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    • I still wish we could see exactly what you had claimed. I'd like to get much more detailed account of the conversation between you and the mediator. I'm a bit surprised that Hermes rejected the situation for something of such low value and am sorry to say it may be something to do with the way that you put across your points – or maybe the arguments that you focused on. I think it will be worthwhile understanding as much as possible, what your claim was about and what went wrong so that we can address those matters when it gets to court. Don't forget that there is still a chance that they may settle before the hearing. If it goes to the hearing then we need to make sure that you are as fully equipped as possible to make your arguments to the court in a convincing way so that you come out having established important principles against Hermes. They have a lot to lose
    • I've been reflecting on this and it seems to me that although it is probably in your interests to leave the car with him, you should retain ownership and not relinquish it until the matter is settled. I don't think there is any conflict between rejecting the car contractually on one hand and retaining the ownership until the matter is settled. By retaining ownership, if there happens to be any move to bankruptcy or something, then you can still assert your ownership of the vehicle. If there was any attempt to dispose of the vehicle without settling your refund first then I think you could legitimately report it to the police are stolen. Goods which are stolen remain stolen even if they are sold on. That means that if the car is sold to somebody and it is yours, then it remains yours and you remain stolen and the purchaser of the car would have purchased stolen property and they will then have to address the problem with the seller – and not with you. If you're able to take photographs of the car then I suggest that you do to make sure that it is in good condition – and you if you are able to keep an eye on it at all then you should do and photograph it from time to time. I think it would be also worthwhile sending the garage a letter saying that you are rejecting the vehicle that you are retaining title to it until they have settled the refund and that it is on their forecourt and as such they are responsible for its safekeeping. Send this letter by recorded delivery, of course.
    • ...Just found this https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/06034544   I can write to their CEO at their registered office. Not sure if I need to send the letter to both, but figure why not.    
    • No, though I did get a call back just this morning (from someone I'd not spoken to before at Crystal) and I now have the name of their CEO and confirmed I can write to him at the address I ordered from. Good idea though. Provisional letter below (names replaced), minor adjustments may be made following the legal advice:-   Dear CEO,   Reference: I am claiming a full refund on the glazing for my recent window order under my short term right to reject under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   As it has not been possible to resolve this matter amicably, and it is apparent that court action may be necessary, I write in compliance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct. I have summarised the facts of the case below:-   On 04/10/20 I sent a signed PDF order across to yyyy yyyy. On the 09/10/20 I received an e-mail from xxxx with an order acknowledgement asking for my address so that she could book the order in. I replied the same day with my address and saying please note my order is not the one you've attached, it's the one I've digitally signed and amended to include additional notes, full glazing specification and details of the thermal frame reinforcement, and I attached another copy of this signed order to my reply. On 19/10/20 I sent an e-mail specifically asking for confirmation the glazing spec would be as per the signed quote, and received a reply from xxxx stating ‘I converted the quote you signed off into an order so, whatever is on the quote paperwork that you signed is exactly what has been ordered.’ On 05/11/20 I took delivery of the windows at my home address, and shortly thereafter queried the glazing specification as it did not seem to tally with what I ordered. I received an e-mail from aaaa (head of customer services) on 10/11/20 confirming that yes they had unfortunately ordered the incorrect glass for me. A later e-mail dated 12/11/20 forwarded by aaaa to myself from bbbb bbbb (senior estimator) at Custom Glass, gave full details of the glazing specification sent and that actually requested. I received glazing using ‘Thermaglas’ with the unit having a U value of 0.682 vs what was actually requested, ‘Therma One’ with a U value of 0.590 (better insulation performance). Repeated requests for a refund on the glazing only have been met with refusal citing your terms and conditions and stating you will only reorder the glass. I would point out that this variation of specification was not by prior agreement, and hence I am not bound to pay for it under your own terms and conditions (2.3 No variation to the Contract shall be binding unless agreed in writing by authorised representatives of the parties). Additionally as the item has not been made to my specifications clause 3.5 is negated (3.5 Cancellation - All Crystal products are ‘made to measure’ This means that where goods have been manufactured ‘made to measure’ due a customer’s specifications, they will become non-returnable and non-refundable.’ Furthermore, term 3.5 is not even included in the terms and conditions listed on my invoice number 345198, it is only on the website, and hence I cannot be bound by it anyway.   Due to the difference in specification the sealed units are not fit for purpose and are not as described.   From you I am claiming a full refund of £1190.93 under my short term right to reject under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   I have calculated this sum based on the total amount paid for the Windows (£1813.14) less the total cost of the frames (£622.21).   Listed below are the documents on which I intend to rely in my claim against you: * 4-14-4-14-4 Thermaglas One.pdf * 4-14-4-14-4 Thermaglas * Signed crystal quote 041020.pdf * Copies of relevant e-mails, for dates see the above summary * Invoice number 345198   I can confirm that I would be agreeable to mediation and would consider any other system of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) in order to avoid the need for this matter to be resolved by the courts.  I would invite you to put forward any proposals in this regard.    In closing, I would draw your attention to paragraphs 15 and 16 of the Practice Direction which gives the courts the power to impose sanctions on the parties if they fail to comply with the direction including failing to respond to this letter before claim.  I look forward to hearing from you within the next 14 days.   Should I not receive a response to my letter within this time frame then I anticipate that court action will be commenced with no further reference to you.   Yours faithfully,    me
    • The finasl part of that Lewes Judgment regarding the Unicorn Feed tax, is worth slipping in somewhere about the addition of any "Admin" or other DCA fees to a claim is abuse of process, as only the driver can be sued for such .
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Administrative penalty notice- how do they expect us to pay?


