HSBC Default

[rosierose]

Got this today...

 

Dear Rosie

 

I can now confirm the (Rosie's) branch have completed their search but unfortunately have been unable to locate the original signed agreements.

 

However we have aexceptionally agreed to delete the default entry registration with the Credit Reference Agencies and my colleagues in Debt Recovery Services Mangement Centre are currently arranging this.

 

I trust this meets with your approval.

 

Your Sincerely

 

Which is, I hope, of use to all of us with defaults registered against us but no agreement to back it up.

[Tinkerbelle]

Excellent News!

 

Well done!

[rosierose]

Thanks Tink

 

One down, two to go....

 

MBNA can't find their agreement either so, hopefully that should be resolved shortly.

 

Orange are next.... New thread shortly.

[LeeS80]

Hi rosierosie,

 

Well done getting the default removed, it probably helped that it was so old and they couldn't find the agreement. I'm in the same boat with HFC, they have a defaulted registered on settled account but can't provide agreement to say it ever exisited!

 

Cheers,

Lee

[Allyxia]

Well done Rosie!!!

 

Good luck on the next one

[rosierose]

Hi Lee. Indeed it did. They really have no business processing data without a contract. This really leaves them in a double bind as they are required to process data in some respects, but without a contract they must cease

 

and Thanks Allyxia I hope your efforts will be coming to fruition soon

[Allyxia]

Oh yes hun forgot to tell you 3 defaults all gone and one CCJ gone!

 

Which leave one.....

 

Just blooing Open Uni £204 which turned five years old today guys 1...2...3... Happy birthday.......

 

So after reading your thread i realised i have never had a copy of the original default notice only the credit agreement......

 

Anyway i have sent them a letter giving 14 days notice tick tock tick tock

[ClintMccutcheon]

I hope my case against HSBC follows this same route!

 

Excellent outcome here

[spoogewhale]

Rosie,

 

I have the same situation with a HSBC account closed in 2004. I am also claiming back charges on this account, but will send SB's letter also.

 

What is the best address to send it to?

 

Cheers

[rosierose]

I sent mine originally to the Company Secretary @ Canada Sq, but later correspondance all went to:

 

Group Data Protection Office

HSBC Bank plc

8 Canada Square

London E14 5HQ

[spoogewhale]

Excellent,

 

Thanks for that, I have sent my first letter to the company secretary, so shall see what happens. A quick resolution would be great, but as long as they get knocked off I will be chuffed!

[ClintMccutcheon]

I sent my first letter on the 18th, no correspondance yet!

 

Does that not break a section of the banking code?

[rosierose]

Clint - I think they may have untill Wednesday. If you leave a couple of days for delivery and then 5 working days plus another couple for their reply to be delivered, then you end up with the 31st.

 

Not that they tend to adhere to the code too rigourously anyway

 

Cheers

Rosie

[ClintMccutcheon]

Fair enough! i somehow gathered that they wouldnt

 

Seeing as i opened the account in 2002, im hoping my situation 'may' follow yours, above all i just want the damn default removed, i cant believe that one mistake from my student days could wreck my life so much!

[Guest Alison82]

Does this count for somthing that was applied for online??

[Tangliss]

Rosie, fristly well done on getting your default with HSBC removed.

 

I am in the same boat as you, yesterday I received the exact same response from HSBC after sending SB's letter. I am now going to send a similar letter to the one you wrote, but was wondering how long should I give them to reply? Is there anything else I should attach to the letter?

[rosierose]

Thanks, Tangliss. I was fairly pleased myself.

 

In theory, they are required by the Banking Code to acknoweldge your letter in no more than 5 working days. They did take a good while to respond when looking for the agreement. But, in fairness, HSBC were fairly efficient in comparisson to some I've been dealing with lately. Not mentioning any names... Oh well... HBOS.

 

Good luck with it. Post your response when you get it.

 

Rosie

[Tangliss]

Thanks Rosie, I will do

[ClintMccutcheon]

Rosie, with your permission could i posibly post my response from HSBC in here for you to look at? And ill post my response im writing now as they have come back with a letter with no substance to it at all, and i feel im banging my head against a brick wall and i would love to shift to the route you have taken (asked for the T&C you signed up to)

 

Without your permission i wont post as i have no intention to hi-jck

 

Many thanks

Clint

[rosierose]

By all means, Clint.

