Live abroad. MBNA contacting parents UK home for payment

[billybob12]

The facts are as follows:

 

1) I owe MBNA some £10k that has not been paid since November 2016 (so recent) and I imagine is about to default.

Its a combination of balance transfers from cards that were used to fund my foreign studies.

 

2) Until now my parents have been transferring money to my bank account which I then forward to them as minimum payment.

This is not sustainable for any of us and I am just barely paying the 28% interest.

 

3) I have lived abroad for a long time, but kept my UK accounts as they were useful but the situation has become critical.

I did not inform any institution that I was abroad, and in any case, students are a special category in terms of continuing NHS care when studying abroad. I am currently in Eastern Europe but about to move to Hong Kong for work.

 

4) I have no assets of any kind, not even a TV in my parents bedroom, some old toys, about it.

 

5) I don't intend to return to the UK for a long time but I may live in the EU with my Italian girlfriend.

 

I want to know what steps MBNA will take to recover this debt.

The most important for me is that my parents are not harassed for my own decisions because I do not live at home or in the UK.

 

I intend to deregister myself from the electoral roll/council tax list,

I just have not had a chance to do so

but I'll head home before departing to HK to take care of such procedural matters.

I would be happy to close any other accounts and in any case they are not in use and will not be in use.

 

I intend to inform them of my HK forwarding address,

I believe that would be my legal obligation in any case,

I presume this might also limit the visits that could potentially disturb my parents.

 

Regardless of the moral implications of giving up on paying this debt and starting a new life,

I am only interested in the legal ones,

and especially to mitigate any stress that my parents could be subject to in terms of home visits from a bailiff if/were a CCJ issued.

I am not even sure if they can get one and how it could be enforced in another country.

 

 

According to my research, it would be statute barred from the last payment or the date of a CCJ.

During those six (or more) years I want to ensure my parents are not subject to home visits, phone calls etc.

 

 

Presently they are being called twice a day, but they won't speak to my parents, asking for me.

To be clear, I won't be hiding in the backroom, or down the road or in another UK town.

 

What steps should I take to ringfence any potential earnings in HK?

There is a PhD on the cards which would probably take place in Italy,

and again the question would be the feasibility of pursuing this debt etc (ignoring the post-Brexit scenario).

[dx100uk]

you simply inform them you are moving to HK.

 

as for visits CCJ's Debt collectors

bailiffs etc etc.

 

that's should all stop or never happen once the creditor knows you no longer reside in the UK.

 

bailiffs even IF MBNA [ and they WONT] get a CCJ would only ever be court bailiffs

they are the good guys and are not commission based, so are not the remote bit interested in racking up fees and theres no forced entry either.

they [MBNA] will most probably sell the debt to a no powers DCA.

 

you don't need to ring fence anything either.

 

although its not what we preach [debt avoidance]

the bottom line is there is very very little they can ACTUALLY do to you abroad...

esp in HK!!

[unclebulgaria67]

I think you seem to be pretty much on top of the issues.

 

You need to disassociate yourself with any UK address including your parents and advise any UK creditors of your Hong Kong address.

 

Because HK is now part of China,

UK creditors have zero chance of any debt enforcement there and will give up.

 

I suspect that MBNA will not do anything apart from noting the default on your UK credit file and in a few years sell your debt onto UK debt buyers.

 

UK debt buyers may or may not be given your HK address and if not try to trace you.

 

Without any live UK records, they will draw a blank.

If your parents receive any letters, they should just forward to you in HK and you write giving your HK address.

 

If you come back to the UK to live within 6 years you stand chance of UK enforcement through the courts.

The whole point of advising creditors you are in HK is that this should avoid UK court actions.

If you move to Italy and there is still EU cross border debt enforcement,

it would be technically possible for an Italian court to become involved, but very unlikely.

 

You will be surprised that many credit card companies such as MBNA don't issue court claims and instead choose to sell debts on to debt buyers/collectors.

 

It can be years before the new debt owners look to take action and you must ensure your HK address is known to them.

If necessary you can add notes to your UK credit file that you live in HK by contacting Experian.

[billybob12]

Thank you for your replies. It is very much appreciated.

