Administrative penalty notice- how do they expect us to pay?

[kayleigh89]

You were told the investigator would reccomend no further action, the decision maker decided differently.

 

 

Loads of people have no money and get sanctioned, they have to apply for hardship or borrow from people.

 

 

Count yourself lucky they are offering it instead of prosecution.

This is fraud we are talking about they don't take things lightly, especially as taxpayers these days believe everyone gets away with it.

[Shoelover]

Well I'm writing them a letter anyway as I feel that none of my mitigating circumstances were taken into account and I'm appalled to receive this after being so transparent at my IUC and being told no further action by the investigator minus the overpayment.

 

So please tell me

 

How are we meant to live and pay bills if they take our benefits off us for 4 weeks?

 

We have ZERO savings!

 

They have to be heartless after everything I told them.

 

I don't know how you are meant to live. I'm telling you the position from a practical point of view. Write a letter by all means and ask them to reconsider.

[dragon29]

I'd like them to actually take my mitigating circumstances into consideration because they haven't.

 

 

You were told the investigator would reccomend no further action, the decision maker decided differently. Loads of people have no money and get sanctioned, they have to apply for hardship or borrow from people. Count yourself lucky they are offering it instead of prosecution. This is fraud we are talking about they don't take things lightly, especially as taxpayers these days believe everyone gets away with it.

 

It isn't fraud. I was neglectful at best. If you knew EVERYTHING I told the investigator you'd think it was heartless too.

So no I won't 'count myself lucky' because I didn't commit fraud. There was no intent to deceive at all.

[kayleigh89]

They don't have to prove it was intentional unless they were going for dishonestly failing to notify. Sound's like yours is the lesser one which is failing to notify. Which they class as fraud regardless. I would say you are lucky as they have enough evidence to give you a criminal record. They may not suspend all of your benefits. Just ring them when you can or speak to cab.

[dragon29]

I did notify them.

 

Because of my mitigating circumstances which you can't judge because you don't know what they are I didn't CHASE IT UP!

 

I've ALWAYS sent payslips off. ALWAYS!!!

 

You are talking like I'm a criminal. Like I've killed several people.

[kayleigh89]

I never judge even if i know all of the facts. I too have been overpaid because i didn't know that i had to declare occassional overtime but mine was £212 and they underpaid me over £1000. I was convinced i would get iuc and was thinking the worst and lost sleep over it.

[dragon29]

Then you can understand why I'm worried they are going to leave us with no money then can't you?

 

Be careful before you start banding the term criminal or criminal record around.

 

I'm not a criminal. Never have been. Never will be.

[Shoelover]

I'd like them to actually take my mitigating circumstances into consideration because they haven't.

 

How much is the overpayment?

[dragon29]

£1500 - £44 a month paid from our benefits starting June 16th

 

How do they expect to get this overpayment if they are going to take away all of our benefits for 4 weeks?

[kayleigh89]

I'm not saying you're a criminal i said they can give you a criminal record if they chose to prosecute. If you don't accept this do you want to risk going to court which costs even more money?

[dragon29]

I'm not saying you're a criminal i said they can give you a criminal record if they chose to prosecute. If you don't accept this do you want to risk going to court which costs even more money?

 

The thing I'm MOST worried about is having NO money for four weeks. We won't be able to pay bills or the overpayment.

 

They can give me a criminal record for being neglectful in chasing it up due to mental health and other things I won't go into? Well they are heartless then.

[kayleigh89]

This is where you can apply for hardship and go to a food bank if you really need to. It makes sense to me that your sanction would offset the overpayment.

[Shoelover]

Be careful before you start banding the term criminal or criminal record around.

 

I'm not a criminal. Never have been. Never will be.

 

I don't think she did..

 

The recovery of the overpayment will happen either way. Have you appealed against it?

 

The ad pen is in respect of the alleged offence.

[dragon29]

I don't think she did..

 

The recovery of the overpayment will happen either way. Have you appealed against it?

 

The ad pen is in respect of the alleged offence.

 

I've accepted that the overpayment will happen. It starts on the 16th June.

 

This is where you can apply for hardship and go to a food bank if you really need to. It makes sense to me that your sanction would offset the overpayment.

 

I don't understand. We are paying the overpayment at £44 a month from 16th June.

[kayleigh89]

When you get sanctioned, they technically recovered the money for that month.

[dragon29]

When you get sanctioned, they technically recovered the money for that month.

 

I don't understand still. So we won't have all of the money taken off us?

 

Please can someone clear it up?

[kayleigh89]

I mean when you recieve an x amount each month. When they sanction you, you wont recieve a penny of it therfore they got back x amount. Im not sure it it works like that but its stupid if it doesn't.

[dragon29]

Now I'm reading that it's 14 weeks sanction for a first offence....

 

I'm so confused

 

There was no deceit in this at all

[Shoelover]

Now I'm reading that it's 14 weeks sanction for a first offence....

 

I'm so confused

 

There was no deceit in this at all

Only for organised and high value overpayments

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/loss-of-benefit-as-a-penalty-for-benefit-fraud/loss-of-benefit-as-a-penalty-for-benefit-fraud

 

 

 

See bottom of point one

[dragon29]

Only for organised and high value overpayments

 

This wasn't organised at all. It was neglect at best. I would never knowingly deceive the DWP. Just my mental health deteriorated so I didn't chase up the payslips as I had bigger fish to fry.

I don't know if £1500 is a high value overpayment or not....

[Shoelover]

This wasn't organised at all. It was neglect at best. I would never knowingly deceive the DWP. Just my mental health deteriorated so I didn't chase up the payslips as I had bigger fish to fry.

I don't know if £1500 is a high value overpayment or not....

 

£1500 is not high value.... nor anything like. It's only 13 weeks in conviction

[dragon29]

Only for organised and high value overpayments

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/loss-of-benefit-as-a-penalty-for-benefit-fraud/loss-of-benefit-as-a-penalty-for-benefit-fraud

 

 

 

See bottom of point one

 

I see... Well that's a relief. Thank you.

 

It says reduced also. Is there a chance it could be reduced not stopped for 4 weeks?

[kayleigh89]

organised such as organised crime, you were part of a gang that did this on purpose and encourage others to do so and that is with a conviction. You will get 4 weeks at most.

[dragon29]

organised such as organised crime, you were part of a gang that did this on purpose and encourage others to do so and that is with a conviction. You will get 4 weeks at most.

 

I'm the least likely person to be in a gang ever. I've never even been in a court. Or a police station. Or anything like that. That way of life just isn't for me.

 

I want this over with.

 

£1500 is not high value.... nor anything like. It's only 13 weeks in conviction

 

Is this not a conviction?

 

I feel so sick that I'm not even sure

[kayleigh89]

that's what it meant by organised.

 

ad pen isn't a conviction, a conviction is only when you have been prosecuted and plead guilty or been found guilty. if you accept ad pen, you will not be on police database, on court records. Only people who will know about it is DWP.