Cabot/Reston - old stayed claim - in court tomorrow any advice

[dx100uk]

whatever you do don't use post 16!!

[Starboy]

thanks for the response - yes realise this is very last minute

I wont use post 16 - butnot sure i understand why not?

Hearing is at 3.30 will be leaving here by 2

 

Anything else I need to post here?

[Starboy]

their witness statement is 4 pages long shall i scan over?

[AndyOrch]

their witness statement is 4 pages long shall i scan over?

 

You can...have you checked with the court they have paid the hearing fee for today and that the hearing is going ahead ?

 

Andy

[Starboy]

yes we have checked and the hearing is going ahead at 3.30

will scan witness statement over now

[Starboy]

here are the pdf of the wir witness statement

Scan 3.pdf

Scan.pdf

Scan 2.pdf

Scan 1.pdf

[AndyOrch]

Thanks...you have left the claim number showing so I have unapproved your upload...all uploads must be redacted of identifiable data...

 

I can still view it so will read it now.

 

Andy

[Starboy]

as per post 4 - can this form part of my defence?

If they have not sent you a legible CCA agreement with your signatureicon in their court bundle they are stuffed.

Especially as this is a 2002 account so pre 2007.

The CCA 2006 will now apply with section 127(3) which is an absolute defence

 

3)The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

[AndyOrch]

Thanks ......read that many times for other posters in your same predicament.

 

The following points you must get across at the hearing....

 

The copy agreement is illegible and lacks the prescribed terms set out by the CCA1974 (Consumer Credit Act)

 

Refer to section 61 (1) a,b,c of the CCA1974 and section 127 (1) of the CCA1974

 

Challenge the lack of Default Notice and the Witness avoidance of referring to it within the WS.

 

Refer to Section 87 (1) of the CCA1974 The need for a Default Notice

 

The above is all you have to challenge...you will find the relevant legislation I have referred to in the following link.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/contents

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Starboy]

thank you so much Andyorch - very helpful

I will use this - I will post the defence shortly

[Starboy]

this is what I have written taking your advice - I have printed copies of all relevant links - I dont know what WS means!?

 

"Your Honour

 

I have herewith my defence in the case brought by Cabot today.

 

Can I firstly say I am representing myself and have never appeared in court before so this is very new to me so please allow patience and understanding if I fumble at all.

 

I am finding this process particularly stressful after the recent loss of my mother and our beloved family dog - I have been suffering anxiety attacks - please see attached doctor’s letter

 

 

I dispute the claim from Cabot for the following reasons

 

 

They have never sent me an original legible CCA as per my legal and human right

 

the account referred to is from 2002 - pre 2006 legislation amendments

 

The copy agreement is illegible and lacks the prescribed terms set out by the CCA1974 (consumer credit Act)

 

I Refer to section 61 (1) a,b,c of the CCA1974 and section 127 (1) of the CCA1974

 

I Challenge the lack of Default Notice and the Witness avoidance of referring to it within the WS.

 

I Refer to Section 87 (1) of the CCA1974 The need for a Default Notice

 

I also refute their expenses claim - Northampton Court stayed the case because Restons had not provided me with any relevant paperwork - it was only after the case was stayed in Northampton they sent me the copies I have here - I have still never received originals. so all expenses incurred at Northampton court should now be waived

I would also like to point out that I have never had a contract with cabot and they have confirmed this in a letter to me."

 

Am very happy to take your advice on additions and changes you think would apply

Many thanks

[AndyOrch]

Well its too late to submit any written evidence now having missed the date to submit formal response...use the above as bullet points in your oral evidence

 

Forget the points I have marked in Blue and add the red.

 

Give it your best shot and best of luck

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Starboy]

I really appreciate your advice and speedy replies. Is it relevant that I was combatting prostate cancer when this debt was incurred and card was only used for business purposes to try and stay afloat - business later folded. it was my personal card but only used for business debt - not for living the high life.

[AndyOrch]

I really appreciate your advice and speedy replies. Is it relevant that I was combatting prostate cancer when this debt was incurred and card was only used for business purposes to try and stay afloat - business later folded. it was my personal card but only used for business debt - not for living the high life.