 

Something that is on my mind is the issue of bankruptcy.

I admit, I have no idea how this works but it would have huge consequences if they can get a CCJ and then issue this against me, because it would have global ramifications and bars me from future work in the UK in many fields.

Can someone explain this and how it could be forced upon me?

 

I've read on the other forum about legal issues pertaining to debt enforcement.

I am wondering why dx100uk you think MBNA would not seek a CCJ because from my research it seems there is an excellent chance it would be successful, even on a HK residency because it would be a win by default as clearly I wouldn’t turn up or return the forms.

 

Does the court procedure rules allow them l for them to use a “last known” address to serve such documents even though they are fully aware I do not live there?

 

A legally minded friend told me I should just say nothing so its clear I have “gone away” and remove myself from the electoral roll/council tax list because it doesn’t matter where I am, the debt is unenforceable and they would search irregardless in the UK in case I come back during the 6 years.

I think that would have some further ramifications that I would like to avoid.

 

Do I actually have any legal obligations to tell them beyond that I have left the UK, to keep it up to date when I move home over the next 6 years, what kind of timescale?

 

Would this lead to bankruptcy?

And by ceasing to use all my accounts, and removing myself from the ER it is clear I am not at my parents home, I presume also its very easy for them to indicate they are a third party and it is unenforceable on their home and all correspondence must desist.

 

If I failed to provide a forwarding address, would they use that of a third party (my parents) where I am no longer resident and not registered at that address.

 

Surely a foreign address cannot be entered as such, because I understood UK credit files require a UK residency?

So it will not say Billy Bob, Hong Kong if/when I came back to the UK?

 

One unrelated matter is I have a phone contract in my name.

This has another 8 months left to run.

My parents offer to pay this but that would keep my file alive.

 

Surely under this system of “freedom to contract" in E&W, the carrier would be happy to transfer it to my mothers name for the remaining months on a new credit agreement keeping the term the same?

This way, my credit file would be inactive and at £30 a month, it seems little to default over.

 

I have a card issued in my name on my mothers credit card account for emergencies (an additional card).

Do I need to give this up?

It would be useful to have.

I can’t see how the data sharing could even be legal and there's surely no way the Court nor a bank could slap my debt on her card one day, and as I understand, there is no credit file or reference attached to this.

 

I'm only in my early 20s so who knows what the future holds.

It terms of statute barring, if I wish to obtain credit or open a bank account after this time has passed how is this viewed?

 

I read it like someone who has no credit history at all, so if you like, “score” 0.

I know that a CCJ would be entered into the Register of Judgments, Orders and Fines how long would it stay there and would this restrict me from future employment after the 6 years?

 

Who knows if I would like to work in public service down the line, even as a Special Constable.

Perhaps I would be barred from ever working in the financial sector.

[unclebulgaria67]

Due to recent FCA rule changes for a consumer credit debt, they would need a CCJ to be unpaid first, before they could go for bankruptcy. Given the cost of bankruptcy to creditors which i believe is about £3,000, i think this is a very unlikely option. MBNA are likely to sell your debt on for a fraction of its value and it just would not make sense to incur fees on bankruptcy. They would most likely then be in a loss making position.

 

Technically yes creditors can issue court claims to your last known UK address, but this when they don't know of any different address for service. If you advise them you live in HK, then they would have to serve the court claim on you in HK. But given that they could not enforce any CCJ in HK, what would be the point. They would lose money.

 

Your phone contract if on your UK credit record should be finished to stop a continuing record in the UK. It cannot be transferred to anyone else, as far as i know. Speak to the contract provider.

 

The second card on your mothers credit card account, presumably means you have an association on your credit record, which might mean your mother receives debt letters in your name to her address. Check your credit record to see whether you are associated to your mother due to this card.

 

After 6 years of no payment, no acknowledgement and no CCJ, then the debt will no longer be enforceable. Therefore if you return to the UK after 6 years, the debt should not cause you any harm.

 

It is your choice. If you are really worried about it, then see if you can settle the debt, by making a reduced full and final settlement offer. If accepted, you can then live anywhere in peace without having any wories about this debt.

[billybob12]

Thank you again.

