Welcome says My £12k CCA Regulated secured Loan will now become a mortgage!

[citizenB]

 

Well I hope you do get it sorted.

[Baz1994]

 

Well I hope you do get it sorted.

 

So do I citizenB

 

They are crooks as far as we are concerned and still getting harassment from them even though we have submitted a letter in dispute regarding an arrears amount.

 

Constant phone calls even though we requested contact only in writing. Totalling ignoring our requests and evidence of said amount.

[citizenB]

If other threads are anything to go by Welcome are not a very nice company to do business with and will create all kinds of problems where there might not have been any.

 

I think you might need to make a formal complaint - putting everything you consider to be wrong, misleading - bullet point fashion and then wait to see what they have to say. If no satisfactory response (I think it is 8 weeks) you should then escalate to the FOS.

[Baz1994]

I can assure you they are awful. Had my OH in tears on a few occasions with their constant abuse.

 

I have been compiling as much evidence in the last year or so including a log of how many times we were called,

sometimes three times a day. I can tell you it was horrendous for us both.

 

I know we are not the only one's as I have seen other posts.

And yes it was our choice at the end of the day but we were desperate at the time.

When we approached them for assistance they said no can do and we will repossess your home etc.

 

So you can understand my determination to see this one through but I want to compose as much details as possible,

hence my request for some assistance.

 

If only I had found this marvellous site earlier as it could have saved us a lot of worry and stress.

 

But I am glad to say things are looking up now

[Peterbard]

Hi

On a second charge Mortgage the cooling off period is supplied via section 58 of the CC. It comes in the form of a pre contractual agreement which should be delivered to the borrower before they enter into the agreement formally. This is a requirement and can render an agreement unenforceable if not complied with if it was executed before 2007 and is under 25k.

 

The section 58 notice also stops the creditor form legally contacting the borrower until the period is over, although it does not work the other way around. Many of these agreements were flawed, really it would be better to see it to give a proper opinion. APR is not a prescribed term so is not a term which effects enforceability.

[Baz1994]

Regarding secret commission's claims, these have ben brought before against welcome, the sticking point ha been proving that the broker had a fiduciary duty to the debtor rather than jsut to the creditor.

 

A belated cheers Dogeball, missed your post.

 

Recently received a letter from FOS regarding my PPI claim with Welcome and they are reconsidering my complaint due to the court ruling of Plevin vs Paragon.

 

Not holding out much hope though as I had previously tried to obtain Underwriting sheets but could only prove hidden commissions / brokerage between broker and lender.

[dx100uk]

You always find that the more aggro welcome caused

The weaker their case is

 

It's a well known fact the nearly all 2nd or third charge loans were totally unlawful

 

They pulled every stunt they could to get extra money

And then would hassle nearly every month to make sure they got the money

 

From what I've seen and heard

 

Your agreement is as all those hidden welcome finance secured loans through 'spoof' brokers totally bogpaper

 

Dx

[Baz1994]

Hi

On a second charge Mortgage the cooling off period is supplied via section 58 of the CC. It comes in the form of a pre contractual agreement which should be delivered to the borrower before they enter into the agreement formally. This is a requirement and can render an agreement unenforceable if not complied with if it was executed before 2007 and is under 25k.

 

The section 58 notice also stops the creditor form legally contacting the borrower until the period is over, although it does not work the other way around. Many of these agreements were flawed, really it would be better to see it to give a proper opinion. APR is not a prescribed term so is not a term which effects enforceability.

 

OK dodgeball thanks but cannot submit attachments at the moment - don't know why ? Is there a limit as seems to be restricting me.

 

I am sure I posted up details on another issue including edited Legal Charge details.

 

You always find that the more aggro welcome caused

The weaker their case is

 

It's a well known fact the nearly all 2nd or third charge loans were totally unlawful

 

They pulled every stunt they could to get extra money

And then would hassle nearly every month to make sure they got the money

 

From what I've seen and heard

 

Your agreement is as all those hidden welcome finance secured loans through 'spoof' brokers totally bogpaper

 

Dx

 

Thanks dx

 

It's just knowing what to put to them in my defence and backed by relevant evidence / law.

 

It just doesn't seem right when looking at the grand scheme of things.

[dx100uk]

OK dodgeball thanks but cannot submit attachments at the moment - don't know why ? Is there a limit as seems to be restricting me.

 

I am sure I posted up details on another issue including edited Legal Charge details.

 

 

yes you are out of space here

 

go to User Panel

 

Scroll down left hand side - Miscellaneous > attachments . He will then see all his attachments. He just needs to click and delete those he no longer requires.

 

and kill some of the very early ones.

[Peterbard]

Many welcome agreements breached prescribed term requirements regarding charge for credit issues,

there is a few on here although not lately, I think.