 

I appreciate that and also sympathise with what you have recently been through...but a Court is not really concerned and adds nothing to your defence...unfortunately.

[Starboy]

ok thanks

[Starboy]

Update on court hearing today:

 

It did not all go our way

but the judge was fair and impartial and very quickly pointed out that Restons had not produced sufficient evidence showing that Cabot had ever been assigned the debt.

 

 

The solicitor tried prevaricating and quoting evidence in witness statement

it was quite clear that they did not have the evidence that the debt was ever assigned.

 

 

Because of the amount the judge decided not to strike it out completely

but allow Restons four weeks to provide clear evidence that the debt was assigned to Cabot from Lloyds

- Apex were attempting to collect debt on behalf of Lloyds it was never assigned to them.

 

 

The solicitor requested that secondary evidence of assigning debt be allowed

- because obviously they do not have proof of the assignment or they would have used it.

 

 

the judge agreed that they would be allowed to provide satisfactory secondary evidence of assigning the debt to Cabot.

But it would need to be substantial evidence that we could dispute if not in agreement.

So far so good for us.

 

However he blew every argument we put together earlier out of the water by asking two simple questions

- was this credit card yours and did you use it to make the list of transactions in the evidence.

 

 

When I said I could not be sure due to the length of time,

he refused to accept that as an answer and pushed for confirmation.

 

He said it was not necessary to have an original of the CCA and the sections quoted were not relevant.

obviously I was honest and had to say yes to the use of the card

even tho i cannot remember signing the agreement

and only have the copy front page so do not know all of the terms and conditions.

This put me on the back foot as I was unsure how to proceed.

 

 

thankfully he then pointed out about the proof of the assigning being missing.

Which was a relief for me.

He also awarded them no costs today as the fault was theirs in not providing correct evidence.

 

His advice to us was to wait until Restons come back with sufficient proof of the debt actually being assigned to Cabot from Lloyds and then if we are satisfied with the proof, see a solicitor and build up our witness statement

 

 

- they have until the 29th June and we have four weeks from that to provide the witness statement

and he wants it back in court by early August.

 

 

So not much more we can do until we receive their evidence which we imagine will not be strong

- or they would have used it already.

 

 

Thank you all for the advice and support shown here at such short notice as it helped clarify my thoughts and enter the courtroom a little more confidently.

 

 

Having never been through this before I found it extremely taxing but was fortunate that the judge was patient and fair and considerate.

 

 

I hope this can help others in similar situation

- thru no fault of their own

- as we had not realised about the assignation being missing but it was key to his decision today.

 

I think it does pay to take on these ruthless companies and hopefully they can be beaten.

 

 

We will come back and update this when we have heard from Restons and any more advice would be welcome as the battle is not yet won. once again many thanks

[dx100uk]

I will guess they will find the NOA without too much difficulty

so work will be need to be done to counter this in other ways.

 

well done mind.

 

the overriding factor here is its £18k!!

 

restons will no give up

 

cabot probably paid less than £2k for it

and would have already gotten that paid back that for fees for Lloyds using Apex,

who themselves don't buy debts and typically only 'chase' for external banks not for their 'owners' cabot

 

so in a way they've won already

 

 

dx

[Starboy]

Thanks can an I just ask. Do restons or Cabot staff browse these boards at all do you know?

[dx100uk]

so what if they do...we've never found it hurts a claim.

if anything with all the wins we've gotten over those two over the years boosts us

dx

[AndyOrch]

Just posting some notes for consideration./Witness statement

 

" However he blew every argument we put together earlier out of the water by asking two simple questions - was this credit card yours and did you use it to make the list of transactions in the evidence. "

 

Alleged date of assignment POC Assigned to the claimant on Mar 31 2014.

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007? 2002

 

" He said it was not necessary to have an original of the CCA and the sections quoted were not relevant. "

 

 

If you could upload the following exhibit....

 

 

DLA3

 

Regards

 

Andy