 

Just to clarify one point you made:

 

After 6 years of no payment, no acknowledgement and no CCJ, then the debt will no longer be enforceable.

 

If there was a CCJ issued would that still be 6 years from that date? Technically could it be almost 12 years? Say 5 years 6 months no payment, get CCJ and then another 6 from there? Its probably unheard of and perhaps then bankrupt me another 12 months then 5 years leading to a further 6 in total on the credit file. Can only the original creditor obtain the CCJ or can a DCA also get one?

 

I presume if multiple amounts were owed to various lenders it would be more worthwhile to pursue bankruptcy because they could join the petition. I have no idea how common this is, whether say MBNA join forced with say Virgin.

[dx100uk]

billybob slow down...

 

i'm not sure what site you at reading but most of what you are worrying about is mostly totally wrong

or you are not understanding it.

 

your main 'worry' seems to be BK

 

they cant do that.

once you advise your creditor you're moving or HAVE to HK

 

they cant do anything to you.

 

mbna do not take people to court.

 

mbna will sell it on and it WILL have your HK address attached to it.

 

no dca will touch it with a barge pole

 

one other thing

 

you eluded to thinking a CCJ is made against a residence its NOT

its against a person

cant hurt anyone at the address its was wrongly attained at.

 

dx

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes either original creditor or a debt buyer could obtain CCJ and could apply for your bankruptcy. They could get a CCJ after say 5 years by sending a court claim to your last known UK address and then have 6 years to gain enforcement of the CCJ. So you could return to the UK in 11 years and have a creditor contact you looking for payment of the CCJ.

 

BUT if you advise creditors you are living in Hong Kong this is very very unlikely. As a double safety measure, you could subscribe to say Experian and log on to your UK credit record from abroad. Check with Experian whether you could access your record from abroad with log on. You can then add notes to your credit file that you live in Hong Kong. Creditors will look at your credit record and see the note, so no excuse in sending court claims to a UK address and gaining a sneeky default CCJ.

 

Given how costly it is for creditors to for bankruptcy and that you don't own any assets, this is very very unlikely, as they are likely to lose money.

 

As you are coming across as a person who is going to be living in nervous fear of this debt from thousands of miles away, i would suggest you talk to your parents about it. Perhaps in the interests of your health, you should seek to settle the debts by negotiation.

[billybob12]

an update after all this time, it finally defaulted.

 

I am just unsure whether I have an obligation to inform them of my new address or informing them that I am no longer resident is enough because it is obviously important to get those gone-away notices so my parents are not pursued and they try to use a backdoor to obtain a CCJ or head down the bankruptcy line.

 

I can imagine that many people will say they are not-resident anymore.

 

is it a matter of fact that if I inform a CRA and DCA that I am "gone away" that they have an obligation to accept it and at the very least put this on my credit files and for the DCA accept that notice was given at the time.

[dx100uk]

if MBNA have defaulted it

i'd suggest they are about to sell it on.

so they have your HK address and have been legally informed of it

so no DCA can do anything with it.

they are aware you reside in HK

[unclebulgaria67]

an update after all this time, it finally defaulted.

 

I am just unsure whether I have an obligation to inform them of my new address or informing them that I am no longer resident is enough because it is obviously important to get those gone-away notices so my parents are not pursued and they try to use a backdoor to obtain a CCJ or head down the bankruptcy line.

 

I can imagine that many people will say they are not-resident anymore.

 

is it a matter of fact that if I inform a CRA and DCA that I am "gone away" that they have an obligation to accept it and at the very least put this on my credit files and for the DCA accept that notice was given at the time.

 

What happens in reality is that Banks might say that they cannot send statements or letters abroad and must have a UK contact address. They do this for the simple reason that someone with UK financial records should have a UK address for all communications to make it easier for the Bank. The advice is that If you are going to live abroad and are likely to be in debt, that you do not provide another UK address, as that will cause you problems. You must confirm your foreign address.

 

If you want Banks and any current owners of your debts to believe you live abroad, then you can send them a copy of anything official stating your foreign address. Most people will have something showing their foreign address, as they have to register themselves with local authorities. You will have something showing your residency in Hong Kong.