 

Sorry I haven't posted sooner. We've been on hol's this week to windswept Cornwall.

 

Rosie

[ClintMccutcheon]

Nice down that way!

 

I could do with a break!

 

Basically i recieved a 'sod off' letter, to the tune of:

 

Dear

 

Thank you for your letter dated 17th January 2007, regarding your account. I am sorry that you are unhappy with our previous response.

 

The facility in question was an overdraft. Unlike loans the process of demanding repayment of an overdraft does not require a notice of default and our records show that a letter demanding repayment of the overdraft was sent to you on the 7th january 2005.

 

You have made formal request under section 10 of the data protection act 1998 (DPA9 that HSBC ceases and/or does not begin to process personal data that is likely to cause damage or distress. I regret that having sought guidance from its legal advisers, HSBC is unable to comply with your request and is satisfied tht the processing of personal data by HSBC and the credit reference agencies complies fully with the requirements of the DPA98. The reasons are set out below:

 

The fact that HSBC along with all otherd leading lenders shares customer data with credit reference agencies is clearly stated in application forms and terms and conditions. A copy of the current terms and conditions and a more detailed explanation of the use made within the financial services industry of credit reference agency data entitled "Credit Scoring what is it?" is enclosed. Similar terms would have applied at the time you held your account with HSBC and acceptance of these terms would have been a pre-condition for opening your account.

 

The sharing of information about customer defaults between lenders via credit reference agencies is a legitimate process subject to strict rules which ensure compliance with the DPA98 and other legal and regulatory requirements. The sharing of such data to ensure that excessive credit is not made available to those already in financil difficulties and/or have previously demonstrated their inability to manage credit is both commercially prudent for lenders and actively encouraged by the government which is keen to avoid consumer over indebtness. Personal credit histories will be held by the credit reference agencies for up to 6 years in the case of defaults which enables lenders to obtain a long term view of prospective borrowers records.

 

Any application to a bank or other lender for credit is likely to be subject to a credit reference agency search and the potential lender will expect to see your full credit history which will include any defaults in the last 6 years. By your own admission, your management of your HSBC account was naive and unacceptable and led to HSBC making demand for repayment which you did not satisfy within the 28 days required. This forms part of your credit history and is something that other potential lenders may wish to take into consideration when decideding whether and on what terms to lend to you. The fact that you subsequently repaid the debt is reflected on the credit reference agency records and is likely to reduce the negative impact of the default.

 

As indicated previously HSBC, his (yes it says his) precluded by both the rules governing the sharing of data via credit reference agencies )And the DPA98 itself) from seeking to amend the record of your default to create an innaccurate credit history which would mislead other potential lenders.

 

I am advised that the sharing of data between HSBC and other lenders via the CRA's and the relevant retention periods comply fully with Principles 3, 4 and 5 of the DPA98. Your other comments regarding the DPA98 are noted however, i am informed they are not relevant to this issue. (NOTE - Regards to automated processing i think)

 

Thank you once again for taking the time to bring your concerns to the banks attention, i trust that this matter can now be considered concluded. If how ever you are still not satisfied the next step is outlined in our complaints leaflet given to you previously with our letter dated 15th January.

 

Yours Sincerly

(Signed letter from same person as before)

 

 

 

So i replied with this on monday:

 

Dear Mr HSBC Rep,

Thank you for your letter dated 2ndth February 2007,

I am saddened and disappointed that the reply received from you states that you will not comply with my statutory request.

I must wonder, how ever, if my letter has been read properly and fully, as many of my points raised were ignored and not responded to.

The bulk of your reply consists of informing me of how credit scoring works, and an explanation that when applying for credit, a credit check will take place. I am fully aware of the procedures of credit checking and the involvement of credit reference agencies (CRA’s) in the processing of lending decisions.

You also inform me that HSBC shares account information with the CRA’s in accordance to the terms and conditions of the account I held with you until 2003.

I am fully aware that, during the time my account was open with yourselves, you would have informed the CRA’s about my account performance, however I must re-iterate that since the account closure and the contractual relationship ending, I have withdrawn my permission for you to process in relation too and communicate my data with the CRA’s.

I am also aware that there is no statute, or legalobligation that gives HSBC the permission & right to retain and process my details in tandem with the CRA’s after the contractual relationship has ended, unless there is a term specified in the terms & conditions I signed up too.

