Old Debts - Debt Collection Agencies

[gibson71]

I'm new here so not sure if I'm posting this in the right place.

I need some advice please regarding two old debts.

 

One is a CCA debt, a loan originally taken out with Sainsbury's Bank well over ten years ago now.

 

We defaulted on this loan around 2008 I think.

Sainsbury's started court proceedings and wanted an order for sale of our house

to which I responded that we had other creditors so it was unfair to them.

 

I got advice from a credit counselling service and she said to offer token payments to all creditors.

 

A few years back we received a letter from Arrow Global saying the Sainsbury's debt had been assigned to them

and for us to send payments to Restons Solicitors

 

we have been paying them token payments, although we have received nothing more since from either Restons or Arrow Global.

 

Surely they are breaching the CCA by not providing six monthly statements?

 

The other debt is an old overdraft with Lloyds Bank

- the token payments are going to Robinson Way but I don't know if Lloyds still own the debt and whether it is just being collected by Robinson Way.

 

Because it's not a CCA I don't know if there's anything I can do to check whether they are authorised to be taking our money.

 

We historically had two credit cards too which we defaulted on in 2008 but these I should imagine are statute barred by now.

 

The reason I am querying the Sainsbury's and Lloyds debts now is that I recently checked with all three of the credit reference agencies and none of them show these two debts.

 

Experian have told me that even though debts do not show on credit reports does not mean they are not owed.

 

I would like to get advice though as to whether I am paying money unnecessarily.

 

I don't trust debt collection agencies to act reasonably and fairly as we have had a lot of harassment in the past.

 

Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

[dx100uk]

I'd certainly stop paying the OD...seems like you are being cash cowed

 

As for the court one....was there a ccj granted?

 

Dx

[gibson71]

of? What does this stand for?

I presume you mean the Lloyds overdraft debt?

 

The Sainsbury's debt when they brought court proceedings I offered token repayments and they withdrew with a court order.

 

I think it was purely a matter of keeping the debt open as it was quite a large amount, around £18,000.

[dx100uk]

Sri yes od silly spell checker.

 

So you have not got a ccj?

 

If so I'd send arrows a CCA request could be unenforceable?

 

Have you ever done an sar looking for penalty charges and PPI on the card?

 

Dx

[gibson71]

Thanks - do you have a template for the CCA letter I need to send? I haven't done a SAR for penalty charges and PPI as it wasn't a card, just a normal personal loan.

 

With regard to the overdraft debt, you think I should just stop and see what happens? Robinson Way are pretty aggressive, they write every month to remind me to pay!

[dx100uk]

CCA request

sar

 

 

both are click me links!!

 

 

read the full threads first

[gibson71]

Thanks DX, will send a CCA request to Arrow.

 

 

What about the Lloyds overdraft debt?

 

 

You said I should stop paying

but what do I do when Robinson Way writes to chase for non-payment?

 

 

As it's not a CCA, I can't send a CCA request.

 

 

What else can I do?

 

 

Can I just simply ask for any documentation relating to the overdraft?

[dx100uk]

it might pay you to sar Lloyds.

 

 

get all the facts

 

 

then you are one up on them.

 

 

prob find all manner of OD charges that if push came to shove

could severely dent any case robbersway might start.

 

 

when the od from?

how long did you have the account?

how big is the debt?

 

 

how much have you paid robbers over the years?

 

 

dx

[gibson71]

Looks like a SAR is pretty expensive, much more than I'm currently giving Robinson Way. I had the account for many years, it was opened back in 1989. Not sure how long ago the overdraft was from but at least 15 years or so. The debt is around £6,500.

[Old Cogger]

S.A..R. is . = £10.00

[gibson71]

Thank you Old Cogger, that is quite expensive given that I am only paying Robinson Way £2 per month.

[Old Cogger]

SAR is a complete pack of information they hold on you for £10.00 and they have up to 40 days to supply all the information held on you,

 

it will tell you if you have PPI and charges which you may be able to claim back with interest, Not a permanent monthly payment facility, you may be being cash cowed by them, i.e paying them when you do not have to, send SAR request and find out.

[gibson71]

Hi there,

 

I have a question I hope somebody can help me with.

 

 

We have been paying a historic debt originally with Sainsbury's Bank,

a personal loan, jointly with my husband.

 

 

The debt itself has since fallen off our credit records.

We stopped paying it briefly and Sainsbury's Bank issued court proceedings.

 

After advice from a debt counselling service we offered a nominal amount of £1 per month and this has been paid ever since.

 

 

A couple of years ago the debt was assigned to Arrow Global who have not provided any statements thus far which I believe they are required to do.

 

We have been paying our £1 per month to Restons Solicitors on behalf of Arrow Global.

I enquired on this forum recently regarding the debt and I was advised to send a CCA request

- Restons have responded that they are not required to provide a CCA as our liability has already been determined

when the Court awarded judgment back in 2009.

