Park With Ease/Gladstone's Claim Form - Lake District

[DragonFly1967]

Shouldn't that be...

 

notice to keeper' was received by the registered keeper of the vehicle after the period of 14 days had expired CONTRARY TO the regulations of the Protections of Freedom Act 2012 Schedule 4 section 9 (5).

 

 

 

NB/ Thereby rendering any alleged charge against the vehicle keeper unenforceable by means of the POFA

[Anon987]

Thank you - does anyone else think I should add anything?

 

Or just submit it as above with the changes?

[ericsbrother]

no, you will get the chance to add all of the detail when you exchange documents later.

[Anon987]

I am struggling with how to word the request for information under CPR 31.15.

 

 

I have used the template provided on this website, but have come stuck at this point

 

 

template removed please don't templates in the open forum - dx

[ericsbrother]

you have answered you own question, as the PoFA hasnt been adhered to what else do they rely on to show you are the debtor.

[Anon987]

Sorry for posting the template.

 

Sorry ericsbrother I am still confused on how to word it? Sorry if I am being thick!

 

Also received some correspondence today:

 

1st letter: from Gladstones saying that they have notified the court of our client's intention to proceed the claim. Enclosed with the letter is PWE completed Directions Questionnaire. They say that they request a special direction - that the case be dealt with on the papers and without the need for an oral hearing. This request is sought because the matter is in our client's opinion relatively straightforward.

 

They also say that they have elected not to meidate. it then says - Notwithstanding this, our Client would be happy to listen to any genuine payment proposals that you wish to put forward.

 

Do you need to know how they have filled in the form?

 

2nd letter: Notice of proposed allocation to the small claims track.

 

Notice that: This is a defended claim

 

It appears suitable to small claims track.

 

And then enclosed is a form N180 and asked to be filed it with the court office by a certain date.

 

Any advice on how best to fill this in? Or anywhere on this site which may help?

Edited November 4, 2015 by Anon987

[ericsbrother]

No, make them turn up,

they dont want to do this as they ahve to travel to your nearest court and if they lose it will cost them a fortune

where a paper hearing will cost them nothing.

 

 

No mediation as that really only applies when there is an argument about how much is claimed and agreed or denied

such as you suing a builder for shoddy work and he says that you owe somehting for the bits that arent rubbish.

 

Fill out the N180 and tick box for local court and let them know of any holiday dates.

 

as for your difficulty in composing a letter, you have written it out in your posts above.

 

"I write for the following information under CPR 31.15.

As the requirements for keeper libility under the PoFA 2012 have not been adhered to the defendant requires "strict proof"

of the basis of claim and proof of who was driving at the time.

 

 

I also require sight of the contract between the landowner and PWE to show the assignment of the right to eneter contracts with the motorist

and to make claims in the civil court in their own name.

Please supply me with copies of this within 14 days."

 

They will try and say that it is not a matter of discovery as it will be small claims

but that is not determined yet so they should adhere to the regs.

 

 

If they dont then when you write your full defence out you bring this to the attention of the judge

and say that you will require an adjournment of any hearing until such documents have been made available

and you have had time to read and respond to them.

 

 

Judges hate solicitors wasting their time in matter like this as they know better

so you are likely to get the info you need when they receive the copy of your complaint to the court

(you have to copy them in) whcih you will send 16 days after the CPR 31.15.

The court will not acknowledge your letter but it will go in the file so the judge will be reading it later.

 

 

Some are busier than others so if your file is not read until the day before you may not get the documents

but PWE and Gladstones will have their evidence struck out or severely curtailed according to how the judge deems it relevant.

[Anon987]

Do I need to make it clear that I want a hearing? At the end of their form they printed in big letter - REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL DIRECTION - The matter will be considered in paperwork without a hearing....

 

Should I do something similar?

