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    • Please see my comments in orange within your post.
    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.   House or Flat? Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. Lenders have a legal obligation to sell the property for the best price they can get. If they feel the offer is low they won't sell it, because it's likely the borrower will say the same. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Again, points as above. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) Why serve a delapidations notice? If it's in the terms of the lease to maintain the property to a good standard, then serve an S146 notice instead as it's a clear breach of the lease. I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. Enfranchisement isn't something that can be "voided", it's in the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 that leaseholders have the right to buy the freehold of the property. It's normal, whether it is a "normal" leaseholder or a repossession with a leasehold house, to claim this right of enfranchisement and sell the property with said rights attached and the purchase price of the freehold included in the final completion price. That's likely what the mortgage provider wished to do. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Redact and scan said evidence up for others to look at? Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. So this is dealt with then. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.  You wouldn't vary a lease through a lease extension. You'd need a Deed of Variation for that. This may be done at the same time but the lease has already been extended once and that's all they have a right to. The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved. The lease has already been extended once so they have no right to another extension. It seems pretty easy to just get the lawyer to say no and stick by those terms as the law is on your side there. Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. Again, order them to revert it as they didn't have permission to do the works, or else serve an S146 notice for breach of the lease. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Dubai Car Finance debt being chased in the UK by Stockslegal limited


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Any updates from anyone?!

 

I can't believe how many people left Dubai and have been chased for debts but then no end to the story?!

 

First CDW letter has arrived and trying to decide whether I should fight it using a solicitor?!

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I would not negotiate with C W D. I would leave it to the court in the expectation that they would offer more reasonable terms if a charging order were granted.

 

However, before any of that, you should be checking the validity of the credit agreement.

 

I would start by demanding a true copy of my original credit agreement, without which they can do nowt except continue quacking.

 

And as they are relying on English law to pursue, I assume you have the protection of the same to defend.

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I can't believe people have been fighting them for years!

 

I only received my first letter yesterday and I already want it over and done with.

 

I will keep you posted with solicitors advice

but from the last solicitor I spoke to it's all a very grey area!

 

UAE debt, can be enforced here but would it actually be enforced depending on the evidence..

.. unlikely but who knows.

 

He couldn't find anything prior to our meeting earlier this year where cases had been won by the uAE banks?!

 

We are paying 3x the amount for this new solicitor so I expect some results to show these solicitors are winning the amount of cases they claim to be, after all since a post in 2011 they've been winning 20 every 3 months!

 

Pretty impressive if it were true! Exactly the same letter wording too!

 

I guess I'm saying hold your nerve and don't agree to something you can't afford!

 

They are being completely unreasonable and I can't imagine any judge would look favourably on them if ever it did go to court?!

 

Oh and for the CDW spies who come on here to see what's going on...

. There are some who will fight you, who can afford a good solicitor to see through your cr@p and will feed back to the other members who are literally at their wits end to make sure you get as little as possible! I wish I could swear but it sounds a lot like twonks!

 

Keep in touch everyone....

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CCA request?! Not a clue what that is and I'm not sending anything - every bit of correspondence will be done through my solicitor. I don't want to speak to them at all after reading about their practices. They are no flamin better than the Dubai laws!

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You mean the credit agreement? If so yes I have part of badly photocopied or scanned agreement, lots of pages missing. An accounts statement that makes no reasonable sense and some other paperwork in Arabic. Got this off the DCA earlier this year. Again the solicitor said he can't see how that would stand up in any court of law?! I presume CDW will have the same info but time will tell.

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I didn't write to DCA, just spoke on the phone.

 

 

Was advised not to put anything in writing

 

 

I telephoned them and told them to send me everything they had relating to this debt.

 

 

I didn't admit to owning the debt.

 

 

CDW are acting as a debt collector, the same collecting laws apply to them.

 

 

Before accepting any ownership of the debt you want all the information they hold.

 

 

If it reads anything like I got off the DCA good luck trying to work it out!

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I didn't write to DCA, just spoke on the phone. Was advised not to put anything in writing so I telephoned them and told them to send me everything they had relating to this debt. I didn't admit to owning the debt. CDW are acting as a debt collector, the same collecting laws apply to them. Before accepting any ownership of the debt you want all the information they hold. If it reads anything like I got off the DCA good luck trying to work it out!

 

It is a golden rule of ppl experienced in dealing with debt almost never to get into phone conversations with DCAs/solicitors.

 

 

They can, and wil, try to blind you with "sciencel", tie you in knots, invent scare stories and generally put you on tie spot.

 

Besides, you need a complete paper trail in case they do go ahead with court.

 

There should be no particular reason to employ a solicitor of your own unless you are rich.

 

 

If you are, and the debt C W D are chasing is yours, have you considered repaying it [to the bank not these creeps]?

If not, you could adopt the same *self-help* strategies as thousands of members of this forum have used.

 

 

Solicitors do not hold magic bullets that you can't find here.

 

These accounts stink too much for UK debt purchasers to pay even their lowest pittance and pose all sorts of collection difficulties.

Only the likes of C W D will touch them.

 

Just remember, they cannot enforce in court without a true copy of the CCA.

Random photocopies do not cut the mustard.

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Oleg - I'm far from rich but I'm not going to worry myself senseless for months or years.

I did try and arrange with the bank when I left Dubai and they weren't interested.

 

 

They want the whole amount of the finance there and the and had the car!

I don't expect a solicitor to have magic bullets but I do expect them to be able to see through the bull CDW are spouting

and what they can and can't do legally!