 

The secret commission angle has been harder to prove.

 

 

The relavant part is showing that the broker owed a fiduciary duty to the debtor,

 

 

many still quote Hurstanger but this has been superseded and now all the creditor has to do it seems

is show that the mention of a broker fee was in the pre contractual pack

[dx100uk]

Thanks dx

 

It's just knowing what to put to them in my defence and backed by relevant evidence / law.

 

It just doesn't seem right when looking at the grand scheme of things.

 

 

welcome and those words in the same sentence just don't mix.

 

 

all your relevant threads are now merged too

 

 

the MIF stuff is up the top dx

[Baz1994]

yes you are out of space here

 

go to User Panel

 

Scroll down left hand side - Miscellaneous > attachments . He will then see all his attachments. He just needs to click and delete those he no longer requires.

 

and kill some of the very early ones.

 

OK dx cheers and will do

 

welcome and those words in the same sentence just don't mix.

 

all your relevant threads are now merged too

 

the MIF stuff is up the top dx

 

Thanks again dx

 

Legal Charge, Agreement and Insurance sheet now attached.

 

Thanks again

[Peterbard]

They have included the PPI in the credit which indicates that this should have been an optional charge.

 

Just needs the figures checking now to see if they are in the right place and also to see if they have charged interest in some of the charges for credit items. back to you later.

[Baz1994]

They have included the PPI in the credit which indicates that this should have been an optional charge.

 

Just needs the figures checking now to see if they are in the right place and also to see if they have charged interest in some of the charges for credit items. back to you later.

 

Many thanks dodgeball.

 

Would appreciate your feedback.

 

Just another thought, should there not be two separate agreements with their own prescribed terms.

One for the actual loan and another for the PPI, Fees and MIF (muLtiple agreements under section 18 CCA 1974) ?

 

And how do they calculate the APR figure of 20.1% ?

[Peterbard]

Section 18 is unlikely to be effective since heath and subsequent judgements, many have tried.

 

Unfortunately as far as I can see the rest of the figures look Kosher, however I will double check the APR which is a tad out but within the limits defined in the total charge for credit 1980 regs.

[Baz1994]

Thanks again Dodgeball

 

What about the Legal Charge - No agreement number or dates including dated signature provided.

 

Charge was registered on 14.11.03

 

Loan taken 10.11.03

 

I have attached cooling off period details.

[Peterbard]

Yes unfortunately the charge is independent of the agreement in that respect. Have you checked if the charge is on your property deed or not. You can do so by going to the registry page and accessing it on line there is a fee of £3 which you pay by card.

 

the "cooling off period" is a little misleading I have always thought because it is easily confused with the cancellation period. The cooling off period is where you decide not to take out the loan, whereas a cancellation period is when you can cancel an agreement after it ahas been signed, there is no cancellation period on a second charge mortgage.

[Baz1994]

Ok Dodgeball all a little confusing.

 

Yes I had already checked and is on there for a third charge for Progressive Financial Services but no record for the loan on my recent Credit File.

 

What concerns me is that the "Cooling off Period" terms state that Welcome are not allowed to contact me during cooling off period.

 

Now we signed and sent agreement back dated 10th November 2003, yet I have telecon details (provided by them) that they contacted us on the 7th & 13th November 2003.

 

Also is a Secured Personal loan a charge on the property or still another mortgage ?

 

Many welcome agreements breached prescribed term requirements regarding charge for credit issues,

there is a few on here although not lately, I think.

 

The secret commission angle has been harder to prove.

 

The relavant part is showing that the broker owed a fiduciary duty to the debtor,

 

many still quote Hurstanger but this has been superseded and now all the creditor has to do it seems

is show that the mention of a broker fee was in the pre contractual pack

 

So what about non-disclosure of commissions in respect of PPI + Acceptance fee ?

 

I have evidence of this from my SAR in which we were never previously made aware of at the point of sale.

[Peterbard]

Acceptance fee is OK, as long as it is included within the charge for credit and not the total credit figure.

There has been a couple of cases where commission have been reclaimed, if it was disproportionate to the value of the cover where did this charge appear under the agreement, was it part of the price of the ppi ?

[Baz1994]

Sorry Dodgeball (sorry to sound thick) but when you say that its included within the charge of credit, do you mean showing separate to insurance / MIF and actual loan figure ?

 

i.e. Credit £12,000

PPI £2,142.43

MIF £1,320

Fee £235

 

Total £15,697.43

 

There's no mention of it in the agreement and we were not told, yet I now have evidence of brokerage / commissions transferred between the lender and broker.

 

It's just a pity I couldn't get an Underwriting sheet and I did contact Norwich Union / AVIVA with a policy number but they had no records or even recognised the reference used. Was there ever a policy in the first place I wonder.