[ericsbrother]

no, that will be done automatically when the allocation is decided as long as you tick the box saying defend in full and dont agree to mediation. It will be heard at your local court and whatever Gladstones put in a letter to you will have no influence whatsoever on the computer that churns out the letters but there are procedures that allow for other tracks to be followed so you can go for multitrack if you fancy a claim against them for discrimination but it can get expensive if you lose as all costs are then up for recovery.

[Anon987]

Received a notice from the Court.

 

 

They have encouraged me to go through the mediation service.

 

 

It then says for the parties to settle via negotiation

 

 

.It then gives details of prep for the hearing, which I am sure are quite standard.

 

 

I haven't received a reply from my letter requesting for information under CPR 31.15

- should I write again??

Is there anything anyone can suggest to do?

I would have thought that PWE would have given up rather than go to Court?

[ericsbrother]

No, they have paid Gladstones about £500 for the priviledge of getting the chance to lose more money so they want you to subsidise this.

 

 

Decline the mediation as it wont do any harm to do so and can never do you any good to accept.

 

 

When you send the rejection letter back add another letter to reiterate that they have failed to show a basis of claim as per CPR 31.15

and request that the claim is struck out as having no cause for action against you as there is no keeper liability under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

 

This letter may well not get read until it is plonked in front of a judge just before the actual hearing date

so dont despair if you hear nothing but you may well get another directions order where this it examined in front of a judge

(I had that and the other party failed to attend the hearing so they had their claim struck out)

[Anon987]

Many thanks ericsrbrother

- so letter to the Court rejecting the mediation

- do I need to send a copy to PWE?

 

 

And then a letter to PWE (copy to the Court) reiterating the CPR point?

[ericsbrother]

send copy to Gladstones ( they will then charge PWE for reading it) so you look whiter than white.

 

 

Under other circumstances the penny may drop and the solicitors tell their client to discontinue

but as Gladstones are the IPC they want to try and show that they are the big boys of the parking world

so will advise their clients to continue to pump money into a lost cause.

 

 

however, this is not your worry, you have warned them.

[caro]

No, they have paid Gladstones about £500 for the priviledge of getting the chance to lose more money so they want you to subsidise this.

 

 

Decline the mediation as it wont do any harm to do so and can never do you any good to accept.

 

 

When you send the rejection letter back add another letter to reiterate that they have failed to show a basis of claim as per CPR 31.15

and request that the claim is struck out as having no cause for action against you as there is no keeper liability under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

 

This letter may well not get read until it is plonked in front of a judge just before the actual hearing date

so dont despair if you hear nothing but you may well get another directions order where this it examined in front of a judge

(I had that and the other party failed to attend the hearing so they had their claim struck out)

 

Mediation can be used in Anon's favour making him look reasonable to the judge by trying to avoid wasting the court's time.

 

If PWE refuse to settle and go on to court and lose (as they surely would) the judge will be very unimpressed.

 

During mediation Anon can point out their lack of evidence or cause of action and suggest they drop it. Could save him having to go to court but if pwe don't play ball there's nothing lost.

[ericsbrother]

PWE are the ones requesting mediation as they know they dont have a leg to stand on and hope to salvage something. I do not think that it is meaningful but as long as the OP denies any liability whatsoever then the go-between will have to give up and say a conclusion cannot be reached by this method.

Mediation is usually used when you sue your builder for doing a dodgy job and he counterclaims for works done but not specified and it all gets confused. With straightforward denials of any monies being due they dont normally request thsi unless you have ticked the box or failed to tick the box saying it is inappropriate.

[caro]

Quite likely it is a last ditch attempt for PWE to get some dosh, but what harm can it do, especially if they are made to see it's pointless to proceed. Could be they'd discontinue.

 

I'm not saying one way is right or another wrong, but looking at options to be considered. I have no experience in this area but I have seen cases where mediation has worked, albeit not in the parking forum where I know you have a great deal of experience.