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Thank you once again tomtom256.

 

Something else I wanted to ask you - with us having an interview on the 24th - will our benefit on the 21st still be paid or will it be stopped?

 

You've been a great help. We both really appreciate it.

 

If the work has stopped and the claim is ok, then it should be paid as normal as there would be no reason to suspend payments.

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If the work has stopped and the claim is ok, then it should be paid as normal as there would be no reason to suspend payments.

 

The work stopped in December so hopefully that means it will be paid as normal. Thank you very much.

 

Trying to calm down and put prison out of my mind.

 

Thank you everyone.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just on my way on my IUC. Extremely scared hoping they take my extenuating circumstances into account.

 

Thank you to everyone for all your help!

 

You have given us a lot of information we wouldn't have known about had I not made contact with this forum. So thank you very much for that.

 

We just have to hope for the best now.

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Phew! So glad that is over.

 

Thought I'd do an update as you have all been so kind to us and helped us throughout this ordeal.

 

I'll start from the beginning.

 

The investigator was polite and professional. Not at all like he was on the phone.

 

He asked me if my partner had done any work other than at Christmas 2013 and early 2014.

 

I of course was totally up front and honest with him and gave him all of the dates that my partner has worked. He said that matched up perfectly with the information he had.

 

He told me that we were looking at a total of 13 weeks 'undeclared' work which makes total sense. He informed me that the reason was that they hadn't received payslips from 2014, 2015 or 2016 so as of right now that is all classed as undeclared.

 

I then informed him of the reasons why I may have been negligent in following up of any payslips sent. About telling my family about the years of sexual abuse, my mental health deteriorating and then my total mental collapse in April 2016 in which I didn't want to live.

 

He said the overpayment as of right now is about £3,200 of undeclared earnings including housing benefit.

 

He told me that isn't what we owe though as my partner could legally earn so much in a financial year without any overpayment.

 

I asked him if it was likely that I was going to go to prison and he laughed and said no not at all which was a massive relief!

 

In 2013 (which he had in a totally different folder as it was resolved and totally dealt with like I said in my previous posts) my partner earned a lot more in that year than any of the following years.

 

We were docked the money in 2014 whilst they totted up how much he could earn without overpayment and then in the end we received every penny back in a big refund.

 

Anyway, the interview lasted for about 35 minutes and at the end of it he said that he was going to recommend to his manager that they take no further action!

 

He said that in 99.999999% of cases that he recommends no action on, his manager listens to him and he assured me that there would be no further action.

 

I could have sobbed. Two weeks of sleepless nights. Worrying about prison. Worrying about how we are going to pay a fine. Knowing that we aren't going to be fined or prosecuted is a HUGE weight off both of our minds. This has really affected both of us from a mental health standpoint but now we can finally breathe again! You have no idea how much of a relief it was to hear him say the words 'I'm going to recommend no further action'

 

He did say that the overpayment was a separate issue though and the relevant team needs to now determine how much of that 'overpayment' and 'undeclared earnings' is actually an overpayment. Same with housing benefit and their team. He said it should be dealt with within three months.

 

I do have one question if I may

 

If it turns out that we have been overpaid and we have to pay it back - at what rate will this be taken? Will it be a significant chunk of our benefits? Say if it comes back that the overpayment is £1000 - how long will that be spread over? Roughly?

 

Both me and my partner want to thank everybody who has helped us here and given us the relevant information we needed to approach the interview from the best way possible. We appreciate it so much.

 

Now we just need to wait for the letter to say a) If there is an overpayment and b) if they are taking any further action (although he said it's extremely unlikely)

 

Thank you!

 

From two very relieved people. :-)

Edited by dragon29
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Mine is £11.10 a week but if it causes financial hardship you can repay at a lower rate, you just have to fill in a form with your in goings and out goings.

 

Glad it went well for you and put your mind at rest.

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  • 2 months later...

As some of you may remember I attended an IUC in March where I was told that he was going to recommend no action and we would just have to pay the overpayment which is being dealt with coming out of our benefits.

 

Received a letter this morning saying I have to go to another interview and that I'm being fined £780 instead of prosecution.

 

How are we meant to pay that in a lump sum?

We can barely live as it is on the money we've got.

How do they expect us to pay SEVEN HUNDRED AND EIGHTY POUNDS

- we can hardly afford to eat as it is so

how do they expect us to pay that much?

 

As I said in my previous post both me and my partner have mental health problems and this has exacerbated them.

 

If we can't pay it, will they send us to court?

 

Prison is entering my mind again. I feel sick.

 

In addition to this

I've been reading online that if I accept this admin penalty we will have our benefits taken away for 4 weeks.

