued through Northampton CBC...see above re disclosure

 

And should friend send a separate letter, by post, to the sols stating the account is SB? So far friend has only mentioned this in the AOS.

 

No let your defence answe the claim...not sure how he mentioned it whilst acknowledging service..it's tick box.

[HP Mum]

Sorry I was wrong - friend hasn't told Shoos or Arrow that their claim is sb.

 

Friend hasn't filed defence yet. Just done aos.

So should he do as dx said and write simple sb defence? Or send a separate letter to shoos?

Arrow been sent cca request and shoos cpr - by post - but nothing mentioned yet about their claim being sb.

[AndyOrch]

If its statute barred then simply submit the statute barred defence at the appropriate time.....

[HP Mum]

Friend forgot to tick box on AOS that he was Defendent. (Other options were sols etc) but he did put his name on the form. Will this be ok?

Also - should he wait to file defence until he gets a response from CCA and CPR? Or should he just file it anyway as it is SB ?

[dx100uk]

Just don't miss ruling deadline no matter what

[HP Mum]

Turns out friend has done Defence over night. Same thing - forgot to say he was Defendant rather than Sol or friend.

So he's in time But is he ok for not ticking box 5 that he's the Defendant ??? He did sign at end of form with his correct UK address

[dx100uk]

should be ok its obv who he is

online I take it at mcol?

[HP Mum]

Everything seems OK. Yes was mcol.

 

Have had responses.

Defence acknowledged by court.

Shoos have written - stated they have passed the CPR request for specific Docs back to the claimant (Arrow). Will be interested to see how long they take to find all the info...

They also suggested that they would be at liberty to get judgment - before replying with all the CPR requested info - if defence was not sent in by the required date for defence submission. (It was) That seems a cheeky statement - given the debt has been questioned.

 

Arrow have yet to reply to the cca request.

 

Just one thing - should friend send a separate SB letter direct to Arrow now? So they also realise friend considers it is more than 6y since last paid and their claim is void anyway...

 

For clarity - the defence submitted said it was SB.

I didn't read what friend wrote but he said he was going to follow my advice (rather cags!)

[AndyOrch]

Everything seems OK. Yes was mcol.

 

Have had responses.

Defence acknowledged by court.

Shoos have written - stated they have passed the CPR request for specific Docs back to the claimant (Arrow). Will be interested to see how long they take to find all the info...

They also suggested that they would be at liberty to get judgment - before replying with all the CPR requested info - if defence was not sent in by the required date for defence submission. (It was) That seems a cheeky statement - given the debt has been questioned. Not really thats procedure..if defence not submitted on time they request judgment

Arrow have yet to reply to the cca request. Good

 

Just one thing - should friend send a separate SB letter direct to Arrow now? No ...why? So they also realise friend considers it is more than 6y since last paid and their claim is void anyway...

 

Claim is not void until its be adjudged... follow the process as advised

 

Andy

[HP Mum]

Update

Friend received letter from Arrow - they have received cca

But they have returned the P Order

 

They say they don't accept they are the creditor as envisaged by the cca statute ??????

 

But they say they are "willing to assist in obtaining that which has been requested"

They say they "will process the cca request for Docs from the creditor and will revert"

They then say "all collection activity will be suspended pending provision of the docs".

 

So - where does this leave friend?

 

The MCOL doc said Arrow was the Creditor - and Shoos were making a claim for them against friend. But Arrow now say they aren't the creditor!

If Arrow now consider m&s are the creditor - does this mean the debt wasn't assigned? Even tho they said it was assigned?

 

And what should now be done with the P Order which was made out to Arrow? Do we get a refund or change it to M&S?

 

And what happens with the MCOL?

Friend submitted defence on time.

Will Shoos ask court to put the Claim on hold?

Or....???

 

In post 3 above it says that m&s assigned the debt to Arrow in April 13.

So if it was assigned 4y ago I don't understand why Arrow aren't the creditor.

Does it mean that - in my friend's favour - they don't have any of the docs in hand to prove the debt?