[Anon987]

I have received the witness statement from the solicitor

 

They state that I am not being pursued as the keeper of the vehicle but as the driver and that the timeframes in POFA 2012 do not apply

 

.They have copied some comments from a similar website to this one saying that it confirms who I am for 2 reasons

 

- 1 that the user name incorporates part of my name.

2 that the wording of the defence is the same as the one which was posted on this forum.

 

in the forum post which they attach it says the words

 

"I did park in the car park" and say that it is then clearly me who was driving the car

 

.I have to careful with what I say on here

- but what affect will this have on my case?

 

They also state that CPR 31.15 does not apply in this case

- 1 it does not apply to small claims and

2 dosent impose the right that the defendant suggests it does.

[armadillo71]

You may wish to contact the Parking Prankster....

 

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/independent-parking-committee-operator.html

[dx100uk]

Std willy waving to unsettle a defendant

 

Doesn't matter what rubbish they find on any forum

 

Dx

[ericsbrother]

They dont decide the track the courts may take so a 31.14 or 31.15 request is valid and you can complain to the court if they dont comply. It wont do them any good as they will ahve to produce their evidence in their document pack.

As for the rest, they know that they dont have a leg to stand on chasing the keeper so are happy to make up anything to get you to give in. As armadillo points out, the prankster has a blog entry where they were royally stuffed so read it and take note af what did for them.

[Anon987]

So just keep it simple to the Court and for the hearing - saying that the notice to keeper was sent after 14 days of the incident and therefore doesn't apply?Also, what are the parameters for the law to stick regarding chasing the driver rather than the keeper? Is it hard evidence? Do they have similar time constraints? I thought that they had to put the notice on the car at the time or rely on the keeper confirming who the driver was?Will check out the parking prankster, thanks all

[Anon987]

Also, if the solicitors try to contact me before the hearing, should I respond?

[ericsbrother]

If they do it means that they know that they arent going to win so want to get you to settle for a smaller sum.

 

If you respond it can be used against you as an admission of liability so I wouldnt if I were you.

 

The driver liability is for 6 years after the event as is any cause of action

They are going to try and claim that they know you are the driver so the PoFa doesnt apply.

 

How do they know you are the driver- they are hoping that they can persuade the judge on "balance of probabilities"

and hope that you say something that makes the judge lean towards them being right or more honest a witness rather

than actually admitting it is for them to prove that YOU entered into a contract.

 

You must read the parking prankster's blog about PWE at this site and Gladstones behaviour

as they are the soles directors of the IPA so very much a conflict of interest.

 

Sne your CPR 31.15 to PWE and if they dont produce the required paperwork

write to the court and ask for the claim to be struck out as PWE have not produced any evidence of locus standi nor cause of action.

 

You wont get a response but the judge will read the paperwork beforehand

and then have it in their mind as to who is being truthful and open.

 

Quote any other claims made by PWE/Gladstones as these can be used against them.

 

Again the parking prankster can help as the case numbers etc are public domain so no reason not to hand what he knows over.

 

Another thing, this is being driven by Gladstones as they need to show that the IPC is worth joining rather then the BPA so they are after a win in court.

 

 

They have so far failed to produce the goods for their clients but earn money for representing them so they dont suffer when they lose.

 

 

If they consistently lose then the parking co's are going to lose faith and that is why they will try anything to make you give up.

[Anon987]

I am a bit nervous about it all

- scared that I will be tied up into saying something which I don't mean.

 

 

Is there a link to the blog about PWE - I cant seem to find it!

 

 

The hearing is soon so im not sure if sending anything to the court will help matters now will it?

[caro]

See armadillo's post of 27th jan above for a link.

 

Do not speak to them before you go to court. Tell them you want everything in writing. It is best to write to the court if they don't comply with your requests, sending Gladstone's a copy, so the judge has a chance to read it before the case, and possibly even make an order in advance to make them comply.

 

If it really is too late to do this, take it with you on the day.