 

 

Please can someone explain how we are meant to

a) live

b) repay our overpayment through our benefits if they are going to take away our benefit for 4 weeks.

 

I'm freaking out!!

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Try to calm down and just see how it goes.

 

Before you go to the next meeting, write back to whoever has issued this Administrative penalty notice and appeal against the amount. Provide them with full details of your income, expenses and savings, so they can see your current position. And make them fully aware of your vulnerable position i.e your health.

 

I suspect that you can go through a full appeals process, before the amount of any penalty is set and you can then agree repayments over a period. You might be able to pay a small amount per week out of future benefit income over a longish period until it is cleared.

 

But make sure you write back as soon as possible.

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I'm really worried at the moment about them taking our benefits away and us having nothing to live on. There was no deceit on our part and now we are being punished even more. We have no savings. At all. For us to lose our benefit would be catastrophic.

 

Do I have the right to appeal? If I appeal will it be of detriment to me if the appeal is denied?

 

Me and my partner are so terrified right now.

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threads merged

please keep to one thread

 

 

and stop worrying.

 

 

its no big deal.

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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How in the world is it 'no big deal'? - we don't have a magic money tree outside.

 

Constructive advice only please. Things that will actually help rather than saying it's no big deal. It's a huge deal to us.

 

I tried to edit but it wouldn't let me.

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why are you being fined?

the end result will be the same as last time most probably.

small amount out of benefits.

 

 

so why this 2nd time are they doing it?

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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This is an administrative penalty to stop it going to court.

They are already taking the overpayment from our benefit each fortnight.

 

We were told that no further action would be taken but obviously not.

 

My real worry apart from the Administrative penalty is the fact I've read that we could have our benefits stopped for a period of time if we accept the penalty.

 

There was no deceit in this. I thought we'd got that clear at the IUC. Clearly not.

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Uncle B has suggested you respond to them in writing. Your letter should include the fact that both you and your partner are vulnerable persons. That you are already making repayments via your benefits.

 

 

It does rather sound to me as though there might be a bit of an administrative cock up.

 

 

You might also want to contact Citizens Advice Bureau - explain the situation to them and ask if they can help you.

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yep this doesn't sound right to me.

its for the same issue as before.

someone's ticked a wrong box.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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Uncle B has suggested you respond to them in writing. Your letter should include the fact that both you and your partner are vulnerable persons. That you are already making repayments via your benefits.

 

 

It does rather sound to me as though there might be a bit of an administrative cock up.

 

 

You might also want to contact Citizens Advice Bureau - explain the situation to them and ask if they can help you.

 

What do you mean by 'Administrative cock up'?

 

Would it be of help to pay for a doctors letter explaining my situation? We can't really afford it but we have a friend that may help with a small amount. If I include that along with income/expenditures would that give us a bit more gravitas?

 

I thought this contravened DWP policy and that they had to take mental health into account?

 

Am I wrong in thinking that?

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yep this doesn't sound right to me.

its for the same issue as before.

someone's ticked a wrong box.

 

The issue before was for the overpayment though. This is a penalty to stop it from going to court. We just can't afford to pay £780 though. Surely as this is a first offence and I have mental health problems which I clearly explained at the IUC they would be a bit more lenient with me.

 

I feel like crying.

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its a cock up

they cant do BOTH

deduct from benefits & send you to court..mad world if they do!!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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They can apparently because they are.

Well they aren't sending us to court YET but if we don't accept this penalty they will and even if we do accept it our benefits will be stopped for a period of time to be confirmed.

 

 

How are they expecting to get the overpayment that they take from our benefits each fortnight back if they stop our benefits?

 

It's sickening.

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If they sanction us we can't live.

 

I will be saying this in my appeals letter

I am currently writing a draft of along with the fact that I don't feel like they took any of what I said in my IUC regarding the fact I had a full mental breakdown last year (of which I'm still recovering from) and the fact everything came out about being sexually abused and dealing with the police and then the CPS into consideration when coming to this decision. I don't think they've taken any of it into consideration at all. They can't have done if they have come to this decision.

 

Either that or they are heartless and don't care about the fact that this time last year I didn't want to live.

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The ad pen amount is a percentage of the overpayment, the amount is set by legislation.

The actual percentage is dependant upon the overpayment dates.

 

You are being offered ad pen as they believe that the case against you will succeed in court.

If you don't accept they may well prosecute.

 

The penalty is recovered in instalments after you have repaid the overpayment, so no it's not a lump sum.

 

Yes there is a loss of some benefits after you accept an ad pen.

Usually for 4 weeks if a first offence.

 

There is no right of appeal against an ad pen decision.

You accept or decline.

If you decline they will then decide if they will prosecute or not

Please do not ask me for advice via PM as I will not reply.

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Well I'm writing them a letter anyway as I feel that none of my mitigating circumstances were taken into account and I'm appalled to receive this after being so transparent at my IUC and being told no further action by the investigator minus the overpayment.

 

So please tell me

 

How are we meant to live and pay bills if they take our benefits off us for 4 weeks?

 

We have ZERO savings!

 

They have to be heartless after everything I told them.

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