 

 

They have sent back our £1 postal order sent with the CCA request

and Arrow Global have sought an urgent review of our circumstances

and want an offer of payment plus a income and expenditure questionnaire returned by 15 December.

 

They have also provided a statement for the period since Arrow Global took the debt over.

Are they correct in their assertion that we are not entitled to a CCA from them?

 

I thought that without a copy of the CCA being provided they were not entitled to collect the money from us.

 

 

Please advise as I am totally confused and don't know where we stand.

 

 

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide.

Edited December 3, 2015 by citizenB
formatting

[citizenB]

Restons are correct in that a "new agreement" was formed when the judgment was awarded in the Claimant's favour, however I believe you are still entitled to see a copy of the original agreement.

 

You will need to send your request to the original creditor - Sainsbury's bank, I would think.

 

You MUST continue to pay the £1.00 if this was what the court agreed.

 

Do you still have a copy of the Judgment ? Does it mention the requirement of a review ? If not, then it might be that they need to apply to the court to change the repayment terms of the judgment.

[citizenB]

You are correct in that they are obliged to send you a statement of account and you can ask them for this. I am not sure if they have to provide them monthly, but at the very least a couple of times a year I would have thought.

[gibson71]

Surely a CCA to Arrow/Restons is still relevant if they now own the debt?

If they can't provide the CCA then surely they are not legally entitled to pursue the money?

 

 

The court judgment was in favour of Sainsbury's though and not Arrow.

 

 

I don't unfortunately have a copy so not sure whether a review is mentioned.

I believe statements are meant to be provided every six months

and this has never happened since the assignment which seems dodgy to me.

[citizenB]

Surely a CCA to Arrow/Restons is still relevant if they now own the debt? If they can't provide the CCA then surely they are not legally entitled to pursue the money? The court judgment was in favour of Sainsbury's though and not Arrow. I don't unfortunately have a copy so not sure whether a review is mentioned. I believe statements are meant to be provided every six months and this has never happened since the assignment which seems dodgy to me.

 

Sorry, no, the Judgment replaced the original agreement. It looks to me as though, having obtained a Judgment against you, Sainsbury then sold/assigned the account to Arrow Global - did you receive a Notice of Assignment ? In which case they are entitled to pursue the debt. However, if the Judgment did not mention a review then pestering you for financial updates might be out of order. I suspect also that they would need to refer back to the court if they want to increase payments and no review was mentioned.

 

Perhaps contact the court and ask for a copy.

 

You could always send a Subject Access Request to Sainsbury - they should have a copy of this.

[renegadeimp]

id check to see if theyve actually had their name put on the CCJ and not just saying it. Too many times theyve tried to bluff debtors when legally they cant do anything at all. They may own the debt, but if they arent named on the judgement then theres nothing they can do legally to get money from you.

[intend]

You need to get a copy of the judgement before proceeding - should give details of who you need to pay how much and more importantly info re a review.

[dx100uk]

old and new threads merged.

[gibson71]

id check to see if theyve actually had their name put on the CCJ and not just saying it. Too many times theyve tried to bluff debtors when legally they cant do anything at all. They may own the debt, but if they arent named on the judgement then theres nothing they can do legally to get money from you.

 

I am not entirely sure that it was an actual CCJ.

 

 

Sainsbury's brought proceedings,

wanted an order for possession on our property

which I argued was unfair to our other creditors

and then they settled for my offer of £1 per month.

 

 

They prepared a court order agreeing to the £1 per month, not sure that is a CCJ?

 

 

If Sainsbury's sold the debt on to Arrow,

are Arrow definitely able to enforce the debt?

 

 

I am getting mixed messages as to whether they can or not.

 

 

Does a notice of assignment from Arrow in 2013 entitle them to pursue the debt?

They do not send six monthly statements,

I understand that to be a breach of the Consumer Credit Act.

[dx100uk]

I would suspect there is a judgement

and you did a tomlin/consent order.

 

 

so that negates the need for a CCA

and to send any statements.

 

 

I take it these latest letters have referred to there being a known CCJ from their side?

[gibson71]

I would suspect there is a judgement

and you did a tomlin/consent order.

 

 

so that negates the need for a CCA

and to send any statements.

 

 

I take it these latest letters have referred to there being a known CCJ from their side?

 

Restons have said "There is no requirement for Arrow Global Limited to provide you with a Credit Agreement as your liability has already been determined when the Court awarded Judgment in this claim (claim number: xxxx)." This Judgment though was in favour of Sainsbury's Bank back in 2009. Do Arrow get the benefit of that Judgment?

[dx100uk]

sadly if you automatically/blindly simply changed who you paid

from Sainsbury to restons/arrows without question then yes they do.

[gibson71]

I presume Restons/Arrow can't report the debt and place it back on our reports with the credit reference agencies? It has dropped off of all three agencies as of this year which is very helpful.