 

 

CDW may be more inclined to deal with it professionally when they know they can't use scare tactics.

 

As for the telephone conversations - they were exactly a request for information.

 

 

No conversation or anything else.

I'm not a stupid person so did not allow them to engage at all.

At the time my solicitor who gave me advice wasn't sure if the stat of limitation would be applied

so by engaging in written correspondence would automatically put that aside as the time lapse is January 2015.

 

I've never disputed owing something on the car finance but I'm not paying for a whole car

and they have the car as well as the charges they've added.

 

 

The banks are completely unreasonable in Dubai and if they want their payment in full then I will go to court with it.

I've got nothing to loose!

 

 

I had a second car out there as well as a credit card, it's a matter of time before they come through the door.

If I settle this already doubled debt then have to do the same again with the next two

I might as well be bankrupt as I will be paying it off for the rest of my life!

 

I will keep members updated if they want to know what I'm advised.

I think you will agree it is very difficult to get answers on here as no one actually knows

and no one has posted on here or the web an outcome of a case with CDW

or any court case so you get members who are considering putting themselves into financial difficulties tho appease CDW.

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I didn't write to DCA, just spoke on the phone. Was advised not to put anything in writing so I telephoned them and told them to send me everything they had relating to this debt. I didn't admit to owning the debt. CDW are acting as a debt collector, the same collecting laws apply to them. Before accepting any ownership of the debt you want all the information they hold. If it reads anything like I got off the DCA good luck trying to work it out!

 

 

The advice given re telephoning a DCA is wrong, all communication must be kept in writing, keeping a checkable paper trail, DCAs have a habit of not having any record of calls.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

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  • 1 month later...

Who knew hiring a solicitor would make things more difficult..

. So back and forwards the bottom line is

- yes they are winning judgements

- it's presumed by people not fighting them

however, they are getting through the initial stage with the Dubai documentation.

 

 

Until some case are actually won against them solicitors are reluctant to offer their services because a debt of some sort is owing and unless you've got nothing to loose you are risking loosing everything by fighting it.

 

 

Don't be disheartened though, look at the guy above who's fighting and already won the first step!

I truly hope his becomes the case law we are waiting for.

 

 

CDW have been professional in dealing with us however there has been no scope for negotiating.

Pay it all or court.

 

I have not been able to use my solicitor as yet because if they sent a letter acting in our behalf CDW would serve them with notice, they then have to hire a barrister to go to court to say they should not be served so there is £700 before you start.

But that's not to say once served the solicitor can't act on your behalf.

 

It's a matter of time for this firm of solicitors! I look forward to reading about them in the newspaper!

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  • 1 year later...

Quick question as I've already been through this process with CWD 2 years ago and I paid.

 

Second debt request for our other car has hit in the way of a phone call from a very helpful and friendly solicitor (who knew they existed!) at Stockslegal limited.

 

She said the bank would be willing to negotiate if we paid in full.

 

I'm not going to ignore it as I did that before and CDW added £2k to the bill!

 

I want to be on top of this.

 

Left in January 2009,

can we simply use the 6 year limitation as a defence?

I understand it's a UK debt but being heard in a UK court, surely has to have advantages?

 

In the meantime I've asked for all info and strangely have not had even an acknowledgement of the 2 emails I sent in response to her letter stating I had 7 days to reply or court action. CWD were all over the correspondence!

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Just respond to them that the matter is subject to statute of limitations and that you would defend.

 

Why you paid CWD the previous debt including £2k surprises me, unless it ended up in a UK court judgement. Did it actually get to a court hearing ?

We could do with some help from you.

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they mugged you before and told their mates

 

now they are trying the same

 

ignore totally

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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No it didn't

but at the time we spoke to a solicitor in the UK at length and it was no guarantee of beating them and the risk of the amount being double through legal costs if we lost.

 

Bankruptcy was not an option due to my husband co-owning a business.

 

On the first car we were initially chased by a debt collector who we ignored.

By the time CWD got involved the debt had gone up £2k.

 

CWD would not negotiate.

Our solicitor said if it had been over the limitation we may have used that but at the time we weren't there.

 

I'm yet to read anyone being successful when going to court.

I just don't want to find myself in the position of owing more money in a years time.

 

The limitation is 15 years in Dubai,

I do wonder if the UK court actually uses any of our laws in our favour!

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I don't think CWD actually win many at court hearings and most are default judgements.

 

UK limitation is 6 years and if they want to use UK courts for enforcement, then UK law would apply.

 

You never tested the other debt in court or the costs they wanted to add.

We could do with some help from you.

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No we didn't.

 

We were told it was your debt,

that would be hard to defend

but they did say they hadn't dealt with any overseas debt and they were only going off research.

They couldn't find any cases to compare.

 

At the time it certainly wasn't worth the risk of being in that much debt if we lost.

 

Crazy there isn't more experience solicitors or cases to compare.

 

I have read something today about a guy who did fight it using a solicitor and our 6 years but the judge ruled in favour of the Middle East using their 15 years.

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you got had your solicitor wants shooting!!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Don't go by some online reports, as it has been known for some Middle East debt collectors, to post fake reports online, that suggest allsorts. I remember reading one instance where they were found out doing this. They don't operate by UK finance standards.

We could do with some help from you.

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 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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Will keep you posted when she sends the information and see what it is they are claiming for. Right now the account number she has sent is not relating to our car, maybe that's what's taking so long! Thanks guys much appreciated.

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