 

Did anybody ever make a claim against it through the policy administrator Direct Group I wonder - I would be interested to know.

 

Also I was wondering why they decided to freeze the interest after my various complaints. Did not really give me an explanation ?

[Peterbard]

Sorry.

Is the breakdown you show is the brokerage fee included within the cost of the £2142 or is it an extra charge which is probably hidden in the charge for credit along with interest fees etc.

[Baz1994]

Apologies Dodgeball for the delay in my response was on nights and had to shoot off.

 

The only mentioned fee on the agreement was in respect of the acceptance fee £235.00 in which was charged for their credit counselling.

 

The agreement clearly states that the amount for £2,142.43 is in respect of Optional Payment Protection and no mention anywhere that there were commission / brokerage taken from this amount. It was never disclosed to us at the point of sale.

 

It was only when I requested data protection details that the relevant sheets for commission and brokerage were disclosed.

 

I hope I have made myself clear as all a bit confusing.

 

Cheers

 

They were taken from the insurance amount £2,142.43 plus Acceptance Fee £235.00 excluding the MIF total.

 

Hi all,

 

I've been reading many threads online about Welcome finance, and as I have a securered laon with them (we live and learn), I wanted to get a thread up on my secured loan.

 

Took it out around 2008 for £15k, paying around £330 back per month.

Approx 2 years ago I started to claim back PPI which in the end came to about £6k which they took off my balance.

 

 

3 months ago I received another letter from them saying they have not maintained their requirements by not sending me statements freaquent enough, and they have kindly taken £3k off my balance and reduced the APR to 0%.

 

It sounds all good as now there is light at the end of tbe tunnel and I have about 18 more payments remaining, balance is approx £7500.

 

Has anyone else received the same deductions as I have and APR dropped to 0%?

 

Based on all what I've been reading online about Welcome for some reason I'm feeling paranoid about the balance left and remaining payments, thinking should I have to pay them ( to confirm I will be maintaining the payments), and how honest is the actual loan?

 

Hi Mike,

 

I have just come across your old post whilst searching various Welcome issues on CAG.

 

Well all I can tell you about mine was that I submitted two complaints regarding mis-sale of PPI and lack of and delay of data protection details.

 

My PPI was rejected and has been with the ombudsman for nearly two years now and the other is also with FOS in which they are still looking at.

 

In the meantime I got another response from Welcome freezing the interest to 0% but they did not say why but only that it would save me £10,000 in the long run ? There has been a few issues with missing statements and incorrect amount stated on those statements received but they put it down to a IT hitch in their system.

 

Now if it was in respect of lack of statements then the interest for the years concerned total approx £7,500, so why was this not deducted from the balance ? The more I look into it, I may have to ask a few more questions for clarity.

 

Don't get me wrong I am not looking a gift horse in the mouth but whose to say they sell my loan and whoever reinstates the interest ! Would I have been in a better position to have the mentioned amount deducted but still pay interest on what was left ?

 

I had an old small arrears amount but they supposedly think it's double but cannot provide evidence so on the part it's still in dispute.

 

I am still paying current payments to date but the more I look at the agreement details etc and what happened above I am becoming slightly suspicious with the legalities.

 

Did you complain about lack of statements and were you aware that they were missing ?

 

Did Welcome state which were not sent and what years ?

 

I would be interested to know as may assist me going forward with my further complaint.

 

Cheers

[Peterbard]

I see so the actual cost of the insurance was 2142 - the insurance brokerage fees ?

How much were the fees and were these itemised as just for brokering the PPI or the whole loan.

Sorry for the questions but there has to be a clear picture as the line between what is legal and what is not is quite fine.

 

The PPI is listed in the credit as it should be if it is an optional charge, whereas the acceptance fee is listed in amongst the charge for credit (the interest etc) which it also should be because it is an amount that you must pay in order to procure the loan.

[Baz1994]

Cheers again Dodgeball and no worries.

 

On the sheets submitted as part of SAR it states :-

 

Cash Advance £12,000

 

Total Advance Less MIF £14,377.43

 

Commission £1,437.74

 

Then there's another sheet headed broker details

 

Total Commission amount £1,437.74

 

Broker Commission £718.17

 

There is no mention of insurance brokerage fees but only commission amounts in which also includes share of the Acceptance Fee.

 

If you want me to post up all details I can edit them but I have attached one of the sheets.

 

Also trying to locate that Welcome loan or similar calculator link but cannot trace it.

 

Can anyone help please, just need to check figures.

 

Thanks

[Peterbard]

Thus is one if the ones I use http://www.financecalcs.co.uk/Calcs/Settlement.php

 

the "amount of loan" is the amount of credit £14142.43

 

All repayments are the same and you want to see the result for full term so enter 180 in term run it gives a APR of 20.1 which is correct as far as it goes.