If you aware of any such legal obligation, you will refer me to the exact statute that gives you the right to communicate my data to the CRA’s after the contract has ended.

The only legal right HSBC has to process & communicate my details to the CRA’s is that of a contractual agreement between HSBC and myself; to which I am requesting that you provide me with a signed copy of any contract that might give HSBC the right to process & communicate my data other than during its currency.

To illustrate this point, a letter released on the 6th September 2006 from the consumer compliance executive of Experian contained:

“As far as we are aware there is no specific piece of legislation that gives us the right to retain your information for 6 years from the date the account is settled”

And:

“This information would only be retained with your consent as per the terms and conditions of the particular account you held”

As of my Statutory Request pursuant to S.10 of the DPA98, I continue to contest that the processing of my data is unwarranted, and until I am in receipt of the signed contractual agreement that gives HSBC indefinite permission to process & communicate my data to the CRA’s after the contract has ended, then I must still insist on the following, on the grounds that the notice is not un-justified.

I require that (a) you cease to disclose any data to third parties not explicitly referred to under current statute, specifically including but not limited to, Equifax plc, Experian Ltd and Callcredit plc; and (b) instruct Equifax plc, Experian Ltd and Callcredit plc to remove all data pertaining to your records on me, to the extent that no data entry in relation to HSBC Bank plc will exist on my credit files.

 

 

I trust this will clarify my intent. Please understand I am attempting to resolve this situation amicably, without recourse to litigation, but should you insist upon your current course I will have no option but to issue proceedings.

I look forward to your reply and the documents requested.

 

Yours Faithfully,

Mr Clinton Mccutcheon

 

 

(hope you dont mind i used some bits from your letter)

 

So i now await a response from them regarding that letter.

 

Of interest to me was the bit stating 'as it was an overdraft default, we dont have to serve you a default notice'

 

seemed weird to me, i didnt think that was true.

 

Thanks for letting me post,

Clint

[rosierose]

I'm not quite sure as to whether they must serve a default notice for an overdraft as a small agreement under the CCA - I will have a check. But, as you say, they still need your permission to process your data in the form of a signed agreement. Out of interest, how old was the agreement?

 

Rosie

[ClintMccutcheon]

I opened the student bank account in 2002 (maybe 2003... no mustve been 2002) when i started my HND.

 

So its about 4-5 years old (i know they tend to delete stuff after 6 years).

 

Even if they provide the agreement, there wont be a clause which allows them to process my data after the contract has ended im sure, but i will await their response!

 

Many thanks

[ClintMccutcheon]

HSBC letter recieved this morning, ignoring my request for my account opening documents (and ignoring everything else...) with the following:

 

Dear Me

 

I have today recieved your letter dated 19th february. I am sorry that you once gain have had to contact us regarding this matter.

 

It is clear from your correspondance that you remain dissatisfied with the banks response. I am there for arranging for the banks final response to be issued to you from customer services department, which will enable you to refer your complaint to the ombudsman should you wish to do so.

 

I am sorry it has not been possible to resolve this matter to your satisfaction and thank you for your patience.

 

Mr HSBC Rep

 

 

 

 

Why do they keep ignoring my letters issues? Am i seriously to belive that i have exhausted their complaints department by sending 2 letters?

 

My last letter was addressed to the cutomer relation mnager as well...

 

They seem so insistent on dodging my points it makes me wonder what it is their trying to hide...

[rosierose]

Clint

 

It seems as if our friends at HSBC have had a slight turn around in policy regarding agreements and permission to process data. They have ignored your explicit request for a copy of the document that might give them permission to process your data. Although not strictly speaking liable to provide the copy, as they would be under the CCA, it can only be seen as a reasonable request in order to avoid litigation.

 

Perhaps a LBA might be in order. I'm not quite sure whather anyone here has succesfully sued on this exact matter so far. You could be a first! The other option would be the ICO, but they move so slowly... I'm still waiting for anything other than an automated response 3 months after reporting MBNA.

 

BTW, have you been writing to the Group Data Protection Office? If not I would start talking to them rather than customer services (who are a right bolshi lot!). However, if they are writing a final response then it may be too late to start that now.

 

Before issuing proceedings I would have a thorough read of the DPA, the Enterprise Act 2002 and have a look at whatever you might be able to find relating to small agreements in the CCA and later SI's.

 

Please feel free to post any findings for discussion.

 

Cheers

 

Rosie